Is impulsive violence ever justified?

[Atreus21]

This was partially inspired by zsdersw's thread on the Westboro Baptist retards.

No one should ever be murdered, period. But I can say conclusively that, if my son had been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and some guy walked up to me, looked me in the eye, and said, "You know, your son is in hell right now," I'd flatten him. No questions, no warnings. By flatten I mean punch him in the face, not kill him (or attempt to).

If you were in those shoes, can you realistically say you wouldn't respond violently to someone deliberately provoking you with a calculatedly cruel and disrespectful insult both to you and the loved one you mourn?

I've seen anecdotal evidence of cops or other authority figures looking the other way when stuff like this happens. They're human too.

What can be drawn from that? That sort of violence is certainly understandable, but is it justified?

Personally I don't know. I don't think I'd arrest someone reacting like that, unless he accidentally killed the guy.

 

[MJinZ]

Sure, if you are being physically attacked. By Zombies or religious nuts.

 

[Atreus21]

Sure, if you are being physically attacked. By Zombies or religious nuts.

Well, this isn't a case of self defense. More of an insanity plea.

 

[Red Dawn]

This was partially inspired by zsdersw's thread on the Westboro Baptist retards.

No one should ever be murdered, period. But I can say conclusively that, if my son had been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and some guy walked up to me, looked me in the eye, and said, "You know, your son is in hell right now," I'd flatten him. No questions, no warnings. By flatten I mean punch him in the face, not kill him (or attempt to).

If you were in those shoes, can you realistically say you wouldn't respond violently to someone deliberately provoking you with a calculatedly cruel and disrespectful insult both to you and the loved one you mourn?

I've seen anecdotal evidence of cops or other authority figures looking the other way when stuff like this happens. They're human too.

What can be drawn from that? That sort of violence is certainly understandable, but is it justified?

Personally I don't know. I don't think I'd arrest someone reacting like that, unless he accidentally killed the guy.

Justified, no. Understandable, most definitely.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I personally think that "the guy was being an asshole" should be a valid legal defense for a beat down, assuming 12 jurors agree that the other person was in fact being an asshole.

 

[cubeless]

and a punch in the face can kill... the good thing is that we as a species have very powerful rationalization capabilities, so you certainly could justify anything you would do... to your self at least...

 

[Atreus21]

I personally think that "the guy was being an asshole" should be a valid legal defense for a beat down, assuming 12 jurors agree that the other person was in fact being an asshole.

I think there is some legalese for that defense. I'm pretty sure provocation measures big in the establishment of a motive, which in turn affects the verdict and sentencing.

 

[blackangst1]

Yes.

 

[Dekasa]

Justified? Of course! It should be rewarded. Teaches some bloody manners to get smashed in the face when you say things that stupid/disrespectful. Some people didn't learn right and wrong from spankings as a kid, by the time they're adults they need a little more pain.

As long as there's no serious, long-term injury (broken bones, death) I see no reason causing physical pain isn't justified for someone who is seriously asking for it.

 

[Darwin333]

This was partially inspired by zsdersw's thread on the Westboro Baptist retards.

No one should ever be murdered, period. But I can say conclusively that, if my son had been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and some guy walked up to me, looked me in the eye, and said, "You know, your son is in hell right now," I'd flatten him. No questions, no warnings. By flatten I mean punch him in the face, not kill him (or attempt to).

If you were in those shoes, can you realistically say you wouldn't respond violently to someone deliberately provoking you with a calculatedly cruel and disrespectful insult both to you and the loved one you mourn?

I've seen anecdotal evidence of cops or other authority figures looking the other way when stuff like this happens. They're human too.

What can be drawn from that? That sort of violence is certainly understandable, but is it justified?

Personally I don't know. I don't think I'd arrest someone reacting like that, unless he accidentally killed the guy.

Yes I would. The criminal punishment for "flattening" him would be an acceptable price to pay in that situation.

Unfortunately, the bastard is a lawyer and WANTS you to do that so he can sue your ass off. If I was in that situation I would rather burn everything I owned than to pay the bastard for successfully provoking me to beat the crap out of him.

I am not saying its "right" I am just saying that personally it would be worth the potential consequences if someone was to say that to me while I was burying my child.

 

[RearAdmiral]

This was partially inspired by zsdersw's thread on the Westboro Baptist retards.

No one should ever be murdered, period. But I can say conclusively that, if my son had been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and some guy walked up to me, looked me in the eye, and said, "You know, your son is in hell right now," I'd flatten him. No questions, no warnings. By flatten I mean punch him in the face, not kill him (or attempt to).

If you were in those shoes, can you realistically say you wouldn't respond violently to someone deliberately provoking you with a calculatedly cruel and disrespectful insult both to you and the loved one you mourn?

I've seen anecdotal evidence of cops or other authority figures looking the other way when stuff like this happens. They're human too.

What can be drawn from that? That sort of violence is certainly understandable, but is it justified?

Personally I don't know. I don't think I'd arrest someone reacting like that, unless he accidentally killed the guy.

Cept if he grabs your arm and snaps your wrist in half, then you have a broken wrist and you go to jail. You don't feed the trolls on the internet, why would you in RL?

 

[RearAdmiral]

P.S.
And getting popped in the mouth only works on certain people. Tools like the church guy you just mentioned will only use it for their own personal gain then.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

and a punch in the face can kill... the good thing is that we as a species have very powerful rationalization capabilities, so you certainly could justify anything you would do... to your self at least...

'very powerful' is an understatement! I can't say for sure what I'd do in that situation...but I personally doubt I would hurt him. However, if someone else punched him...it wouldn't break my heart either. Everybody is wired differently and I'm pretty much OK with that.

