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Is College Worth the Investment if You are a Liberal Arts Major?

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Is College Worth the Investment if You are a Liberal Arts Major?

  • Yes

  • No


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theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,323
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So according to you what would NOT be liberal arts?
Liberal Arts serves as the theoretical foundation for pretty much any field of study. Vocational studies and other applications of theory (e.g., engineering, medicine, business) fall outside the scope of the liberal arts.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
While you are free to think that, a little bit of goggling indicates that your thinking is flawed...

For example, lets look at the liberal arts majors offered by Purdue.

http://admissions.purdue.edu/Majors_Programs/majors_college.php?ClgCd=LA

You won't see any math or natural science there.

What about the University of Texas?

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/student-affairs/Academic-Planning/Majors-and-Degrees/Degree-Plans.php

No math or natural science there either...

University of Houston?

http://www.uh.edu/academics/catalog/colleges/las/majors/gen/index.php

Not there either...

By inspection, it appears that, at least, these schools consider Liberal Arts to be the Humanities and the Social Sciences. And my experience is that that is a more conventional definition of Liberal Arts.

Uno
Anthropology which is in those colleges is actually both a Social Science and Natural Science. Anthropology includes the study of Human and Primate evolution. There is cultral and biological anthropology. There is also forensic anthrology, the study of human bones as it relates to crime.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,349
1
0
I can't even begin to fathom how you can stick to a position so stubbornly that even cursory research proving you factually incorrect doesn't sway you.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
You got caught telling a lie. Specifically:

Math and the natural sciences are part of the liberal arts and always have been. .
Now, you want to say that "Liberal Arts" and "Liberal Arts and Sciences" are the same. But they're not.

"Liberal Arts and Sciences" without the sciences becomes "Liberal Arts." That is, it becomes primarily Humanities and Social Sciences.

At the schools that I've attended, science is taught in the College of Science. And the Liberal Arts College teaches Humanities and Social Sciences.

Insulting me doesn't change that...


Uno
 
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MonkeyK

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,396
8
81
It also fits with nearly everyone dividing Liberal Arts majors and STEM majors as being mutually exclusive.
I have a BA in Physical Science from a Liberal Arts College. STEM studies are not mutually exclusive of the Liberal Arts, Liberal Arts merely refers to a greater breadth of study.

Why is the measure of value how much money one makes?
Even if we look at education as a strictly finacial transaction and bemoan any externalities, why are external costs of a liberal arts degree deemed any less noble than a Trump bankruptcy.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
Graduating from a liberal arts college doesn't mean you have a liberal arts degree. Liberal arts colleges offer degrees in engineering as well, which isn't a liberal art.

A Liberal Arts college just means the student have a well rounded education in the liberal arts in addition to their field of study.

So while an engineer in a tradition university would take few if any classes in the social sciences and humanities, engineers from a liberal arts college could take a large number of classes in the humanities and social sciences in addition to their math, science, and engineering course work.
 

theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,323
14
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You got caught telling a lie.

Now, you want to say that "Liberal Arts" and "Liberal Arts and Sciences" are the same. But they're not.

"Liberal Arts and Sciences" without the sciences becomes "Liberal Arts." That is, it becomes primarily Humanities and Social Sciences.
From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Definition of LIBERAL ARTS
1 : the medieval studies comprising the trivium and quadrivium
2 : college or university studies (as language, philosophy, literature, abstract science) intended to provide chiefly general knowledge and to develop general intellectual capacities (as reason and judgment) as opposed to professional or vocational skills

Definition of TRIVIUM
a group of studies consisting of grammar, rhetoric, and logic and forming the lower division of the seven liberal arts in medieval universities

Definition of QUADRIVIUM
a group of studies consisting of arithmetic, music, geometry, and astronomy and forming the upper division of the seven liberal arts in medieval universities

Concise Encyclopedia Explanation of LIBERAL ARTS
College or university curriculum aimed at imparting general knowledge and developing general intellectual capacities, in contrast to a professional, vocational, or technical curriculum. In Classical antiquity, the term designated the education proper to a freeman (Latin liber, “free”) as opposed to a slave. In the medieval Western university, the seven liberal arts were grammar, rhetoric, and logic (the trivium) and geometry, arithmetic, music, and astronomy (the quadrivium). In modern colleges and universities, the liberal arts include the study of literature, languages, philosophy, history, mathematics, and science.
 

