Is it just me, or...

[hans030390]

Is it just me, or has the RROD problem only become a problem in the last few months?

I remember the time of the 360 launch up to late last year. I had heard a few reports of systems breaking and overheating. I remember that "towel fix", but it still didn't seem like the 360 was having some widespread problem.

It just seems as if this RROD problem is very recent. It almost seems like the 360 has caught some sort of virus. It's as if the 360 was going semi-strong, because I know it was never perfect, but then just crapped out (whether the system was new, old, core, premium, elite, etc.).

Now, I will admit that I wasn't as knowledgable with gaming/systems back then as I am now. I also realize that the RROD problem was probably brought into the spotlight due to the PS3/Wii.

I've just been wondering this for a while. This RROD problem seems to be some sort of "virus" that has been caught by the 360 recently, and not a problem that has plagued the systems since launch.

It's hard to explain exactly what I'm thinking, or exactly what I mean. Does anyone else understand or have some sort of explanation for this?

 

[CrackRabbit]

It isn't a virus, but a heat related hardware failure.
On/Off cycles cause the solder under the gpu to crack due to inadequate cooling. It is something that takes a bit of time to show.

 

[Aikouka]

No, it's more than Microsoft more-or-less admitted to it being an issue with their warranty (for RROD only) extension.

 

[MikeyLSU]

no, it was a big problem from the beginning, but 360 fanboys would always defend it saying it was nothing out of the ordinary. But when MS admitted to a problem and extended the warranty from 3 months to 3 years, it proved there was indeed a problem.

 

[CKDragon]

Seriously, a little research would save us from having five new RRoD threads every day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RROD

Total uses of the word "virus" = 0

 

[Jules]

I must be lucky or something but i have a Launch console and it run just as good as i got it on launch. I also got a new HDMI Premium for my living room.

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
no, it was a big problem from the beginning, but 360 fanboys would always defend it saying it was nothing out of the ordinary. But when MS admitted to a problem and extended the warranty from 3 months to 3 years, it proved there was indeed a problem.

As CrackRabbit said, there was undoubtedly a time element to the problem manifesting itself. To say "It was a big problem from the beginning" is inaccurate, at best.

 

[MikeyLSU]

wrong, there were problems all over the place from the beginning, but they were swept under the rug. Also, if this is a "time element" thing that takes over 1 year, why are so many people having problems on 2nd and 3rd machines that are just months old?

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
no, it was a big problem from the beginning, but 360 fanboys would always defend it saying it was nothing out of the ordinary. But when MS admitted to a problem and extended the warranty from 3 months to 3 years, it proved there was indeed a problem.

As CrackRabbit said, there was undoubtedly a time element to the problem manifesting itself. To say "It was a big problem from the beginning" is inaccurate, at best.

It was a problem from the beginning. However at the beginning there weren't 10+ million xbox360's out there. Now there are so you are hearing a lot more about it. Last year there were what ... probably 5 million 360's out there, so of course we wouldn't hear as many reports of broken 360's since there were only half as many out there.

Mine broke less than 6 months after launch.

I also don't know 1 person that has one (real friends, not hearing stuff on the internet) and hasn't had it break. I know about 5 people who have had to send it in twice.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
It isn't a virus, but a heat related hardware failure.
On/Off cycles cause the solder under the gpu to crack due to inadequate cooling. It is something that takes a bit of time to show.

I'm aware of that, but that also doesn't explain why there are reports of brand-new (even repaired) units failing in a matter of weeks, days, or minutes currently. What about the people that have gone through multiple systems already?

Sure, time could be a factor, but not for a lot of people. This is the sort of problem I had not heard of during the first year of the 360s life (I might have read about it, but it wasn't as big).

Originally posted by: CKDragon
Seriously, a little research would save us from having five new RRoD threads every day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RROD

Total uses of the word "virus" = 0

You take me too literally. When I say "virus", it's the only word I could think of to describe what I was saying. It just seems like the RROD was a minimal problem up until recently, as a majority (Ok, technically it's not over 50% yet) of 360s are "catching" the RROD problem (new or old).

