sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,225
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Powerful people with no limit to their power steal obvious things all the time.
Weak copout.
Powerful people with no limit to their power steal obvious things all the time.
It is obvious? If it was, why did it disappear for so long? Why wasn't it granted to Slaves, Women, Gays?
Oh, so because at different points in history people rights have been taken than they must not be rights? How do you say? Fail.
I said no such thing. I'm merely inquiring where you guys think these Rights come from.
You even pre-assumed them too by using them as examples of people who's rights were oppressed.
Liberty is the default. It is what exists in the absence of oppression.
Now we're getting somewhere. I agree with this. Rights are a declaration of principles meant to ensure Natural Liberty in a Synthetic World. As such they are not a Given or as obvious as Life. The Synthetic World runs roughshod over the Natural, thus the concept of Rights are used to restore a part of the Natural World within the Synthetic World. This is why All haven't had their Rights from the beginning of the US(and Others) Constitution/Bill of Rights. The Synthetic World has needed to be forced to relinquish its' grip, one layer at a time, thus spreading Liberty to more and more.
So you agree, rights are not "granted" by our government, they are merely secured.
Glad you came around.
If a fetus has the right to life, does that mean that right should be fulfilled by the government, or does the fetus only have the freedom to live, if it's able to make it out of the womb alive?
Not exactly. "Rights" are granted, Liberty isn't. Rights exist to ensure/restore Liberty. This is why they are enshrined in Documents, Judged by Courts, and constantly being sought or denied. When you say "secured", I can understand where you're coming from now, but me saying "granted" is also correct, although I see where the discrepancy/confusion comes into play now.
Hmm, I'll have to mull it over for awhile. The Philosophical subtleties are intriguing.
Uh oh. You're in danger of thinking about some things like I do!
By the way, rights are specific liberties.
Think of liberty as the car, and rights as the individual parts of that car.
A car is worthless without roads built by government.
The alternative question: Is it right to force a human to be a life support system for another human?
We do it everyday. Our entire system laws and government that defines your rights is paid for by tax payers. The infrastructure to regulate those rights from the courts to the Sheriff to enforce them are forced out of me..
All we are bargaining about is how much.
The government doesn't define my rights, it secures them.
The government exists to secure our individual rights.
Yes, and the government should secure our right to healthcare, so that we don't have to steal it from providers.
Yes, and the government should secure our right to healthcare, so that we don't have to steal it from providers.
The government doesn't define my rights, it secures them.
The government exists to secure our individual rights.
Every right you have is defined by the govt or as Jefferson would say "instituted among men" Property rights, contract rights, speech rights, whatever and it secures them with tax money. It's all a human creation, thought up and built by humans and can be changed by humans if any of its workings become destructive to the lives of humans.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
You already have access to health care services provided by professionals, the governments role is over, now it's your responsibility to provide adequate payment for services rendered.
What if they price services rendered for 2 years of cancer treatment above a lifetime of income?
Well someone is definitely an entitlement whore! You shouldn't be guaranteed anything more than the right to life peace and happiness. The Government cannot guarantee a job healthcare nor even food, yet they wish to burden the working class with taxes so that nonworking people can live comfortably.
I am not going to pay for someone else to sit on their ass while I work 40-50 hour work weeks.
That's when you should have insurance.
In the real world, 50 million Americans don't have health insurance. If you looked at the prices of individual health insurance you'd see why.
