Is it better to have RAM on speed with tight timing?

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
I'm planning on going with E4300 or 4400 in a few months time. Wondering about this. This chip will give me plenty options. I can run say 334FSB to get to 3Ghz but the ram will be running at 667. or to get to same speed I can run 8x375 puts the RAM at 750. or I can ran 334x9 but use 2.5 divider putting the ram to 835 or so. Even 900+ is possible with a 2.66 divider at this point.

So I'm wondering is it better to run your RAM at lower speed with very tight timings say 667@4-4-4-12 or 800/900@5-5-5-15? Assuming both timings achievable?

What do you guys think?
 

ineedaname

Member
Dec 7, 2005
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Bandwidth is NOT greater than timings......

It depends how much bandwidth you get after losing some timings.

If you only get like 20mhz extra and u go from cas 4-5 then ur better off at cas 4....

On the other hand if you gain 100mhz from moving cas 4-5 then you're better off with 100mhz more.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ineedaname
Bandwidth is NOT greater than timings......

It depends how much bandwidth you get after losing some timings.

If you only get like 20mhz extra and u go from cas 4-5 then ur better off at cas 4....

On the other hand if you gain 100mhz from moving cas 4-5 then you're better off with 100mhz more.

i *knew* someone would nitpick it :p

of course it is "general" info

if you only get +1 mhz "more", tighten the timings
:roll:

... try running some benchs ... *test it* ;)

if you get +500mhz more, loosen the timings as much as you can/want/need
:D

 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
thanks guys, I did a little research and found some math that backs up your claims. This could be interesting to some people (I was facinated!):

So every Intel processor has to go "outside" to access memory unlike AMD's built-in memory controller. And to access memory they have to go through the lanes connecting the processor to memory (connection pipe). Although you can crank up your memory to incredible bandwith but if this bandwidth exceeds the the bandwidth of the connection pipe then your CPU will not be able to access this extra bandwidth, in this case you are wasting the bandwidth and it is better to turn this extra bandwidth to lower latency. So let's do some math:

Bp = bandwidth of connection pipe between CPU and your memory (called the bus)
(1) Bp = FSB speed/1000 (in Ghz) * 64bits (bus width) * 4 (quad pumped) = FSB /1000 * 8bytes * 4 = FSB/1000 *32bytes
e.g: you running FSB = 300Mhz
Bp = 300/1000 * 32 = 9.6 Gbyte/sec bandwidth

Bm = the bandwidth of your memory
(2) Bm = RAM speed/1000 * 64bit (DDR2 bus width) * 2 (dual channel) = RAM spd/1000 * 8bytes * 2 = RAM spd/1000 *16bytes
e.g. you running at DDR800
Bm = 800/1000 * 16bytes = 12.8 Gbyte/sec bandwidth

thus we want (3) Bp >= Bm at all times this means the conecting pipe is wide enough to allow 100% of memory bandwidth to pass though to your CPU.

however say in the exmaple above if we are running 300 FSB and somehow using dividers (2.66) we get our memory to 800Mhz, then roughly 25% of your memory's bandwidth is unused at all. 12.8 total memory bandwidth output, but only 9,6 accesable to your CPU. You just wasted 25% of the bandwidth. Thus in order to get 100% of this 12.8 GB/sec bandwidth from the memory you need to run FSB at 400+ thus widening the connection pipe to 12.8 GB/sec enough to allow FULL memory bandwidth through.

These two little equations has an interesting implication:
so we want (3) Bp >= Bm substitue for each from equations (1)+(2) we get:
FSB/1000 *32bytes >= RAM speed/1000 * 16bytes

simplify we have:
2*FSB >= RAM speed

divide we get:
2 >= RAM-speed/FSB-speed

since we know RAM-speed/FSB-speed = the memory divider we use, this effectively means:
2>=memory divider

Put it simply we must use a memory divider smaller than 2 to not waste your memory bandwidth due to CPU-RAM pipeline limitation. Since on 965P all dividers are 2 or higher, we can confidently say the optimal divider=2 on 965P. Any higher divier will allow higher RAM speed with no conceivable benefit to the CPU whatsoever. This also means after keeping divider at 2, you want to use as high a FSB as possible for your RAM. So for say E4300 using a lower divider like 8 instead of 9 can push up the FSB a bit and achieve higher memory bandwidth for your CPU (provided you use memory divider of exactly 2 for 965P). If your bandwidth gets ahead of connecting pipe bandwidth then it's time to trade that wasted bandwidth for lower latency.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Neither one of them really matters, as memory isnt the bottleneck in almost all applications (there are a couple exceptions, but for the most part its just synthetic benchmarks).