That wikipedia article didn't help answer my question by saying the RROD problem has or has not been around since launch. It just said what it is/how it's caused/etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I may have missed that.

I also want people to know that I'm not using this thread as something against Microsoft or the 360. This really is something I was wondering about, and it has nothing to do with how I do or do not feel towards the company or system.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
no, it was a big problem from the beginning, but 360 fanboys would always defend it saying it was nothing out of the ordinary. But when MS admitted to a problem and extended the warranty from 3 months to 3 years, it proved there was indeed a problem.

As CrackRabbit said, there was undoubtedly a time element to the problem manifesting itself. To say "It was a big problem from the beginning" is inaccurate, at best.

It was a problem from the beginning. However at the beginning there weren't 10+ million xbox360's out there. Now there are so you are hearing a lot more about it. Last year there were what ... probably 5 million 360's out there, so of course we wouldn't hear as many reports of broken 360's since there were only half as many out there.

Mine broke less than 6 months after launch.

I also don't know 1 person that has one (real friends, not hearing stuff on the internet) and hasn't had it break. I know about 5 people who have had to send it in twice.

Ok, that would be a good explanation. Less owners of the system = less reports. I just don't recall hearing people buying systems that break within days or less of usage, like I've read today. Then again, the same "less people" thing would apply.

I also imagine people wouldn't have said much about it, since it wasn't as "well known" as it is today.

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
no, it was a big problem from the beginning, but 360 fanboys would always defend it saying it was nothing out of the ordinary. But when MS admitted to a problem and extended the warranty from 3 months to 3 years, it proved there was indeed a problem.

This could be, though I wouldn't have necessarily used the word "fanboy" to describe anyone that may have done that.

 

[MikeyLSU]

I would, why else would they defend MS when everything is pointing to a faulty design with an abnormal amount of 360s breaking. BTW, since the beginning I was hearing somewhere around 15-20% but fanboys would always call names and say it is only 3% failure rate. Well, that is not proven wrong.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
I would, why else would they defend MS when everything is pointing to a faulty design with an abnormal amount of 360s breaking. BTW, since the beginning I was hearing somewhere around 15-20% but fanboys would always call names and say it is only 3% failure rate. Well, that is not proven wrong.

Ok, I guess I never heard about that 15-20%. Like I said, I didn't read up as much back then.

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: CKDragon

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
no, it was a big problem from the beginning, but 360 fanboys would always defend it saying it was nothing out of the ordinary. But when MS admitted to a problem and extended the warranty from 3 months to 3 years, it proved there was indeed a problem.

As CrackRabbit said, there was undoubtedly a time element to the problem manifesting itself. To say "It was a big problem from the beginning" is inaccurate, at best.

It was a problem from the beginning. However at the beginning there weren't 10+ million xbox360's out there. Now there are so you are hearing a lot more about it. Last year there were what ... probably 5 million 360's out there, so of course we wouldn't hear as many reports of broken 360's since there were only half as many out there.

Mine broke less than 6 months after launch.

I also don't know 1 person that has one (real friends, not hearing stuff on the internet) and hasn't had it break. I know about 5 people who have had to send it in twice.

If it wasn't RRoDing out of the box, but it took roughly six months or "less than six months", then how is there literally NOT A TIME ELEMENT?

EDIT: This isn't even really directed at purbeast but MikeyLSU, but let me amend this: You're right in the there was a problem within the hardware from the beginning, but the RRoD is a symptom that takes TIME to manifest itself. The RRoD specifically is what the OP was asking about. If your system does not RRoD out of the box, that doesn't mean you're in the clear. Over TIME, you could also feel the pain of an RRoD.

