Is it me or does the new NY gun laws actually ban all handguns now?

[micrometers]

Sandy Hook
NY firefighters
Aurora
Oregon Mall

That's 4.

For handguns, ideally I'd do like what NY has done: 7 round limit. DC bans all "bottom loading" guns which basically allows you a revolver.

AR15 with a 7 round limit to mag size I'd be A-okay with.

 

[HumblePie]

Again, Sandy Hook has conflicting reports about the main weapon used. You can't use Sandy Hook as an example of a mass shooting with an AR-15. Not until the official investigation is over with an official public police report.

NY Firefighters shooting was not considered a mass shooting spree by definition. Although an AR15 was used, as well as handguns and a shotgun.

Aurora, the shooter had an AR-15. But it jammed when he started using it. The kills were carried out with a remington 870 12 gauge pump shotgun.

Oregon Clackamas mall. Yep, that was a mass shooting with an AR-15.

As for the DC ban, that is being removed as it is still in the courts. The bottom loading aspect which bans all semi automatic pistols will not be around much longer. All these gun, magazine, and ammo bans are unconstitutional. They will be stricken down if challenged.

 

[micrometers]

Again, Sandy Hook has conflicting reports about the main weapon used. You can't use Sandy Hook as an example of a mass shooting with an AR-15. Not until the official investigation is over with an official public police report.

NY Firefighters shooting was not considered a mass shooting spree by definition. Although an AR15 was used, as well as handguns and a shotgun.

Aurora, the shooter had an AR-15. But it jammed when he started using it. The kills were carried out with a remington 870 12 gauge pump shotgun.

Oregon Clackamas mall. Yep, that was a mass shooting with an AR-15.

As for the DC ban, that is being removed as it is still in the courts. The bottom loading aspect which bans all semi automatic pistols will not be around much longer. All these gun, magazine, and ammo bans are unconstitutional. They will be stricken down if challenged.

I've been trying to find how many bullets the AR15 shot before jamming. If it is over 30 or 40, it still would have been more deadly than a standard gun.

Sandy hook an AR15 has been confirmed as the weapon for weeks now.

DC's subsequent legislation on handguns was upheld post-Heller. A six-shooter is still a gun. Bernard Goetz seriously injured 4 teenagers using a six shooter.

 

[HumblePie]

I've been trying to find how many bullets the AR15 shot before jamming. If it is over 30 or 40, it still would have been more deadly than a standard gun.

Sandy hook an AR15 has been confirmed as the weapon for weeks now.

DC's subsequent legislation on handguns was upheld post-Heller. A six-shooter is still a gun. Bernard Goetz seriously injured 4 teenagers using a six shooter.

No, Sandy Hook AR15 hasn't been confirmed.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

So stop spouting that off like it's a fact right now. Until the investigation is over with you don't know for certain. It very well could be the AR-15 was the gun used the most.

 

[micrometers]

No, Sandy Hook AR15 hasn't been confirmed.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

So stop spouting that off like it's a fact right now.

that's from over a month ago and was one of the initial reports.

As I said, for weeks now it's been confirmed an AR15 did the killing. Do a google search.

 

[HumblePie]

that's from over a month ago and was one of the initial reports.

As I said, for weeks now it's been confirmed an AR15 did the killing. Do a google search.

I have been. There is ZERO official police investigation reports released to the public. Only senators and a few anti gun media reports spouting that off. Until I see the investigation report, there has no factual certainty. As of now, there are still way too many conflicting reports of what gun or guns were used.

 

[Matt1970]

Sandy Hook
NY firefighters
Aurora
Oregon Mall

That's 4.

For handguns, ideally I'd do like what NY has done: 7 round limit. DC bans all "bottom loading" guns which basically allows you a revolver.

AR15 with a 7 round limit to mag size I'd be A-okay with.

Going from 15 to 10 rounds didn't stop Columbine. The main shooter had 13 clips and had to stop and reload atleast 8 times. 0 attempts to subdue him. What makes you think going form 10 to 7 will help?

Thing is everyone is going to be running for thier lives or hidden. Hardly anyone is going to be watching to see when it is time for someone to reload. When a pistol fires it's last round you will NOT hear the slide lock kick in. You may be lucky enough to hear him release the empty clip but probably not especially indoors. Then you have to make the decision to do something about it, then close the distance between the shooter and yourself and then carry out your action all in a matter of seconds. If you don't see or hear him release the empty clip then you have to hope you are still alive when he runs out again.

 

[HumblePie]

As for the James Holmes case in Aurora. There has been a gag order in place that is now had a motion filed to removed. We don't know how many rounds James Holmes fired with the AR-15 before it jammed and he switched weapons. All the media reports have confirmed is that the majority of the carnage was done with the shotgun.

Speaking of which, that is the most effective way to deal with small magazine. Have multiple weapons loaded and ready to go. It is faster to draw a new weapon than to reload. The difference in speed between the two can be measured in tenths of a second though.

