Is illegal immigration a major problem in the USA?

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I'd say top 10.

This is one of those issues we should've addressed head on 10, 20, or 30 years ago. But because we let our piss poor broken system continue, today we are faced with a bigger problem than we have ever encountered and even enforcing the law is frowned upon because the bigger headline is you're throwing away the Latino vote.

30 years ago we could've said doing a mass deportation made sense. Every year we waited, that became less and less likely. Now how do you deal with 11 million+ undocumented immigrants without making some sort of exception?

 

[nixium]

I think you're correct to equate the two. One is shipping some jobs away for cheaper goods, and the other is shipping some jobs away, usually for cheaper labor. I don't rank either particularly high in importance, probably about 10th on my list. The problem is there are economic negatives and positives in both scenarios. So, for example, let's say a professional couple who don't have the time to clean their own house decide to hire illegals to do it for $40/week, whereas they would have to pay $100/week for legal labor. So they have an additional $60/week, which immediately improves their standard of living, and most importantly, the $60 can be spent on additional goods and services which supports other jobs. It's the same with cheap goods shipped from overseas.

My sense from various things I've read is that this is all probably a net negative, but I'm not too sure that the net is negative enough to make it an issue of top importance.

Anyway, it looks like job loss from off shoring is starting to level off, while job loss due to automation, which has already killed more jobs than offshoring, continues apace and will nearly extinguish the manufacturing sector by mid century at latest. This in turn will finally make the issue of offshoring moot.

Your example itself is a net negative.

The rich couple paying a $100 a week are paying someone that's at a lower income level than themselves, right? So now the standard of living for *that* person has risen slightly, while the rich couple more or less retain their standard. This is what an egalitarian society is supposed to look like.

Instead, the $40 is not enough for maintaining a good standard of living for the illegal workers (multiple people crammed into one apartment.) Money is even sent overseas, which takes it outside this economy. Finally, all labor laws are thrown out of the window to support that $40 wage.

 

[compuwiz1]

Major problem. Building that wall is not going to solve it. Take away the reasons they come here is how we solve it.

Make it illegal to hire illegals.
Implement a work permit program and people can register in a pool to be selected for employment and residency here, as long as they are employed. This will give us a better chance to screen who is coming as well.
No more benefits to illegals. No more free clinics. No EBT cards. No Section 8 and adress the anchor baby issue.
Kick out all the criminals, gang members, etc., immediately upon their release from jails and prisons.
No more sanctuary cities.
Make our immigration laws be enforced and have teeth again. Anyone caught coming into the country illegally, is immediately deported and basically put on notice that if they return they will be arrested and charged with a crime, punishable by a long prison term.

Yes, take away all the reasons they come here and they won't immigrate illegally anymore.

 

[MongGrel]

Not even voting.

It's been ignored and exploiting for over 30 years at a minimum, it really doesn't matter as a border issue anymore.

 

[rudder]

It's currently not much of a problem. The net economic effect is near zero, they are a small percentage of total population, etc.

Based on the fact that little to nothing is being done about it also shows it isn't really a problem. The country is so well off that all that's left is to bicker about stuff that doesn't matter. Illegal immigration is one of those things. When real issues arise there is little debate, we are pretty quick to come to a consensus that something should be done (i.e. WWII).

Define what is a small percentage? Some data suggests that 1 in 10 children born in this country have parents who are illegal immigrants. That is a lot of free healthcare.

When Obama leaves office the U.S. will likely have $20 trillion in debt. I know people like to pretend that this is not an issue but when you continually promise and spend more that is take in..... Something will have to give eventually.

 

[Indus]

Major problem. Building that wall is not going to solve it. Take away the reasons they come here is how we solve it.

Make it illegal to hire illegals.
Implement a work permit program and people can register in a pool to be selected for employment and residency here, as long as they are employed. This will give us a better chance to screen who is coming as well.
No more benefits to illegals. No more free clinics. No EBT cards. No Section 8 and adress the anchor baby issue.
Kick out all the criminals, gang members, etc., immediately upon their release from jails and prisons.
No more sanctuary cities.
Make our immigration laws be enforced and have teeth again. Anyone caught coming into the country illegally, is immediately deported and basically put on notice that if they return they will be arrested and charged with a crime, punishable by a long prison term.