 

[CKDragon]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
I would, why else would they defend MS when everything is pointing to a faulty design with an abnormal amount of 360s breaking. BTW, since the beginning I was hearing somewhere around 15-20% but fanboys would always call names and say it is only 3% failure rate. Well, that is not proven wrong.

Everyone, the xbox 360 fanboys, the PS3 fanboys, blogs, big game websites, forums, you, everyone was going on anecdotal evidence for a long time.

You were shown to be correct.

Enjoy.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It was very common for the (2/3?) of 360 owners who didn't have a problem to say to the (1/3?) who did that:

- anecdotal evidence means nothing, the high failure rates in forum polls are not accurate
- you must be doing something wrong because mine still works.

People still post "mine has worked fine since launch" in every reliablility thread as if that means something. Even if the failure rate is 49% that still means over 5 million owners have never had a problem. Saying you're in the lucky half is cold comfort to the person waiting 4 weeks for warranty service.

CKDragon is correct that there was a time element: the best guess (since MS won't give us details) is that RRoD is a caused by a design flaw in the cooling where the solder breaks over time from too-rapid temp changes (not overheating -- it's more like placing a hot ceramic or glass item on a cold surface, cracks can ensue). This happens over time as the 360 is turned on and off or is stressed and then idle.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
It isn't a virus, but a heat related hardware failure.
On/Off cycles cause the solder under the gpu to crack due to inadequate cooling. It is something that takes a bit of time to show.

I'm aware of that, but that also doesn't explain why there are reports of brand-new (even repaired) units failing in a matter of weeks, days, or minutes currently. What about the people that have gone through multiple systems already?

Sure, time could be a factor, but not for a lot of people. This is the sort of problem I had not heard of during the first year of the 360s life (I might have read about it, but it wasn't as big).

If Microsoft repair is anything like repair for the company I work for a lot (and I mean a whole lot) of stuff is sent back out into the field without being fully repaired or QCed after being repaired.
QC for the repaired units seems to be horrible, hence why you have a "repaired" unit failing a week after it has been sent out.

 

[redice]

My launch system just RROD'd this weekend, have the Best Buy PRP so imma just get it exchanged and upgrade to an elite

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: hans030390

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
It isn't a virus, but a heat related hardware failure.
On/Off cycles cause the solder under the gpu to crack due to inadequate cooling. It is something that takes a bit of time to show.

I'm aware of that, but that also doesn't explain why there are reports of brand-new (even repaired) units failing in a matter of weeks, days, or minutes currently. What about the people that have gone through multiple systems already?

Sure, time could be a factor, but not for a lot of people. This is the sort of problem I had not heard of during the first year of the 360s life (I might have read about it, but it wasn't as big).

If Microsoft repair is anything like repair for the company I work for a lot (and I mean a whole lot) of stuff is sent back out into the field without being fully repaired or QCed after being repaired.
QC for the repaired units seems to be horrible, hence why you have a "repaired" unit failing a week after it has been sent out.

Given the enormous expense MS is going through to repair these things, I would imagine they run a full diagnostic on each unit, which is probably fully automated. Thats probably the most you can reasonably do to test a console.

 

[randay]

its probably due to the newer games pushing x360 to the limits. higher load = hotter gpu.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: randay
its probably due to the newer games pushing x360 to the limits. higher load = hotter gpu.

That is possible. I never really thought of that.

 

[mlm]

Originally posted by: randay
its probably due to the newer games pushing x360 to the limits. higher load = hotter gpu.

I don't know, people have been saying "XXXX killed my Xbox!" for a long time already. The most likely cause of that is the console will get a LOT more use when a new release comes out.

If it's really the case that they're pushing it too hard (and have been since what, Dead Rising? I think that was the first), then this is either going to be a short console cycle again, or developers are going to be forced to scale back their games.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'm of the opinion that it is the hardware itself i.e. poorly designed thermal solution, layout, and implementation, and crappy design choices and build quality for integration of chips on the PCB. I think the solution which Dave dubbed "reliable edition' is on its way.