 

[HumblePie]

according to the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

He fired fewer than 30 shots with the AR15 and some of which was fired into the ceiling when he was tossing the gas grenades.

 

[micrometers]

Going from 15 to 10 rounds didn't stop Columbine. The main shooter had 13 clips and had to stop and reload atleast 8 times. 0 attempts to subdue him. What makes you think going form 10 to 7 will help?

Not in every case but in many, it will help. THese killings take two types: siege and spree. Columbine and Vtech was a siege situation where the killers had free reign for several minutes while people were trapped inside. Aurora OTOH was done in under a few minutes I believe before law enforcement arrived. Same for Sandy Hook.

 

[micrometers]

As for the James Holmes case in Aurora. There has been a gag order in place that is now had a motion filed to removed. We don't know how many rounds James Holmes fired with the AR-15 before it jammed and he switched weapons. All the media reports have confirmed is that the majority of the carnage was done with the shotgun.

Speaking of which, that is the most effective way to deal with small magazine. Have multiple weapons loaded and ready to go. It is faster to draw a new weapon than to reload. The difference in speed between the two can be measured in tenths of a second though.

sure, walk around with 10 six shooters. That would get cumbersome fast.

 

[micrometers]

according to the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

He fired fewer than 30 shots with the AR15 and some of which was fired into the ceiling when he was tossing the gas grenades.

nice find.

But still, so you recommend engineering feed failures? You don't think that the guys who make these extended mags aren't engineering ways to make them more reliable?

 

[xj0hnx]

that's from over a month ago and was one of the initial reports.

As I said, for weeks now it's been confirmed an AR15 did the killing. Do a google search.

Pete Williams, who is NBC’s chief Justice correspondent, reported the following in the video posted above:

This continues to be a very complex investigation and there is a lot of contradictory information out there, but we have some new information this morning (one month ago) from a couple of federal officials and state officials.
They say now that there were actually four handguns inside the school, not just two as we were initially told. Four handguns and apparently only handguns that were taken into the school.
We knew that Adam Lanza, the man said to be the gunman here, also had an ‘assault-style’ AR-15 -style rifle that he had had taken to the school, it was in the car he drove there, his mother’s car, but we have been told by several officials that he had left that in the car.​

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/01/30208-nbc-admits-no-assault-rifle-used-in-newtown-shooting/
​

 

[HumblePie]

nice find.

But still, so you recommend engineering feed failures? You don't think that the guys who make these extended mags aren't engineering ways to make them more reliable?

No, I was proving your claim that an AR15 was used in 4 mass shootings in the last 6 months incorrect. It is incorrect.

There have only been a few mass shootings in America for 2012 and FAR more murders that weren't mass shootings across the nation. The murders that used guns overwhelmingly used handguns.

Lol, you are stupid if you think criminals will only walk around with revolvers if they are intent on a mass shooting. Even if we were some how to magically melt every single semi automatic rifle in existance right now, that wouldn't stop criminals. It's not hard to make them. Hell, people use 3D printers to make 30+ round magazines for semi automatic guns.

 

[Genx87]

according to the wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

He fired fewer than 30 shots with the AR15 and some of which was fired into the ceiling when he was tossing the gas grenades.

Interesting. I never knew he used anything other than an AR-15. I never saw the media report this fact.

 

[HumblePie]

Interesting. I never knew he used anything other than an AR-15. I never saw the media report this fact.

Yah, gag order in effect over all the little details still.

 

[micrometers]

No, I was proving your claim that an AR15 was used in 4 mass shootings in the last 6 months incorrect. It is incorrect.

There have only been a few mass shootings in America for 2012 and FAR more murders that weren't mass shootings across the nation. The murders that used guns overwhelmingly used handguns.

Lol, you are stupid if you think criminals will only walk around with revolvers if they are intent on a mass shooting. Even if we were some how to magically melt every single semi automatic rifle in existance right now, that wouldn't stop criminals. It's not hard to make them. Hell, people use 3D printers to make 30+ round magazines for semi automatic guns.

You haven't disproved anything. An AR 15 has killed multiple random strangers multiple times in this country over the past year.

 

[Matt1970]

Not in every case but in many, it will help. THese killings take two types: siege and spree. Columbine and Vtech was a siege situation where the killers had free reign for several minutes while people were trapped inside. Aurora OTOH was done in under a few minutes I believe before law enforcement arrived. Same for Sandy Hook.

Totally irrelivant but even by your own definition the majority of the people killed in Columbine were trapped in the Library so there is no difference. Also 10 of the 12 people killed at Columbine were killed after being engaged by the on campus police officer.

 

[Cerb]

Going from 15 to 10 rounds didn't stop Columbine. The main shooter had 13 clips and had to stop and reload atleast 8 times. 0 attempts to subdue him. What makes you think going form 10 to 7 will help?

Magic pixie dust, I think.

"In the Country of the Blind the One-Eyed Man is King."

