Is it just me, or does Unreal + Glide = Ugly?

[KarlHungus]

There are artifacts, they are just less evident. As the number of passes increase, so does the need for greater color depths. Assume in 2 full generations of video cards the common specs are 4 texture passes and 16x FSAA. Now, from what I understand the loss of accuracy follows as such: you lose N bits of color accuracy for every 2^N passes (be it texturing or oversampling FSAA). In this particular scenario the loss would be 6 (2 texture, 4 FSAA) bits of color accuracy, which would make the final output equivalent to 26 bit color. I think the effects would be quite noticeable then. Computing internally at 64 bits would eliminate this problem for the forseeable future.

 

[DarK SagE]

Can someone post some metal picks?

 

[Soccerman]

hmm.. I think I MIGHT understand.. don't know for sure. BTW, 26 bits is still better then what the eye can see. are there any cards that support 24 bit? only the Voodoo 3 comes close with it's EFFECTIVE 22 bit.

ever run your desktop at 24 bit? notice a difference between 32 and 24? neither did I

 

[HannibalX]

Geforce owners check out what your missing.

Here is UT rendered in MeTaL by the Viper II
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/video/diamond_viper2/UTV2.jpg

Here is UT rendered in D3D by the GeForce DDR:
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/reviews/video/diamond_viper2/UTGeForce.jpg

 

[HannibalX]

Link fixed.

 

[SuperFreaky]

Cards don't support 24bit color because it runs slower than 32bit color, because current processors and OS's are 32bit
*edit* yeah thats right.... but they still run 32bit code faster than 24bit.....

 

[HannibalX]

Windows is a 16 bit OS based on 8 bit code!

 

[Soccerman]

are you sure? does that make sense then, with 16 Bit?

In any case, I'm pretty sure Windows 9x is on 16 bit code. not like that really matters in my mind right now, cause it's not what I'm talkin about!

Those pics look amazing..

 

[HannibalX]

Yeah MeTaL really kicks!

Oh OT - yeah 9x is 16 bit program that runs on Dos which is 8 bit base code... but that doesn't matter right now, your right

 

[SSP]

Soccerman
<< ever run your desktop at 24 bit? notice a difference between 32 and 24? neither did I >>

Actually I did. But only the background wallpaper.



<< Oh OT - yeah 9x is 16 bit program that runs on Dos which is 8 bit base code... >>

What about win 2k?

 

[HannibalX]

NT 5.0 is a 32 bit OS which was not based off the pld Dos 8 bit code.

 

[Soccerman]

Win 2k is fully 32 bit AKAIK.

now, SSP, if you noticed a difference between 24 and 32 bit.. what wallpaper were u using?

BTW I was talking about wallpaper in my post. I have had multiple wallpapers that can make 16 bit look pretty bad, but none that show 24 bit as being worse then 32 bit...

Also, what detail levels are you guys running at in Glide mode? I just turned it all to medium, and it looks a tiny bit better, but a bit slower. I'm going to try DIRECT 3D at this setting next..

 

[Ferocious]

Glide will probably be dead next year and so will pc gaming as we know it. Coincidence?

Not really. Game developers actually loved the days when Glide reigned supreme. Much easier to program for hardware setup. Which is why most of these game developers are now switching to the PSX2 or/and X-box. Rather then develop for the multitude of possible pc and mac and linux configurations.

 

[Auric]

Savage MeTaL has always ruled the Unreal engine. Now Deus Ex is out there's another reason to consider the Savage2000 over the GeForce 2 MX, especially if you like full color in other games. I'm still amazed at how well my ol' S4 does. The quality has always been top notch but the speed ain't bad either. In Motocross Madness 2 with every single option on and maxed out it still does 35 FPS at 800x600 on the desert track. In NSF5 and Urban Ops it does 1024x768 with everything on. I think a lot of people who have discounted the Savage just don't know what they are missing.

 

[HannibalX]

I doubt PC gaming will be dead in a year. There are titles in development now that are supposed to be released a year or longer from now.

PC's have to big of a fan base to just dissapear, I mean there are literaly millions of people awaiting Duke Nukem 4 and Doom 3. Development companies like Id Software, Lucas Arts and Raven aren't just going to drop development of projects than can make them millions of dollars just because the PS2 and X-Box come out.

I think many dvelopers will start to take more advantage of the console industry, but PC gaming will never die. The X-Box IS a PC - so even if your desktop is gone, consoles will continue to envolve into PC's - and the cycle continues.

 

[BenSkywalker]

64bit color-

http://finger.planetquake.com/plan.asp?userid=johnc&amp;id=14425

Scroll down to 4/29/00 and Carmack explains exactly why we need 64bit color(far too lengthy to cut and paste here).

Unreal/UT looking better in different APIs- Epic svcks. That's pretty much the whole thing, they are absolutely horrible at making games. Unreal is how old now and the thing still only runs properly in Glide. Horribly broken after years of time to patch it. I refuse to buy UT until I can play Unreal properly on a non Voodoo board. OpenGL is the ugliest mode, that is for sure, but it also plays the smoothest on my DDR or TNT(hardly any difference whatsoever) by a wide margin. Flyby only averages in the 40FPS range versus high 50s with D3D, but none of the Epic type gameplay(very slow and jerky, unbalanced and headache inducing). They need to hire people who can write better code then what they have now. My current rig is significantly faster then the best available when Unreal shipped and the game still doesn't run at what is associated with playable FPS. Epic svcks, and badly at that.

&quot;Oh OT - yeah 9x is 16 bit program that runs on Dos which is 8 bit base code&quot;

DOS is 16bit, Win9X is 32bit. Windows is not a program, it is an OS. Win9X still has plenty of 16bit code, but it is not a program that runs on top of DOS.

PC gaming won't be dead in a year, it never has been alive. I think that is something most people don't realize, PC gaming always has been and more then likely always will be a very small niche market. Consoles have owned the gaming market since the beginning, most PC gamers are just blind to the fact. More developers going console? They don't need any and it is highly unlikely that they want any outside of a very small handful(Blizzard, id, Valve etc, only the best). Most PC developers would be laughed out of the market after their first release. PC gamers are used to dealing with third class buggy software, console users have much higher standards and would not tollerate such things. PC gaming will survive, and I doubt too many will jump ship to consoles, it is a completely different type of environment, people worried about having fun over supporting the latest features and such, gameplay over useless complexity. As PC gamers we see things differently, but we are a very small market in comparison.

 

[HannibalX]

Dos is 8 bit, LOL and Windows is a program that is executed and run from Dos. Win9x is not 32 bit, it has some elements of a 32 bit program, but it's still just ahybred Windows 3.11 and thats all it ever will be.

 

[BenSkywalker]

DOS is 16bit, and Win9X is 32bit, do some research on the subject matter. Win9x is not, and never was an application, DOS works as a bootstrap loader and nothing more.

8 bit OSs don't run 32bit applications. 16bit and 32bit OSs don't share driver models as WDM allows between Win2K and Win9X in many situations. The same drivers can be used, at least that is the theory and purpose of the WDM that MS first implemented in Win98 and continued with in Win2K.

If you talk about filenames, Win9X does offer a DOS compatiblity feature that creates a DOS compatible filename that allows some functionality while running in DOS mode. For some easy evidience of this, check out file limitations and various bitrates and compare them to Win9X and DOS. DOS is 16bit and Win9X is 32bit with some 16bit code still present.

 

[Hydraulic]

Hmmm He is right.