Yes, take away all the reasons they come here and they won't immigrate illegally anymore.

Here in New York, they don't get any EBT. They're just not prosecuted for their immigration status so they actually have to work hard to pay rent, eat, send money home to family which is a bit harder than normal American citizens who are entitled to EBT benefits.

I don't know how other states are.

Can you confirm that illegals get foodstamps/ welfare/ ebt in your state or is this just conservate logic rhetoric that is just not true?

 

[1prophet]

I think you're correct to equate the two. One is shipping some jobs away for cheaper goods, and the other is shipping some jobs away, usually for cheaper labor. I don't rank either particularly high in importance, probably about 10th on my list. The problem is there are economic negatives and positives in both scenarios. So, for example, let's say a professional couple who don't have the time to clean their own house decide to hire illegals to do it for $40/week, whereas they would have to pay $100/week for legal labor. So they have an additional $60/week, which immediately improves their standard of living, and most importantly, the $60 can be spent on additional goods and services which supports other jobs. It's the same with cheap goods shipped from overseas.

My sense from various things I've read is that this is all probably a net negative, but I'm not too sure that the net is negative enough to make it an issue of top importance.

Anyway, it looks like job loss from off shoring is starting to level off, while job loss due to automation, which has already killed more jobs than offshoring, continues apace and will nearly extinguish the manufacturing sector by mid century at latest. This in turn will finally make the issue of offshoring moot.

And the legal person that costs $100 is usually insured, bonded, paying taxes, employer has to pay health insurance, unemployment insurance, sick days, vacation days, meet safety regulations concerning cleaning supplies and chemicals, etc.

you know all those things Americans want legit companies and legal labor to abide by until you have to pay for it than somehow you come out with some bullshit mental gymnastics and claim how paying the illegal $40 helps you prop up the economy with the other $60.


Back in the day they used to justify slavery with similar bullshit economic logic, because paying a free man was too expensive.

 

[1prophet]

Here in New York, they don't get any EBT. They're just not prosecuted for their immigration status so they actually have to work hard to pay rent, eat, send money home to family which is a bit harder than normal American citizens who are entitled to EBT benefits.

I don't know how other states are.

Can you confirm that illegals get foodstamps/ welfare/ ebt in your state or is this just conservate logic rhetoric that is just not true?

You must be thinking of single childless illegals, but the biggest systematic abuse of benefits in new york state is not the illegals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/n...-not-the-image-of-the-poorest-place.html?_r=0

 

[Greenman]

I'm very surprised at the pole results. I would have guessed that the majority of people here wouldn't have considered it a problem at all.

 

[ivwshane]

Of all the people who think this is a top issue, how many of you voted for a republican congressman and plan to do so again?

Why? If this is such an important issue why would you vote for republicans, who en masse, either voted against a bill that would address the immigration issue in a very comprehensive way or didn't bother to address the issue themselves?

I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this contradiction of actions.

 

[Humpy]

Define what is a small percentage? Some data suggests that 1 in 10 children born in this country have parents who are illegal immigrants. That is a lot of free healthcare.

When Obama leaves office the U.S. will likely have $20 trillion in debt. I know people like to pretend that this is not an issue but when you continually promise and spend more that is take in..... Something will have to give eventually.

3 or 4 percent of the population being illegal would reasonably seem to be considered a small percentage?

I don't know how 1 in 10 births is a meaningful statistic? All those newborns are legal US citizens. Is there a debate over which newborns get citizenship and which don't? If cost is an issue it seems we should logically consider limiting citizenship to those who can pay their own way. If there is going to be a conversation about providing healthcare (why healthcare of all things?) for American children a hell of a lot more will need to be included than just those of illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigration and the debt will exist regardless of who the president is until the group of people who actually have the authority decide something needs to be done.

