Some new heatsinks are using "heat pipes", which contain heat-conducting fluid. (Another pic). Upon heating up, the fluid evaporates and carries heat to the opposite end of the metal tube. However, is this really any better than simply using a solid copper pipe for heat transfer?
Is "heat pipe" technology any better than solid copper?
- Thread starter Leo V
- Start date
I know that the first Itaniums used this technology and those chips got hot! Not sure if it is better, just thought I would throw in a "real world" use.
Heat pipes are cool... literally, as well as figuratively... because they actually use the thermal energy of device being cooled to power the cooling action. Unlike a fan or refrigeration system, to the extent the system works, it requires no added power to run it. One good use for heat pipe technology would be to quickly spread the heat from the small area of a CPU die across a larger heatsink.
Are there any CPU cooling solutions currently available that uses this technology?
Will it help in extreme overclocking situations? how does it compare to watercooling?
Will it help in extreme overclocking situations? how does it compare to watercooling?
Heat pipes move heat from one area to another. They are "better" than copper for moving heat around. However, you still need to dump the heat into something (a heatsink). In this respect, a heat pipe isn't better than a copper heat sink.
Ryan
Ryan
Another upcoming product using a heat pipe is the fanless VGA heatsink from Zalman. They claim it will handle even a GeForce4 Ti4600.
Yeah, I read those things guzzle up 130 watts of heat! Same for Itanium 2.
Maybe with heatpipes, we'll see the entire PC chassis become one huge heatsink?Where does the heat go though? It looks like it is being transferred from one side of the chip to the other, which doesn't seem like it would do any good. Am I missing something here?
Ryan
If I'm thinking correctly (highly questionable, but oh, well) the heat is transferred to the air due to damn large surface area. Dunno how well it works, though; I have my doubts, as well.
As for heatpipes, I think they're a pretty good idea, depending on the implementation. Vaporizing liquids takes a huge amount of energy (relative to raising a liquid or solid's temperature) so the liquid that remains will stay cooler, longer, than an equivelent solid. But, you still have to dissipate the heat (thereby changing the gas back to liquid) in one way or another, otherwise the heat vaporizes all the liquid and you end up with high temperature/high pressure pipes.
In relation to solid copper pipes, I assume it's better because with solid metal, the heat spreads out evenly throughout the whole pipe, so you're looking at like <50% cooling efficiency. With a heat pipe, the gas is where most of the heat is transferred and stored, so the liquid end stays cooler relatively. You could look at a refrigerator as a heatpipe implementation with an inline compressor installed.
This is all my own theorizing, so if I'm blowing smoke, feel free to blow it away...
I believe the heatsink above the videocard can dissipate heat better, since hot air can move upwards, through the CPU heatsink, and out of the case. (The total surface area is also doubled w/two heatsinks.) The standard downward-facing VGA heatsink is stuck in a low-airflow area.
Sahakiel, thanks for the explanation. Sounds like an endothermic reaction helps actually "pump" heat from source to destination. (edit: maybe not)
Sahakiel, thanks for the explanation. Sounds like an endothermic reaction helps actually "pump" heat from source to destination. (edit: maybe not)
OK, I can buy that explanation. You believe that they are using a heatpipe to transfer heat from the top of the GPU to the back of the GPU where it can escape upward in an area of improved airflow.
Ryan
Also, I think in the conventional (downwards facing) heatsink, hot air gets trapped underneath the card. Hot air is lighter than cool air, but its escape is blocked by the VGA card itself! So it must give some of the dissipated heat back to the videocard as it tries to escape! (Esp. with fanless cooling.) The heatpipe neatly helps bypass this "heat trap", the way I see it.
I don't think there is any sort of chemical reaction that occurs in these pipes. What does happen is that the liquid has a low boiling point, maybe around 30 C. As heat is added to the bottom of the pipe, the liquid begins to boil and travel up the pipe. Another heatsink is attached at the top of the pipe that removes heat from the vapor and cools it below the boiling point. The vapor condenses and a wick material on the sides of the pipe absorbs the liquid and carries it to the bottom. The cycle then repeats. Boiling liquid can carry away a lot of energy, and that is why these heatpipes are very effective at transferring heat.
Ryan
I was never good in chemistry I shouldn't have used the word endothermic. Thanks for explaining all this!
I shouldn't have used the word endothermic. Thanks for explaining all this!A big benefit of having a heatsink on the "back" of a video card is the CPU's heatsink & fan often channels air directly to the video card.
Heat is heat. If a device is using a given amount of power will put out a given amount of heat. Heat kills IC's because it is concentrated in the local area of the die, so the object is to remove the heat from the device as quickly as possible to keep it from frying.
You still have to dissipate that heat into a larger, cooler environment, but as I said, earlier, one of the really nice parts of the technology is that, unlike a fan, heat pipes use the thermal energy to do their job.
