Is it me or the new-gen Xbox1/PS4 are underwhelming spec-wise?

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videoclone

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2003
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As said before, we knew they wouldn't have bleeding edge performance like the generations that came prior. Their best performance can be achieved on a modern $800 PC where as before, their performance out of the gate was unmatched.

I wish it wasn't so because just think, these things may be around another 8 years before we see a new one. By that time, they will really look out dated. But if the Xbox One bombs like they have set it up to, we might see something sooner.

If you look at these new consoles as a total power consumption used to performance

and keeping to a limit of no more power used then the previous generation machines then these are the fastest thing they could produce while sticking to the power limit!

We just don't have anything out on the market that has a power to performance efficacy better then the Jaguar/GCN apu!.. no other options at the under 200w range so this is it!.

They could never have given us anything better then this.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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The PS4 and Xbone have pretty decent specs. I don't know what you are talking about OP.



The hell are you smoking?



360 and PS3 barely do anything in 1080p. Most of it is 720, and it looks aged as hell and has for some time now.

I agree. The specs are fine if the prices aren't ridiculous. Especially paired with the improved controllers and general improvement (Sony's online should be better, while I hate it being mandatory but Skype on them and other features are nice, as is the Blu-Ray drive).

Yeah the 360 and PS3 were not cutting edge other than the 360 was one of the first unified shader GPUs and then its unified memory. The PS3 had cell and XDR2 but that really didn't help it much especially due to the limitations it caused. Neither one was really anything PCs at the time couldn't do better.

Actually aren't a lot of games still not actually rendered at 720p, but a bit lower and then upscaled? The new systems should be able to offer basically dual 1080p rendering at higher framerates than the old systems managed for 720p single frame. Plus it should be a lot easier for companies to port to PC, which means you should be able to spend more and reap the benefits.

Plus one thing that is being overlooked is how much better the development support is now. That alone is probably worth a lot of extra hardware power.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
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the cross platforming/porting has killed game advancement. with new games on the horizon, hopefully game engine creators can really amp it up.

every big game seems like it had to take into account win/360/ps4. just no straight up from the ground hard core PC game.

doom 3 and hl2 were probably the last pure PC game engines and games. when d3 first leaked, the gfx on my radeon 9700pro were fucking amazing. never saw real shadows like that.

frostbite/crysis, they all are fine tuned with porting in mind.

game quality has still been good though ;)
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
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A 7850 is about 50% better than a 7700. That's real world performance, with both of them using, GDDR5. The PS4 falls in between a 7850 and a 7870. So it's going to be at least 50% better, before you figure in that the Xbox One is crippled with DDR3. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/777?vs=778

wrong only about 20-25%

perfrel.gif
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
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Am I the only one around here that doesn't GAF about how many CUs or SPs or whatever the new consoles have, and just want to play games?
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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Am I the only one around here that doesn't GAF about how many CUs or SPs or whatever the new consoles have, and just want to play games?

No but people are spoiled. This is why I am supporting Nintendo as much as I can. It is a games machine and Nintendo has a good history in my book for developing quality titles.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
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I typed 7700 instead of 7770, I hope that didn't confuse you. But my link clearly showed the 7770. I hope your not comparing the Xbox One to a 7790, because there's no way it's as good as a 7790.

So, by your own chart,
7770 = 76%
7850 = 121%
That's about 50% better.

Of course I'm not sure the Xbox One is even going to be as good as the 7770 since it's only using DDR3. While the PS4 is actually going to be better than a 7850.
 

tipoo

Senior member
Oct 4, 2012
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It's probalby been brought up by now but COD is hardly an indicator of a platforms potential, it's made to run at 60fps and be good enough. Look at Killzone Shadowfall. It doesn't beat a maxed out PC running C3, but who was really expecting that? Your baseline rig also won't have as much GDDR5 to throw around. And all that really doesn't even matter, because games won't be targetted to your specific PC 5 years into its lifetime.

The seventh gen consoles were huge loss leaders for MS and Sony, they weren't going to do that again. The PS3 cost 850 to make at the start, and they sold it for what, 600? This time it's more reasonable hardware, and it makes sense.

ibkLh2II7UZlqe.gif



ibvZ53RXBDlNFL.gif
 
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dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
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We also forget that the average person has not seen what Crysis 3 at even high settings looks like. A YouTube video doesn't do it justice.