 

[Zaap]

Typical liberal.

Lol. You're as bone stupid as the dumbest leftists here accuse you of being. How is it you haven't drowned yourself in the rain by now?

 

[retrospooty]

I'd support unlimited immigration as well... if all social safety nets were removed.

As long as there's any form of welfare, unlimited immigration is unsustainable for a country that wants to maintain a high standard of living. Just like water, everything will settle at the lowest level.

I have to agree with you there. Welfare needs to be abolished, except in extreme circumstances. This country became great when everyone had to work hard to succeed. That necessity, that desire is what made us a superpower. It was everyone together striving for a better life... Now it is WAY too easy for people to skate by and collect from "mama fed" and 1/2 ass it.

 

[Zaap]

So, for example, let's say a professional couple who don't have the time to clean their own house decide to hire illegals to do it for $40/week, whereas they would have to pay $100/week for legal labor. So they have an additional $60/week, which immediately improves their standard of living, and most importantly, the $60 can be spent on additional goods and services which supports other jobs. It's the same with cheap goods shipped from overseas.

Heh. I just love the circular logic of this. It's the old "taking baseball bats to people's car windows improves their lives because it creates work employing glass repairmen" argument.

I'm sure mechanics, plumbers, electricians, construction workers (OMG zaap, none of those dirty foreigners can do things like that! They're all servants and maids!) can take solace that their once high-paying jobs being turned into "shit jobs Americans won't do" are good for them because their former employers are rolling in extra dough that's "good for the economy".

With this logic, let's replace every job with a lower-paid illegal worker. It'll be good for everyone! All the extra people here in the country using up resources, living quarters and social services are all good for us too.

If you want a first world country- just import the third world!

 

[Zorba]

Why, now, with the number of illegal immigrants entering the country at a 40-year low, do so many people think illegal immigration is a major problem?

American companies have been off-shoring jobs for years. Manufacturing jobs have been shifting to low-wage countries for years. So ask yourself: Who could possibly benefit by fooling Americans into believing that it's the big, bad illegal immigrants who are to blame for the losses of unskilled jobs in America?

The right-wing grass roots are a bunch of gullible hacks

Can someone not believe that both are a huge issue? Illegal immigration and off shoring of manufacturing jobs significantly hurt the lower and lower-middle classes.

A high school drop out used to be able to get a decent construction or farm job, now they can work at McDonald's or get welfare, since illegal immigrates now take those positions in many states.

Someone with a high school degree used to be able to get a very good union factory job, now they can work at Wal-Mart or get welfare, since all the good factory jobs have been shipped out of the country.

We should be punishing companies and management of those companies that hire illegals. We should also put tariffs in place on imports from countries that don't meet our labor and environmental standards.

 

[zephyrprime]

The reason we have illegal immigration is very simple. Rich companies want the cheap labor. The politicians are corrupt and take money from donors so that is why we get no action on this issue from either side of the political spectrum.

 

[piasabird]

What makes immigration more of a problem is birthright citizenship for any fool who comes across the border illegally. People are overstaying their education visas. Chinese are coming here just to give birth and often sneak through our ports. Idiots in congress keep approving h1b visas for people from India to come and take all our computer programming jobs.

I think we need a death sentence for anyone that rents an apartment to an illegal or anyone that hires an illegal. This would help to solve the problem.

 

[positivedoppler]

Illegal Immigration is a big deal in this country, but confronting it the way most politicians present it is like hoping to solve gun violence by outlawing guns.

You have to tackle to root of the problem. The War on Drugs has completely wreck Mexico. Look at Canada. We don't seem to have an illegal immigration problem with Canada.

 

[retrospooty]

Illegal Immigration is a big deal in this country, but confronting it the way most politicians present it is like hoping to solve gun violence by outlawing guns. You have to tackle to root of the problem. The War on Drugs has completely wreck Mexico. Look at Canada. We don't seem to have an illegal immigration problem with Canada.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. At least closer than anyone else I have seen on this thread. There is so much blaming going on and zero accountability.