As long as a gunman has ammo, and hasn't catastrophically destroyed his gun by a misfire or other unlikely event, said gunman is in a position of great power. As long as it functions, and has a higher rate of fire than a breach loader, you need to worry most about not being the easiest target in his field of vision.

Lol, you are stupid if you think criminals will only walk around with revolvers if they are intent on a mass shooting.

While probably not their first choice, why not?

sure, walk around with 10 six shooters. That would get cumbersome fast.

Why would they walk around with 10 six-shooters? Just like now, they'd walk around with 2-3, and plenty of ammo. Speed-loaders and clips are time-tested technologies. A revolver will generally be limited to 5-8 rounds, and revolvers that can be quickly reloaded are widely available and not expensive. It's no different than the magazine restrictions, when it comes down to it.

 

[micrometers]

Totally irrelivant but even by your own definition the majority of the people killed in Columbine were trapped in the Library so there is no difference. Also 10 of the 12 people killed at Columbine were killed after being engaged by the on campus police officer.

Read before posting next time. I said that Columbine and Vtech was a siege like situation where the shooter had tens of minutes to do the shooting, maybe half an hour or more. Other shootings you have officers arriving within minutes.

Also, you guys are arguing that the AR15 is an efficient killing machine needed for self defense against US service persons and yet somehow it's an inefficient clunker in these mass shootings?

 

[HumblePie]

You haven't disproved anything. An AR 15 has killed multiple random strangers multiple times in this country over the past year.

No, I proved your statement of an AR15 was used in 4 mass shootings in the last 6 months as incorrect. That is STILL an incorrect statement and your attempt here to deflect is the same shit you've been pulling in other threads. Face it, your statement is wrong.

And the AR15 is the gun least likely to be used in a murder involving guns. It is the least likely to be used in a mass shooting. Those two statements are backed up by recording keeping facts from the past 30 years. But don't let that stop your agenda pushing.

 

[micrometers]

So 7 rounds is too small for self-defense and yet 7 rounds can quickly be reloaded when used in mass killings? something doesn't add up here folks.

 

[micrometers]

No, I proved your statement of an AR15 was used in 4 mass shootings in the last 6 months as incorrect. That is STILL an incorrect statement and your attempt here to deflect is the same shit you've been pulling in other threads. Face it, your statement is wrong.

And the AR15 is the gun least likely to be used in a murder involving guns. It is the least likely to be used in a mass shooting. Those two statements are backed up by recording keeping facts from the past 30 years. But don't let that stop your agenda pushing.

It was used in each of those shootings. Holy shit.

 

[HumblePie]

Read before posting next time. I said that Columbine and Vtech was a siege like situation where the shooter had tens of minutes to do the shooting, maybe half an hour or more. Other shootings you have officers arriving within minutes.

Also, you guys are arguing that the AR15 is an efficient killing machine needed for self defense against US service persons and yet somehow it's an inefficient clunker in these mass shootings?

No one has made that argument but you. All guns can be used to kill. Whoop dee doo. Although guns are designed to save and preserve life, they can be used to take life too as evidence by these criminals shooting people with guns. However your bold statement makes no sense for any logical argument at all for or against the AR15.

An AR15 is just a semi automatic rifle with the dress of a scarier fully automatic rifle used by the military. It is seriously no different than another semi automatic rifle with a wood stock that fires the same rounds. Such as Ruger Mini-14. One looks like a hunting rifle and the other like a military automatic weapon. The Bushmaster AR15 and a Ruger Mini-14 though function exactly the same despite the difference in their lipstick as it is. Purely cosmetic differences. But idiots like Feinstein would have you believe that the AR15 is somehow more capable than a ruger mini-14 and is some the same thing as the fully automatic military version.

 

[micrometers]

No one has made that argument but you. All guns can be used to kill. Whoop dee doo. Although guns are designed to save and preserve life, they can be used to take life too as evidence by these criminals shooting people with guns. However your bold statement makes no sense for any logical argument at all for or against the AR15.

An AR15 is just a semi automatic rifle with the dress of a scarier fully automatic rifle used by the military. It is seriously no different than another semi automatic rifle with a wood stock that fires the same rounds. Such as Ruger Mini-14. One looks like a hunting rifle and the other like a military automatic weapon. The Bushmaster AR15 and a Ruger Mini-14 though function exactly the same despite the difference in their lipstick as it is. Purely cosmetic differences. But idiots like Feinstein would have you believe that the AR15 is somehow more capable than a ruger mini-14 and is some the same thing as the fully automatic military version.

Marketing and mindset of people owning the guns are different. Does this matter? Well, I haven't seen Ruger14's used in mass shootings. Wonder why. Anyways, it shoudl be treated the same as the AR15

ANd yes, you've somehow tried to argue that despite the AR15 firing multiple rounds at multiple people on a multitude of occasions, somehow it has *not* been used in a mass shooting of strangers, despite BEING PRESENT.