As far as what the high-watermark will be, I'd look and see what Naughty Dog and Square-Enix pull off.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
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I can't wait for MS to kill the game industry with all this Kinect and mainstream crap, and 10 years from now Nintendo introduces a system with a simple D pad controller that is hailed as revolutionary.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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Because the comparison is much easier. Before we had the Cell and the Power PC. Now we have 2 platforms on x86 processors. They're pretty much computers.

Also, both companies are looking to maximize profits with "good enough" graphics. These graphics we're seeing is nothing new to us because we're PC gamers (a lot of us at least or we know what PC games look like). To the majority of people I know, they've never seen graphics like this, so it's an upgrade to them, and Sony/Microsoft get to release consoles cheaper and take less of a loss (or even no loss). Win/Win.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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So umm.. do you know how eSRAM works? If you don't, please don't attempt to make that comparison up above. I don't know what makes you more qualified than several electrical engineers Microsoft has hired.

Also, buying a console because it is more "powerful" doesn't make sense when the main purpose of these boxes by your reasoning is to play games. What happens when the XBOX One has 12 games you want to play but the PS4 only has 2? Will that "extra power" really be helpful then? :whiste:

It's always been about and will forever be about games. Games games games. It's the reason why the PSOne outsold the N64 and Dreamcast, the PS2 outsold the Gamecube and Xbox, Wii outsold the PS3 and Xbox 360, Nintendo DS outsold the PSP and 3DS kicked the shit out of the PS Vita.

Games. Period. Fin.

Not only that, most games are made by 3rd parties, which have little interest to overplay the differences between the two consoles. They don't care which system you buy a game on, they just care if you buy it. Which is why you really need a Digital Foundry article to tell the difference between the PS3 and 360 versions of games today.

If raw performance was the only thing that mattered to the general public, then the Wii should have bombed instead of selling 100 million units.


Read this again and again please guys.

Yes, the PS4 may seem "overpowered". It probably is faster than the Xbox One. But speed means nothing without games. Not to mention, if I'm a developer, I'm not going to make a game that harnesses the full power of the PS4, then remake that same game, and dumb it down for 360. I'm going to make a game for the lowest common denominator (360), and sell it on both platforms.
Why make less money when I can make more selling it to two different platforms?
Why spend more money optimizing it for both platforms when I can make it work on both from the start? Especially when they use the same architecture.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
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http://sonyps5.blogspot.com/


I would have liked to see more computing power on these systems. Console games lack alot of depth, usually its just wave of endless bots or some elaborate rails script.

How about a game that is running processes on a gigantic scale, and really thinking about complex AI.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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http://sonyps5.blogspot.com/


I would have liked to see more computing power on these systems. Console games lack alot of depth, usually its just wave of endless bots or some elaborate rails script.

How about a game that is running processes on a gigantic scale, and really thinking about complex AI.

Because complex AI does not exist. I have yet to see a game that actually thinks. We can't even write good Go AIs, how do you expect use to write a bot that isn't retarded. The only reason Chess AIs are so good is because they can brute force every possibility and determine a value for each. Processing power hasn't evolve that much that we can do that on a grander scale.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Hah. I remember when PS3/360 were coming out, and people were talking about how terrible x86 was, how infinitely better Cell and PPC were. And here we are. x86.

Show me the games anyway :) I don't care whose name is on the console if the games are good.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
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Because complex AI does not exist. I have yet to see a game that actually thinks. We can't even write good Go AIs, how do you expect use to write a bot that isn't retarded. The only reason Chess AIs are so good is because they can brute force every possibility and determine a value for each. Processing power hasn't evolve that much that we can do that on a grander scale.

Intelligent AI doesn't exist. The complexity of the AI is only based on how you write it. Give an AI Bot a limited number of choices, you have simple AI. Give them an astounding amount of choices, it becomes complex.

Sometimes not a good thing though, because usually they act so bewilderingly that alot of developers just omit the entire thing.

The reason NPC's in alot of games don't really seem unpredictable is because the computing power necessary would probably be too much. Imagine a Npc in Skyrim do the following:

- Not just react to your movement/location with head movement, but physically move around based upon your armor/weapons/reputation/appearance
- Have 1000 possible vocal lines to use from based upon more then just randomness or your selection
- Plants/Trees that grow based upon the amount of light, rainfall, and pest exposure (or physical exposure)
- Track every persons movement on the entire map/globe. Seamless

Instead we get COD and Skyrim type NPCS. The graphics are great, the AI is pretty predictable.

