Is democracy highly over rated?

[airdata]

It is over-rated.

I voted for Obama, but my state's votes went to McCain. So really, my vote was meaningless. ( Yes I regret voting just in general and voting for obama because of lack of actual change )

All of the politicians are in debt to the same corporations and the same lobbyists. So, in essence... we pretty much have a dictator here. Corporations make our laws and policy, regardless of who is in office.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

For every ignorant person on the left, there are 100 ignorant, or close minded bigots on the right.

People who wish to play tyrants make up for the other 99. Good job.

 

[Mursilis]

People like DCal430 are the reason I refuse to vote Democrat.

Amen. The right may suffer from an abundance of ignorance, but the smugness of the left is MUCH more annoying.

 

[QuantumPion]

The issue for me isn't so much how leaders get in to power, but what they do with it. If individual liberty and rule of law is maintained, I don't think it really matters whether we have democracy, republic, or dictatorship. There have been authoritarian governments which granted better personal freedoms compared to other nations of their day, e.g. Roman Empire, Napoleon, etc. A constitutional dictatorship may work just as well as a representative republic. However I think the tendency is for dictatorships to acquire more power and corrupt more rapidly than the former.

So to answer the thread question, is democracy overrated? I say yes, but with the corollary that personal liberty backed by a strictly adhered to code of laws is underrated.

 

[Jaskalas]

They are just ignorant, and their voting reflects that.

Either their votes reflect it, or their violence reflects it. Take your pick.

 

[Jaskalas]

The issue for me isn't so much how leaders get in to power, but what they do with it. If individual liberty and rule of law is maintained, I don't think it really matters whether we have democracy, republic, or dictatorship. There have been authoritarian governments which granted better personal freedoms compared to other nations of their day, e.g. Roman Empire, Napoleon, etc. A constitutional dictatorship may work just as well as a representative republic. However I think the tendency is for dictatorships to acquire more power and corrupt more rapidly than the former.

So to answer the thread question, is democracy overrated? I say yes, but with the corollary that personal liberty backed by a strictly adhered to code of laws is underrated.

This is not a question of whether a good king is better than a bad populace.

It is the transition of power that is importaint. In all of your examples the changes in power came with a great deal of killing. All you have to do to return to the reign of terror is to remove Democracy. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are quite difficult when one is dead.

 

[Phokus]

I wrote about why our government is so broke and government doesn't really work in the US here (i actually got bamacre to agree with me) while other countries it works quite well... it's not really a consequence of government eventually becoming terrible, that's just a symptom, but it's a consequence of the character of the American people.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31272229&postcount=16

 

[1prophet]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/1044358/

 

[QuantumPion]

This is not a question of whether a good king is better than a bad populace.

It is the transition of power that is importaint. In all of your examples the changes in power came with a great deal of killing. All you have to do to return to the reign of terror is to remove Democracy. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are quite difficult when one is dead.

While I agree with your point I don't think it is relevant to mine. "Democratic" revolutions can be just as violent, and history has shown them to be orders of magnitude more so. Where as dictators tend to come to power via military coup, democratic revolutions tend to involve wiping out entire segments of the population (e.g. russia, china, viet-nam, nazi's sort of, etc.)

 

[Zebo]

I wrote about why our government is so broke and government doesn't really work in the US here (i actually got bamacre to agree with me) while other countries it works quite well... it's not really a consequence of government eventually becoming terrible, that's just a symptom, but it's a consequence of the character of the American people.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31272229&postcount=16

The Europeans are only marginally working, Protestant working ethic and debt helps combined with taxing appropriately. Problem will become apparent sooner than later because of generous welfare state. I honestly believe something for nothing fucks people up anthropologically even though I'm pro redistribution but with a price.

 

[Phokus]

The Europeans are only marginally working, Protestant working ethic and debt helps combined with taxing appropriately. Problem will become apparent sooner than later because of generous welfare state. I honestly believe something for nothing fucks people up anthropologically even though I'm pro redistribution but with a price.

Read the OP in the thread, Germany is prospering, not because of welfare, but because of government regulations that encourage small business/family owned corporations/capital to stay in Germany/exports (they've INCREASED exports to china by 45% in 2010) and they've lowered their unemployment and has becoming the envy of Europe and the rest of the developed world.

 

[Zebo]

Read the OP in the thread, Germany is prospering, not because of welfare, but because of government regulations that encourage small business/family owned corporations/capital to stay in Germany/exports (they've INCREASED exports to china by 45% in 2010) and they've lowered their unemployment and has becoming the envy of Europe and the rest of the developed world.