 

[Lemon law]

No, violence is never justified except to defend against violence, but the smart don't get mad, they think of better ways to get more than even.

When Teddy Roosevelt was police commissioner of NYC and had the dilemma of what to do about a fiery anti-Semitic speaker sure to provoke a riot, rather than trying to try to censor him, he arranged to have a large group of clearly Jewish NYC policemen guarding him from the protesting crowd watching him speak.

Very effective at making a fool look like the fool he was.

 

[Moonbeam]

What would Jesus say if he were to be crucified? Forgive them for they know not what they do or God, why have you abandoned me?

If you hate yourself you hate others because you can't survive and feel self hate. It has to be repressed and when it is it leaks out on others.

He who has forgiven himself forgives others and he who forgives others forgives himself. The tunnel to real self love can be dug from both ends.

Violence then is an attempt to end ones internal pain of self hate but inflicting suffering on others. A simple example is that children who are spanked become bullies. Every child who is spanked is told he deserves to be hurt. A bully wants you to hurt more than he does because he thinks you deserve it too.

But we all have this disease to a degree and when the right buttons are pushed we react with violence. Because we feel guilt somebody can come along and say your kid has gone to hell and we believe it. We believe it by the strength of our denial and how we want that person to hurt as we do.

And don't forget, we have all been forgiven. It would be nice to feel it.

And while I know I should be ashamed of myself for the foolishness and incoherence of my words, (just saying), I don't.

 

[Kirby]

Justified? Of course! It should be rewarded. Teaches some bloody manners to get smashed in the face when you say things that stupid/disrespectful. Some people didn't learn right and wrong from spankings as a kid, by the time they're adults they need a little more pain.

As long as there's no serious, long-term injury (broken bones, death) I see no reason causing physical pain isn't justified for someone who is seriously asking for it.

Why do you hate the Constitution?

 

[Moonbeam]

Another question I would ask is 'Is it fair to allow a person or group to intentionally inflict emotional suffering on others as free speech?'

The issue goes two ways.

1. Anything anybody says will offend some people and cause them emotional suffering.

2. The intention of some speech is to offend as many folk as one can.

Assholes are very sensitive.

Assholes are very offensive.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I think in a situation where it could be proven that most any reasonable person would become violent is the acceptable point where we draw the 'stretch' line. For example, I would have compassion for a person who catches a person molesting his child and proceeds to beat him to a pulp... Even f that pulp may ultimately end in death. It's hard to sentence this person to jail for losing his mind in such extreme circumstance.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think in a situation where it could be proven that most any reasonable person would become violent is the acceptable point where we draw the 'stretch' line. For example, I would have compassion for a person who catches a person molesting his/her child and proceeds to beat him/her to a pulp... Even f that pulp may ultimately end in death. It's hard to sentence this person to jail for losing his/her mind in such extreme circumstance.

It's hard to imagine a jury that would convict.

 

[RearAdmiral]

What would Jesus say if he were to be crucified? Forgive them for they know not what they do or God, why have you abandoned me?

If you hate yourself you hate others because you can't survive and feel self hate. It has to be repressed and when it is it leaks out on others.

He who has forgiven himself forgives others and he who forgives others forgives himself. The tunnel to real self love can be dug from both ends.

Violence then is an attempt to end ones internal pain of self hate but inflicting suffering on others. A simple example is that children who are spanked become bullies. Every child who is spanked is told he deserves to be hurt. A bully wants you to hurt more than he does because he thinks you deserve it too.

But we all have this disease to a degree and when the right buttons are pushed we react with violence. Because we feel guilt somebody can come along and say your kid has gone to hell and we believe it. We believe it by the strength of our denial and how we want that person to hurt as we do.

And don't forget, we have all been forgiven. It would be nice to feel it.

And while I know I should be ashamed of myself for the foolishness and incoherence of my words, (just saying), I don't.

That was like a BJ for my mind.

 

[nageov3t]

there's a reason that premeditated crimes are typically punished more harshly under the law.

 

[Moonbeam]

That was like a BJ for my mind.

I hope you had an orgasm.

 

[Cogman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKDg4

This was justified.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I would take the guy who lost his son and knocked the asshole out for a talk and good cup of coffee to give him some piece of mind.

Then i would the do the same for the asshole. I would take him for a talk at local metro. But not before i give him a coffee laced with lactulose that works after about 20 minutes. Then i know to hide around the corner :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactulose

Common side effects are abdominal cramping, gas, borborygmus and flatulence. Less common side effects are nausea and vomiting. Excessively high dosage can cause explosive and uncontrollable diarrhea and nausea. In normal individuals, overdose is considered uncomfortable, but not life threatening.

 

[shira]

This was partially inspired by zsdersw's thread on the Westboro Baptist retards.

No one should ever be murdered, period. But I can say conclusively that, if my son had been killed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and some guy walked up to me, looked me in the eye, and said, "You know, your son is in hell right now," I'd flatten him. No questions, no warnings. By flatten I mean punch him in the face, not kill him (or attempt to).

If you were in those shoes, can you realistically say you wouldn't respond violently to someone deliberately provoking you with a calculatedly cruel and disrespectful insult both to you and the loved one you mourn?

I've seen anecdotal evidence of cops or other authority figures looking the other way when stuff like this happens. They're human too.

What can be drawn from that? That sort of violence is certainly understandable, but is it justified?

Personally I don't know. I don't think I'd arrest someone reacting like that, unless he accidentally killed the guy.

I can honestly say I wouldn't respond violently. I've always been a man of words, not a man of sticks. I'd either insult the idiot with the most degrading comments I could think of, or I'd simply ignore him/her as being unworthy of my energy. Sort of like my strategy on ATPN.