Is hyperthreading worth a reduction in clock speed?

[neoacid]

Well here's the deal. I'm looking for a cheap way to get better response from my system. I have a 2 year old mobo (Gigabyte 8INXP) that runs on a 533 mhz bus with a pentium 4 2.53ghz. Back when I made this purchase, i intentionally bought 2.53 even though the 3.06 was out because of the price difference.

I believe I can get better response with hyperthreading in my system. I do a lot of multitasking -- my windows taskbar is 2 times the default size and I usually have about 15-20 windows in it.

Now if I stay with a proc that matches my mobo bus speed of 533, the 3.06 is only proc with HT. Only thing is, that proc is still priced like it's only a year old. And on pricewatch, I do a comparison and see that the 3.0ghz with a 800mhz bus is like $50 cheaper. Plus, i think i remember reading that the 3.06 is a power hog.

My question is, could I buy the pentium 3.0 with HT and 800mhz bus and have it perform better than the 2.53ghz that I currently have? I'm assuming that I can ramp my mobo's bus from 133 to 150mhz (making the proc run at 2.25ghz). It will be a slower proc speed than what I have right now, but will the HT compensate for that in a multitasking environment? Also, do you think that I can achieve a stable system considering that my mobo has bus speed settings from 133 to 200mhz and I am using DDR400 memory? I've never OC'd it before, so I don't know if it can actually go to a bus speed of 200.

 

[Furen]

Most likely not. You'd be better off buying a pentium D 805/820 and a crappy motherboard since the older procesors are becoming rare and, thus, more expensive. You could also check out Fry's deals (www.outpost.com) to see if they offer a decent DDR motherboard with a CPU.

 

[stevty2889]

If the motherboard only supports 533FSB, you can not run a 800mhz FSB cpu and underclock it. I tried that once, and it fried the motherboard and power supply..

 

[neoacid]

Most likely not. You'd be better off buying a pentium D 805/820 and a crappy motherboard since the older procesors are becoming rare and, thus, more expensive. You could also check out Fry's deals (www.outpost.com) to see if they offer a decent DDR motherboard with a CPU.

Just checking on pricewatch and ebay, i could probably get a P4 3.0ghz 800 fsb for somewhere between $100-130. On the other hand, if I go to a pentium D, I think I have to get a new mobo, psu, and memory, which is gonna end up costing more than that.

If the motherboard only supports 533FSB, you can not run a 800mhz FSB cpu and underclock it. I tried that once, and it fried the motherboard and power supply..

My mobo supports a fsb from 100 to 200 mhz (or 400 to 800 QDR). The cpu I have now runs at 133mhz fsb. I'm only planning to increase the fsb to 150mhz (or 600mhz QDR), which will make the 3.0ghz run at 2.25ghz, roughly 200mhz slower than my current cpu (2.53ghz). I'm thinking that isn't going to stress any components in my system.

However, I am wondering about the cpu voltage. The manual for my mobo shows that it definitely supports adjusting the voltage between 1.5V to 1.75V. It also has a setting that allows the mobo to select the right voltage based on what's coded inside the cpu. I'm wondering if that means that the mobo can supply a lower voltage if the cpu requires something lower than 1.5V. From the websites i've scanned, it looks like there are several voltages for the p4 3.0ghz, some as low as 1.287V. It also seems like there are several versions of this cpu. I've seen it where they call it a P4 3.0A or 3.0C. Anybody know how I can differentiate and get one that works with my mobo? Or can my mobo supply a low enough voltage to work with all of them?

 

[stevty2889]

If the motherboard does not support the CPU, you can't run it. Doesn't matter if it can OC to 800mhz FSB or not. It won't have the right voltages, and won't have the right microcode for the CPU. Learn from my experience, I tried it once, and fried the motherboard and PSU. Had a motherboard that supported 400mhz FSB, but could OC to 533mhz FSB. Tried to run a 533mhz FSB P4 on it, it booted to windows, and then pop, by bye PSU and bye bye motherboard. It's your money, so try it if you want, but I advise highly against it..