I understand that Harvey, but if you look at the picture of the proposed cooling solution, there are two heatsinks, one on top of the GPU and one on the back. A heatpipe connects the two heatsinks. My question was what the advantage of this configuration is, but now I understand that it will move heat from a poorly ventilated area to a well ventilated area. However, no matter how you look at it, the heatpipe has to dump the heat energy somewhere in order to function properly. This is why I was confused.
Ryan
Wow - so, any idea when heat pipe units will be commercially available for CPUs? My Volcano 6cu is loud & obnoxious, which is fine during the summer when its hot & I have a room fan and/or AC going, but when I go back to school, I'll have my comp in my room, I won't have the fan on during the winter, and some quieter operation would be nice!! Not to mention the reduced load on the PS.
Keep this thread updated if anyone says any of these for sale!!
Keep this thread updated if anyone says any of these for sale!!
Evadman
Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
- Feb 18, 2001
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Heatpipes are already used in a large amount of notebooks beacuse the space required for the heatsink is too large to fit directly over the CPU.
The only thing no one has mentioned, is that you can overload a heat pipe to where it will not conduct any more heat. then the CPU is toast. That is why some heatpipes are so large comapied tot he cooling area needed. insurace.
The only thing no one has mentioned, is that you can overload a heat pipe to where it will not conduct any more heat. then the CPU is toast. That is why some heatpipes are so large comapied tot he cooling area needed. insurace.
Heatpipes are useful for moving heat away from your CPU quickly, but you still need something to cool the heatpipe. Can't toss out that noisy fan yet.
Ryan
Heat pipes are very good in spaces (like laptops) where you dont have room for a CPU and a HSF in the same area. The Heatpipes transport the heat to a suitable area.
Ah, ok, that make sense....
But still - are there commercially available, decent-size heat pipes? I found the CoolerMaster HHC-001 "heat pipe" HSF, but I see that as being half-a$$ed. What I'm thinking is this (same pic linked in top of thread), then you put a larger, lower RPM fan on the separated heat sink. This should open up so many possibilities!! Think about it - you still get large CFM, but with a larger fan, it's lower RPM, and so less of that whiny fan-noise. The heat sink could potentially be mounted right over an exhaust port, so you kill too birds with one stone - you cool the CPU with the same fan that exhausts the hot air, which could reduce the number of fans in the case (like they did in the MiniPC in the link).
Sounds like a great idea to me, and maybe the next "new thing" for cooling - not quite as complicated and expensive as water-cooling, but more effective than current HSF designs.
But still - are there commercially available, decent-size heat pipes? I found the CoolerMaster HHC-001 "heat pipe" HSF, but I see that as being half-a$$ed. What I'm thinking is this (same pic linked in top of thread), then you put a larger, lower RPM fan on the separated heat sink. This should open up so many possibilities!! Think about it - you still get large CFM, but with a larger fan, it's lower RPM, and so less of that whiny fan-noise. The heat sink could potentially be mounted right over an exhaust port, so you kill too birds with one stone - you cool the CPU with the same fan that exhausts the hot air, which could reduce the number of fans in the case (like they did in the MiniPC in the link).
Sounds like a great idea to me, and maybe the next "new thing" for cooling - not quite as complicated and expensive as water-cooling, but more effective than current HSF designs.
The mini-systems made by shuttle use heat pipe technology to cool the cpu. I think anand has done some reviews of them.
As some other posters have very elegantly explained, that transition from liquid (water) to gas (steam) eats up a tremendous amount of energy.... but it has to be transferred BACK to water for the system to be effective. In the Shuttle Mini-PCs (I think the SS40G with the Athlon), the heat pipes are used to transfer the heat to a "radiator" near the fan of the case. Or in the Itanium case (I believe), they let the "heat pipes" travel up to the top or back of the case where they are better ventilated, thus allowing the steam to change back into water (because energy dissipation is easier/better in the more well-ventilated environment).
Also note that this "process" is basically what goes on in EVERY air conditioning system. Freon (or some nicer fluid) changes from a liquid to a vapor (or vice versa) to absorb/dissipate heat in places with different temperatures. Your radiator in your car also works on a similar principle.
Heat pipes will probably catch on quite a bit eventually (as chips get smaller and hotter). Watercooling (which used to be a supercomputer only field) is now starting up in the desktop arena.... I wouldn't be surprised if an all out "cooling" system (similar to an A/C system) debuted in a few years. "Heat pipes" might be an intermediate step--but as one poster noted, you can't get rid of the noisy fan yet... you have to dissipate that heat somehow.
Cheers!
Also note that this "process" is basically what goes on in EVERY air conditioning system. Freon (or some nicer fluid) changes from a liquid to a vapor (or vice versa) to absorb/dissipate heat in places with different temperatures. Your radiator in your car also works on a similar principle.
Heat pipes will probably catch on quite a bit eventually (as chips get smaller and hotter). Watercooling (which used to be a supercomputer only field) is now starting up in the desktop arena.... I wouldn't be surprised if an all out "cooling" system (similar to an A/C system) debuted in a few years. "Heat pipes" might be an intermediate step--but as one poster noted, you can't get rid of the noisy fan yet... you have to dissipate that heat somehow.
Cheers!
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