Is CPU clock vulnerable to 2.4 GHz interference?

paulbearer

Junior Member
Apr 11, 2003
19
0
0
I was wondering if Intel P4 CPUs clocked at 2.4GHz might be vulnerable to the plethora of junk on the airwaves
at the same frequency? These sources would be cordless phones, microwave ovens, etc...

I realize that there is a big difference between a clock signal oscillating at 2.4GHz versus wireless data transmitted
over the 2.4GHz band.

I suppose that if I had something powerful enough to mess with the CPU clock, I've got bigger problems, right?
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
1
0
Absolutely, definitively, no. Radio waves coming from your phone are no where near powerful enough to interfere with the electrical signals made by your processor. They wouldn't be picked up by the processor as signals. They would interfere in the exat same manner as any other radio interference; no more, no less.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
2
0
I realize that there is a big difference between a clock signal oscillating at 2.4GHz versus wireless data transmitted
over the 2.4GHz band.
Yeah, you are comparing apples to oranges there.
 

dnoyeb

Senior member
Nov 7, 2001
283
0
0
No, 2.4GHz is 2.4GHz. Remember your talking noise, and not interpretation. Your phone is made to be a transmitter/receiver, but typically when one is bad at transmission (CPU) one is equally bad at reception. So I wouldnt expect any interferrence. Not to mention that legally the phone has to accept any noice generated by the CPU, but the phone legally MUST not interfere with any other electrical devices. all 2.4GHz components must not interfere with other components. Legally speaking. Consider the Microwave that often interfers with 2.4GHz telephones or 802.11b wifi.

Now if you were in the military you would shield it anyway ;)
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
I have to disagree with my friend and esteemed colleague. A clock and a carrier frequency for a 2.4GHz phone are very similar. At 2.4GHz with clock distribution across tens of millimeters of chip in wires that are thinner than hair, a clock waveform on a chip bears a more striking similarity to a sine wave than a square wave.

The clock route on a chip tends to be very short - relatively speaking. The wavelength of 2.4GHz is about 5" - which means that a clock route could be likened to non-ideal quarter-length dipole antenna. But it's not a very good one. For a start, the magenetic suscepetibility of SiO2 (and similarly the other materials used between wires on a chip) is very low, so the material between the wires on a chip tends not to act much like an inductor. In addition, the width and thickness of the wiring on a chip - even the relatively wide wires used for clock distribution - still result in relatively highly resistive wires. So the small inductive effect that does exist in silicon is dampened out even more. In addition, the spacing of neighboring wires to the clock signal is extremely close, so there is fairly high capacitive coupling (as I unfortunately know all too well) but it is primarily to the signals that neighbor the clock - which are always power/ground tracks by design.

But even so, were the top of a chip open to the world, you would probably be able to measure a nice 2.4GHz signal from the clock. I can't imagine that with the active drivers on the clock route that you could hope to interfere with the clock but I'm sure that you could detect a measureable signal from the chip. But the top of the chip is not open to the world. The top of the chip is covered with round bumps and is then flipped over and attached to a package that contains a whole lot more routing and metal layers. All of this metal in the die and the package acts overall like a Faraday cage.

So if you can imagine an antenna made out of thin metal that is wrapped in a material that makes for lousy inductance that is then surroundeded on two sides by extremely close neighboring wires that are tied to a low-resistance DC signal that is then wrapped in a birds nest of other wires, you can see that the clock of a chip isn't likely to result in interference, nor to be interfered with by outside sources.

I wonder how well you could detect the clock signal by looking at ripples in the power supply though. And power is routed across a PCB which makes a much better inductor than silicon... :)

It's a good subject for the highly technical forum. It beats debating whether or not the computing and semiconductor industry has made any significant advances in the last 20 years, anyway.
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Originally posted by: Ilmater
Absolutely, definitively, no. Radio waves coming from your phone are no where near powerful enough to interfere with the electrical signals made by your processor. They wouldn't be picked up by the processor as signals. They would interfere in the exat same manner as any other radio interference; no more, no less.