 

[dguy6789]

I would suggest either:

A. Break down and buy a Pentium D 805 and a cheapo mainboard that supports ddr+agp.

B. While it is a bit expensive, if you absolutely cannot do A, then shell out for the 3.06ghz with HT. The difference between 2.53 and 3.06 would give you a moderate boost, add to that the benefit of HT, and your machine will have considerably more processor power.


Do not get an 800mhz FSB 3Ghz. Even if it would work in your mainboard(others hear have pointed out that it won't, but I myself have not tried) a 2.25Ghz HT cpu would not be faster than a 2.53Ghz non HT cpu by any noticable amount.

 

[LTC8K6]

If the 800fsb chip you are considering is a Prescott, you can definitely forget it on several levels.

Either spring for the 3.06/533 chip, or spring for a new mobo/cpu combo.

You might also look at Powerleap. They have a 3.2/HT/1MB cache adapter for 533 bus systems you might consider. I believe it is $249.00.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: neoacid

Most likely not. You'd be better off buying a pentium D 805/820 and a crappy motherboard since the older procesors are becoming rare and, thus, more expensive. You could also check out Fry's deals (www.outpost.com) to see if they offer a decent DDR motherboard with a CPU.

Just checking on pricewatch and ebay, i could probably get a P4 3.0ghz 800 fsb for somewhere between $100-130. On the other hand, if I go to a pentium D, I think I have to get a new mobo, psu, and memory, which is gonna end up costing more than that.

If the motherboard only supports 533FSB, you can not run a 800mhz FSB cpu and underclock it. I tried that once, and it fried the motherboard and power supply..

My mobo supports a fsb from 100 to 200 mhz (or 400 to 800 QDR). The cpu I have now runs at 133mhz fsb. I'm only planning to increase the fsb to 150mhz (or 600mhz QDR), which will make the 3.0ghz run at 2.25ghz, roughly 200mhz slower than my current cpu (2.53ghz). I'm thinking that isn't going to stress any components in my system.

However, I am wondering about the cpu voltage. The manual for my mobo shows that it definitely supports adjusting the voltage between 1.5V to 1.75V. It also has a setting that allows the mobo to select the right voltage based on what's coded inside the cpu. I'm wondering if that means that the mobo can supply a lower voltage if the cpu requires something lower than 1.5V. From the websites i've scanned, it looks like there are several voltages for the p4 3.0ghz, some as low as 1.287V. It also seems like there are several versions of this cpu. I've seen it where they call it a P4 3.0A or 3.0C. Anybody know how I can differentiate and get one that works with my mobo? Or can my mobo supply a low enough voltage to work with all of them?

Wait, what? If your motherboard supports a 200mhz fsb (800QDR), why not just run the 800fsb cpu at that speed? The only reason I'd see not to would be if you don't have pc3200 capable memory. (if you have pc2700, it can most likely make pc3200 at relaxed timings)
BTW, there are some pentium capable motherbaords that use ddr.

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: neoacid

Most likely not. You'd be better off buying a pentium D 805/820 and a crappy motherboard since the older procesors are becoming rare and, thus, more expensive. You could also check out Fry's deals (www.outpost.com) to see if they offer a decent DDR motherboard with a CPU.

Just checking on pricewatch and ebay, i could probably get a P4 3.0ghz 800 fsb for somewhere between $100-130. On the other hand, if I go to a pentium D, I think I have to get a new mobo, psu, and memory, which is gonna end up costing more than that.

If the motherboard only supports 533FSB, you can not run a 800mhz FSB cpu and underclock it. I tried that once, and it fried the motherboard and power supply..

My mobo supports a fsb from 100 to 200 mhz (or 400 to 800 QDR). The cpu I have now runs at 133mhz fsb. I'm only planning to increase the fsb to 150mhz (or 600mhz QDR), which will make the 3.0ghz run at 2.25ghz, roughly 200mhz slower than my current cpu (2.53ghz). I'm thinking that isn't going to stress any components in my system.