 

[BoberFett]

I think you have hit the nail on the head. At least closer than anyone else I have seen on this thread. There is so much blaming going on and zero accountability.

I'd agree as well. If I had a knee jerk reaction to your other thread, I apologize. It just struck as me as yet another thread to blame all of the world's ills on the right, as if they have a lock on stupidity. The stupidity of the right on immigration is only matched by the stupidity of the left on immigration. Ultimately no politicians is interested in actually addressing it outside of useless talking points and political sound bites. The only use either party has for the immigration debate is to rally the troops. Fixing it would cost them future support.

 

[retrospooty]

If I had a knee jerk reaction to your other thread, I apologize. It just struck as me as yet another thread to blame all of the world's ills on the right, as if they have a lock on stupidity. The stupidity of the right on immigration is only matched by the stupidity of the left on immigration.

No worries. I could see how you thought that, I did call out the reps. So true both sides are FOS. Honestly, my "issue" with the right is not so much what was asked in that thread but "what happened to you, and why did you let nutjobs take over?" - I guess that is a stupid question. The parties used to balance each other out, now they just both rob us blind and laugh all the way to the bank. Literally.

 

[ivwshane]

I'd agree as well. If I had a knee jerk reaction to your other thread, I apologize. It just struck as me as yet another thread to blame all of the world's ills on the right, as if they have a lock on stupidity. The stupidity of the right on immigration is only matched by the stupidity of the left on immigration. Ultimately no politicians is interested in actually addressing it outside of useless talking points and political sound bites. The only use either party has for the immigration debate is to rally the troops. Fixing it would cost them future support.

God damn you are so fucking annoying with your bullshit "both sides are the same" spiel!

Tell me again how both sides are the same and neither party wants to fix/address the issue?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00167

Past voting positions:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-in-1986-and-2013-eight-of-them-flip-flopped/

http://m.immigrationpolicy.org/?url...13-senate-immigration-bill&utm_referrer=#2830

The bill, btw, died in the republican controlled house. The difference between dems and reps in this particular case couldn't be starker, all no votes (32 of them) came from repubs.

 

[Jaskalas]

Of all the people who think this is a top issue, how many of you voted for a republican congressman and plan to do so again?

Why? If this is such an important issue why would you vote for republicans, who en masse, either voted against a bill that would address the immigration issue in a very comprehensive way or didn't bother to address the issue themselves?

I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this contradiction of actions.

With Reagan he was promised two things:

1. The border would be secure.
2. He'd only be granting amnesty to 1 million, reports are it turned out to be 3 million.

The issue of illegals has been nothing but lies meant to placate us, for over 30 years. "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" is another word for Amnesty. A means to the end... of legalizing and keeping the border open. Build the wall first. Security before all else.

Stem the tide, and then I'll believe assimilation is both possible and due.

 

[ivwshane]

With Reagan he was promised two things:

1. The border would be secure.
2. He'd only be granting amnesty to 1 million, reports are it turned out to be 3 million.

The issue of illegals has been nothing but lies meant to placate us, for over 30 years. "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" is another word for Amnesty. A means to the end... of legalizing and keeping the border open. Build the wall first. Security before all else.

Stem the tide, and then I'll believe assimilation is both possible and due.

Yes and the immigration bill did all that. No amnesty would be granted without the border being secured.

Again, everything you guys are asking for was in that bill and some how you guys still support the repubs or stick to the bullshit claim that no party wants to fix the issue. I've shown you the facts, you either don't care about them or you really don't care about immigration as an issue.

 

[compuwiz1]

The left screams bloody murder about immigration reform. The right screams bloody murder about immigration reform. Both have their reasons, but they are all in it for a gain. People coming to America, legal or not, makes their agendas more profitable. Uneducated workers will vote for those who gave them a chance to work here and if the "guy" who let the fences down was a Democrat, or a Republican, they would vote for that "guy". People don't support the law, they just support who is using them in the most comfortable way, for them.

Right now the Democrats are making them the most comfortable with freebies, low enforcement of laws and sanctuary.