Yes that's power to the people instead of top .001%. It's redistributive and works. That's not the issue though but all their unfunded liabilities and increasing liabilities which has Germans paying through the nose on what they make and ultimately will wreck them since there it's easy to skate on gov dole. You'll just have to wait and see that unfold. It's human nature at work so I'm 100% confident unless welfare state is reigned in they will have issues similar to Greece.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

You should have to pass a basic education test to vote.

ie, how to do basic algebra, some true/false questions about our government's system, and some history of the country.

 

[Phokus]

Yes that's power to the people instead of top .001%. It's redistributive and works. That's not the issue though but all their unfunded liabilities and increasing liabilities which has Germans paying through the nose on what they make and ultimately will wreck them since there it's easy to skate on gov dole. You'll just have to wait and see that unfold. It's human nature at work so I'm 100% confident unless welfare state is reigned in they will have issues similar to Greece.

They have low inflation (1.3%), comparatively low unemployment (6.6%), a growing trade surplus, lower public debt (as a percentage of GDP) than we do (77% vs 93%)... i'm not seeing the problem for Germans. If anything, we should be crying about why we can't be like the Germans.

Edit:

Germany:

Revenues $1.398 trillion (2009 est.)
Expenses $1.54 trillion (2009 est.)

US:

Revenues $2.162 trillion (2010)[9]
Expenses $3.456 trillion (2010)[9

 

[Murloc]

if you're bigot and ignorant, you democrately choose to live in a bigot and ignorant state.
It would be the dictatorship of the majority, but thankfully in most civlized systems minorities are recognized.

 

[Mursilis]

They have low inflation (1.3%), comparatively low unemployment (6.6%), a growing trade surplus, lower public debt (as a percentage of GDP) than we do (77% vs 93%)... i'm not seeing the problem for Germans. If anything, we should be crying about why we can't be like the Germans.

Edit:

Germany:

Revenues $1.398 trillion (2009 est.)
Expenses $1.54 trillion (2009 est.)

US:

Revenues $2.162 trillion (2010)[9]
Expenses $3.456 trillion (2010)[9

But they're still in the red, no? Is this a pattern with them, like it is with us?

 

[Phokus]

But they're still in the red, no? Is this a pattern with them, like it is with us?

I don't see it on their wiki page, they probably are, but their trajectory is looking good. They were looking pretty bleak before their reforms, you have to remember.

 

[JS80]

We used to have a Republic. We couldn't keep it.

Yup. They figured out how to defeat it. Technically we're a republic, but effectively a democracy.

 

[Craig234]

Government is overrated.

Corporatocracy tyranny is overrated.

 

[Scotteq]

The Europeans are only marginally working, Protestant working ethic and debt helps combined with taxing appropriately. Problem will become apparent sooner than later because of generous welfare state. I honestly believe something for nothing fucks people up anthropologically even though I'm pro redistribution but with a price.

I should also point out that the Economies of Europe were pretty much destroyed in their entirety 66 years ago; and therefore what we see today has been created in the meantime (said recovery bankrolled and subsidized by the USA). Here, we have two hundred thirty years worth of accumulated fkuck ups and a tradition whereby politicians really only have to juggle the ball for 4 to 8 years before handing it off to the next guy/gal.

 

[Anarchist420]

This includes a representative democracy. Should every adult have the right to vote?

Democracy is very overrated. Monarchies are less dangerous to liberty because it's not in a monarch's best interest to destroy his/her kingdom.

Voting is not a natural right either because you can vote to take away the liberty of others. It's not a natural right, because collective violence in exchange for a different kind of collective violence is not a right.

Democracy can only work if it's powers are very limited, specifically and clearly enumerated, and if it's very decentralized. For example, there should be no direct election of anything at the Federal level.

 

[Craig234]

It is over-rated.

I voted for Obama, but my state's votes went to McCain. So really, my vote was meaningless. ( Yes I regret voting just in general and voting for obama because of lack of actual change )

Whatever you think of Obama, ya, clearly McCain/Palin would have been so much better.

 

[bamacre]

Whatever you think of Obama, ya, clearly McCain/Palin would have been so much better.

Yup, I mean picture this. With McCain now as President, we'd still be in Iraq, still be in Afghanistan. Running operations in Pakistan. Increasing the budget for the Department of Defense. Still giving away tens of billions every year in foreign aid. Bush tax cuts would have been extended. Deficits would be higher than even those under Bush. The unemployment rate wouldn't have moved. The dollar would be in trouble. Oil would be going back up again.

It'd be a fucking disaster. I pray to God every day, thanking Him for McCain not being president.

 

[Zebo]