However, I am wondering about the cpu voltage. The manual for my mobo shows that it definitely supports adjusting the voltage between 1.5V to 1.75V. It also has a setting that allows the mobo to select the right voltage based on what's coded inside the cpu. I'm wondering if that means that the mobo can supply a lower voltage if the cpu requires something lower than 1.5V. From the websites i've scanned, it looks like there are several voltages for the p4 3.0ghz, some as low as 1.287V. It also seems like there are several versions of this cpu. I've seen it where they call it a P4 3.0A or 3.0C. Anybody know how I can differentiate and get one that works with my mobo? Or can my mobo supply a low enough voltage to work with all of them?

Wait, what? If your motherboard supports a 200mhz fsb (800QDR), why not just run the 800fsb cpu at that speed? The only reason I'd see not to would be if you don't have pc3200 capable memory. (if you have pc2700, it can most likely make pc3200 at relaxed timings)
BTW, there are some pentium capable motherbaords that use ddr.

His motherboard only officialy supports 533mhz FSB, it can overclock to 800mhz FSB, it's an older chipset, it has no support for prescott and no support for 800mhz FSB northwoods, in any way shape or form.

 

[Maxspeed996]

Ya , Listen to Stevty.....you'r board won't support that chip. It's not that it's a bad chip either , its a pretty decent chip. But your board won't like it.

 

[neoacid]

I've been doing more reading and came to realize that there are several different 3.0ghz 800mhz fsb cpus. Apparently, there is the P4 3.0c, which is the northwood that has 512KB of cache and runs at 800mhz, and then there is the P4 3.0e, which is the prescott that has 1MB of cache and runs at 800mhz. These are the only two that have the 478 socket. Visiting Intel's website, I also see that there are several of the P4 3.0c cpus with different "s Spec Numbers." The P4 3.0c with s Spec Number SL7BK shows it takes a core voltage of 1.525V, which is attainable by my board.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/script...3&PkgType=ALL&SysBusSpd=ALL&CorSpd=ALL

Stevty, you said:

Learn from my experience, I tried it once, and fried the motherboard and PSU. Had a motherboard that supported 400mhz FSB, but could OC to 533mhz FSB. Tried to run a 533mhz FSB P4 on it, it booted to windows, and then pop, by bye PSU and bye bye motherboard.

Can you clarify? Did your mobo have a maximum setting of 533mhz? If so, then that means you tried to OC to the highest setting your mobo supported.
You also said

[His mobo has] no support for 800mhz FSB northwoods, in any way shape or form.

In my situation, I'm not attempting to reach 800mhz. My mobo manual says that it can go all the way to 800mhz, but am only trying to achieve 650mhz fsb, which i assume to be only a moderate OC attempt. The cpu is still a northwood version C with 512kb of cache on a .13 micron process exactly like my old cpu, and there is no new technological features -- my mobo already supports HT and SSE2 -- so I don't see a problem with the mobo recognizing the cpu. Also, if the voltage requirement for the p4 3.0c cpu is 1.525V as I wrote above, underclocking it will require less voltage, so I assume I will not be overloading the psu or motherboard's power supply capabilities and risk frying them. My mobo does officially support the 3.06 which has a TDP of 81.9W, and that's exactly the same as the P4 3.0c.

I'm interested to know your thoughts about my assumptions or if I am overlooking something.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: neoacid

I believe I can get better response with hyperthreading in my system. I do a lot of multitasking -- my windows taskbar is 2 times the default size and I usually have about 15-20 windows in it.

I can't say whether HT works as well as dual care, since I have no basis for comparison. However, I went from a 3400+ SC to a 4400 X2 DC and XPro loves it. Even though I lost 200Mhz in the change, multi-tasking is a breeze now.

 

[Auric]

GA-8INXP CPU Support List.

 

[Fox5]

At this point in time, I think a low cost Pentium Dual Core would be a superior investment to a rare and underclocked cpu with hyperthreading.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135222 Here's a motherboard that supports ddr and dual core.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131567 Here's another.
I'm sure there are more as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131565 Ah, here's another.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116001
And a cheap dual core, so for under $200 you could have a dual core system and continue using your current ddr memory, and it would run rings around any single core with hyperthreading, especially when it'd cost about the same at least to get a 3ghz p4c.