Is it okay to break the law to enforce the law?

[Chiropteran]

Play nice in this thread.


For example:
Is it okay for a cop to speed to catch a speeder?

 

[Crono]

No.

EDIT: I think your example is bad, because speed limits are specifically for non-emergency cases.

Better example might be planting evidence

 

[her209]

Like if cops had to trespass on someone's property to catch a suspect that was running away on foot?

 

[BoomerD]

Dammit...wherre the hell is my lawnchair this morning?

 

[se7en]

Rules are made to be broken laws however are not.

With that said I voted default.

 

[se7en]

Originally posted by: her209
Like if cops had to trespass on someone's property to catch a suspect that was running away on foot?

Can cops on duty even actually trespass or can they just go where they want?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: se7en
Rules are made to be broken laws however are not.

With that said I voted default.

Surely good laws have considered the possibilities of emergencies and are written accordingly...



:laugh:

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: se7en

Originally posted by: her209
Like if cops had to trespass on someone's property to catch a suspect that was running away on foot?

Can cops on duty even actually trespass or can they just go where they want?

They can't go where they want without a warrant. Private property is still private property...

 

[Goosemaster]

http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/46.2-920.HTM

§ 46.2-920. Certain vehicles exempt from regulations in certain situations; exceptions and additional requirements.

A. The driver of any emergency vehicle, when such vehicle is being used in the performance of public services, and when such vehicle is operated under emergency conditions, may, without subjecting himself to criminal prosecution:

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: se7en

Originally posted by: her209
Like if cops had to trespass on someone's property to catch a suspect that was running away on foot?

Can cops on duty even actually trespass or can they just go where they want?

Yes, but there are provisions built into the law which allow them to do certain things. People thought of this shit well before the OP, so the police are not actually breaking laws to enforce the law.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Police aren't breaking the law when they exceed the speed limit in the execution of their duties, however when they blow by on the interstates to make a meal break or the like, they are speeding illegally. Of course no one is going to pull them over, so in this case they are effectively above the law.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/46.2-920.HTM

§ 46.2-920. Certain vehicles exempt from regulations in certain situations; exceptions and additional requirements.

A. The driver of any emergency vehicle, when such vehicle is being used in the performance of public services, and when such vehicle is operated under emergency conditions, may, without subjecting himself to criminal prosecution:

Exactly.

I think the only case where breaking the law by law enforcement is ok is in order to save lives directly in danger, and there is no other viable recourse.

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: her209
Like if cops had to trespass on someone's property to catch a suspect that was running away on foot?

Sure, that is a good example.

Originally posted by: Crono
EDIT: I think your example is bad, because speed limits are specifically for non-emergency cases.

I partly thought of this thread based on another thread a few months ago about the guy who "pulled over a cop". He followed around a speeding cop for several miles, speeding himself, until the cop eventually stopped and talked to him. A lot of people here thought the guy was an idiot who should get a ticket for speeding since he was indeed speeding in order to keep up with the cop. So they thought it was *not* okay to break a law (speeding) to enforce the law (the cop speeding).

I myself went with "It's complicated", because I am not 100% sure how I feel about it.

edit: And seriously, is catching a regular speeder really an emergency?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Police aren't breaking the law when they exceed the speed limit in the execution of their duties, however when they blow by on the interstates to make a meal break or the like, they are speeding illegally. Of course no one is going to pull them over, so in this case they are effectively above the law.

Yes and no, and it certainly depends on the department. Surpisingly, some departments do respond to citizen complaints. Squad cars have #'s for a reason.

 

[se7en]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Yes and no, and it certainly depends on the department. Surpisingly, some departments do respond to citizen complaints. Squad cars have #'s for a reason.

If a citizen reports that a cop is speeding how would the department actually know since it's basically he said / she said? I don't know how all that works but it seems being so hard to prove something like that the cops would just laugh when the citizen hung up.

 

[AstroManLuca]

It's complicated. Not only is your example bad (it's not against the law for a cop to speed to catch a speeder), but there are many situations where I feel there is a moral aspect outside the law. Sometimes you have to bend or break the rules to do the right thing, because the "right thing" and the "legal thing" aren't always exactly the same.

Not saying people should break laws all the time, but it bothers me sometimes when people are so intent on protecting the integrity of laws that they lose sight of what the laws are trying to do.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Crono
No.

EDIT: I think your example is bad, because speed limits are specifically for non-emergency cases.

Better example might be planting evidence

Even in emergencies, with lights and sirens blaring, police officers here in Oregon are only allowed 15mph over the posted speed limit, regardless of the event.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb


They can't go where they want without a warrant. Private property is still private property...

False. You ever watch Cops? You ever have a party in high school where the cops just walked inside or your backyard?


If the police see a crime being committed, or believe a felony is in progress, or are in pursuit, they will bust in your door, run through your yard, or just walk in.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

A citizen cannot speed to catch a speeder.
A cop can speed to catch a speeder.
A cop cannot enter a property without a warrant.

A cop CAN NOT speed and run lights legally w/o being on a call.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: her209
Like if cops had to trespass on someone's property to catch a suspect that was running away on foot?

Sure, that is a good example.

There are laws that allow a cop to pursue a criminal, thus it's not trespassing.

 

[jtvang125]

Every morning I always see this cop on a motorcycle go and stake out at a few spots around the area where I exit the freeway. Sometimes I would catch him while on the freeway on his way there and he's zipping by everyone doing atleast 80. When he's on the streets he hauls ass too. Try accelerating from a stop light at his pace and you'll definitely get ticketed. And what gets to me is he's not responding to an emergency. He's just trying to get to his hiding spots as quick as possible.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A citizen cannot speed to catch a speeder.
A cop can speed to catch a speeder.
A cop cannot enter a property without a warrant. -- YES a cop can enter property without a warrant if they see a crime being committed or they are in pursuit of an individual.

A cop CAN NOT speed and run lights legally w/o being on a call.

 

[OCGuy]

So cops shouldnt be allowed to open carry in places like Socal?

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A citizen cannot speed to catch a speeder.
A cop can speed to catch a speeder.

What is the distinction there?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A citizen cannot speed to catch a speeder.
A cop can speed to catch a speeder.
A cop cannot enter a property without a warrant. -- YES a cop can enter property without a warrant if they see a crime being committed or they are in pursuit of an individual.

A cop CAN NOT speed and run lights legally w/o being on a call.

lol yeap.

on cops one t ime they had a couple who lived in a 2nd story apartment. the guy beat the shit out of the GF. the cops wanted to talk to him and he said he was not comeing out and they couldnt come in without a warrent. he thought he was safe.

the cop just turns the camera and laughs. then gives the order to go get him. they break in the door and drag his ass out.

he is screaming how they can't come in without a warrent. the cop told him that was wrong. if a crime is being commited they have full rights to go in and get him. oops..