I will say though, the interaction you can have with NPC's is at least entertaining and interesting vs. other games. But honestly, its not much better or even better at all then ultima 7 black gate....
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
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Please read the original source: http://www.oxm.co.uk/54712/microsof...-360s-sold-and-one-billion-next-gen-consoles/

Moreover, Medhi thinks the general entertainment capabilities of Xbox One and PS4 will more than double their selling power. "We think you can go broader than a game console, that's our aim, and you can go from 400 million to potentially upwards of a billion units [Update: just to clarify, he's talking about all next gen consoles combined here]. That's how we're thinking of the Xbox opportunity as we go forward."

Critical reading skills are very much lacking in the tech press. Upwards of a billion != 1 billion. :colbert:
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
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To answer the main question I'd say no, I don't think it's underwhelming.

It's much better than the previous (current) gen of PS3/360 and I'm happy about it. I myself completely skipped the 360 and PS3, and only bought a Wii about a year ago. I played (and still occasionally do) games on my cousin's 360 when I go at his place and we rent games for the heck of it but that's about it. The only thing that I don't like is the XBOX One's name and look. I never liked "XBOX" to start with, but XBOX One is bad, but even worse than the name (when I thought that Nintendo's Wii couldn't be beaten) is the look. It doesn't even look like a "video game console". I think Microsoft probably went something along the lines of "hell Nintendo got away with making a cube, let's make a rectangle!". Yeah great idea MS, keep at it.

But anyway, beyond the terribad design and its name, it's alright, as long as it's better than the current gen it should hold its ground for the next couple of years until, once more, history repeats itself. I'm just happy we'll finally get to effectively move on to another gen (rather than saying the "next gen", because saying "next gen" implies it should be leaps and bounds ahead, and in reality it ain't the case, it's just "another gen", but that's ok by itself).

For the "next gen" I will probably buy a PS4, 'cause the XBOX One is so damn ugly and I don't want to look at a VHS player below or next to my HDTV (nah, joking, partly, it does look bad but I still wouldn't buy one even if it looked better, I'm just not interested at all by the XBOX One so far). But in reality I will probably stick with my Wii, maybe will buy a Wii U much later on (like in two or three years from now) and that might be it, because in the end I'm mostly a PC gamer and I nkow that most PS4 games I'd buy will end up ported to PC anyway (in which case, hopefully, we'll have more video/audio options along with the possibility to mod them as well).

To be honest though I have this feeling that this "next gen" we'll get is going to be the last gen of "video games consoles" (heck that was probably over anyway with the 360 and PS3). The following gen, in maybe six, seven or eight years from now, what could it possibly be beyond being faster hardware-wise? They're more like "complete entertainment systems" now rather than being built up to "only play video games". We can watch movies, go on the web and I'm sure the XBOX One will get its peripheral so that we can make our toasts for breakfast with the damn thing (I mean seriously). I'm sure at some point we'll get some APP allowing us to order our pizza by calling our local pizzeria via our PS4 with voice recognition and a couple of controller button pushes. It's getting ridiculous if you ask me but that's probably because I'm getting too old.

But... yeah back on track, I think that spec-wise they're alright, could have been better but then again everything can always be better so yeah.
 
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Anteaus

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2010
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I concur. The PS4/XB1 are basically HTPCs with proprietary interfaces at this point. My question is, will the PS4 support NTFS on external drives now or are they going to force people to use some proprietary format?
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
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Even so, split that in thirds and that's over 300 million. The PS2 (the best selling console of all time) sold around 150 million.

Not happening.

You need to look at the entire generation when all console stop shipping, not when new consoles are released. The PS2 sold 35 million units after the PS3 was released. Clearly the Xbox 360 and PS3 aren't going to sell 0 units after holiday 2013, especially if they are likely to cost $499 a piece. Keep in mind that neither the Xbox 360 or PS3 have ever sold below $199 which in the last generation most would say was the "sweet spot" for massive console adoption. That clearly isn't true anymore.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
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Hah. I remember when PS3/360 were coming out, and people were talking about how terrible x86 was, how infinitely better Cell and PPC were. And here we are. x86.

Show me the games anyway :) I don't care whose name is on the console if the games are good.

Best part of x86 is when Apple switched and 2/3 of the world's smug disappeared overnight.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
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Well here is Xbox 360 screenshot of Crysis 3, so I don't think the comparison of the PC version to COD on new Xbox is a very good comparison as even his face here looks better than the COD Ghosts comparison.

01_jailbreak_1_intro.jpg