TheDev

Senior member
Jun 1, 2012
206
0
0
Boy, you and she are in for a real eye-opener when you find out what's actually going on in the severely over-glutted legal profession. You should direct her to these links so she knows what's coming.

http://InsideTheLawSchoolScam.blogspot.com (written by a law prof)
http://www.JDUnderground.com
http://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordpress.com/
http://www.jdscam.blogspot.com
http://butidideverythingrightorsoithought.blogspot.com/
http://flustercucked.blogspot.com/
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/
Very interesting info about lawl school. I was actually heavily considering pursuing lawl school after I finished my useless bachelor's degree in liberal arts subjects. Instead, I decided to pursue a master's degree in computer science. Best decision I ever made. I got a high paying job right out of graduation. Couldn't be happier with the decision I made.
 

TheDev

Senior member
Jun 1, 2012
206
0
0
From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:


This thread is not about debating what "liberal arts" means. As the creator of this thread, I am using the term, "liberal arts," to differentiate from degrees in STEM or business. Yes, technically, liberal arts could encompass some sciences, but no one cares. For the purposes of this thread, "liberal arts" is not STEM or business.​
 

nanette1985

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2005
4,211
1
0
Boy, you and she are in for a real eye-opener when you find out what's actually going on in the severely over-glutted legal profession. You should direct her to these links so she knows what's coming.

http://InsideTheLawSchoolScam.blogspot.com (written by a law prof)
http://www.JDUnderground.com
http://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordpress.com/
http://www.jdscam.blogspot.com
http://butidideverythingrightorsoithought.blogspot.com/
http://flustercucked.blogspot.com/
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the interesting links. Daughter is phenomenal at making connections. She already has several job offers. Helps to have relatives in the business and connections in politics. She knew what she was getting into before she applied to law school.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,616
2,593
126
no*

*if you have a scholarship that covers the majority of your costs, go nuts. otherwise, no.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
19,116
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but no one cares.
Obviously thats not true
:p

FWIW I think there are many cases where it could be a good decision and can be leveraged into getting a great/good job. I also think there are a lot of situations where it would be a waste of money and end up not being worth it for that person in that situation. Too many variables to make a broad generalization especially given the propensity of many job offerings looking for ANY college degree not necessarily a college degree in a specific field
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,313
2
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Supply and demand does work in degree areas.
It does do an extent, but it is relatively inflexible. IT is a strong exception (way too many a decade back), but a philosophy degree has been much worse for employability than an engineering degree in 1980,1990,2000,2010.
I know several English majors that make more money than you.
Maybe you do, Capt Caveman, but you know no statisticians who would use exceptions to the rule in an attempt to nullify it.
I deal with engineers every day, the majority of them don't have the interpersonal skills to ever be decision makers, managers or leaders.
Surely you don't think a degree in history makes one more personable than a degree in physics? These uber geeks you refer to who have no social skills would be that way regardless of what course of study they chose.
whippersnapper we have more people going to college than need to go to college.
I agree, or more specifically I feel too many are going to college and spending four years getting toilet paper degrees.
This thread is not about debating what "liberal arts" means. As the creator of this thread, I am using the term, "liberal arts," to differentiate from degrees in STEM or business. Yes, technically, liberal arts could encompass some sciences, but no one cares. For the purposes of this thread, "liberal arts" is not STEM or business.
Everybody knows that's what you meant. There is a great dishonesty being perpetrated here by people with toilet paper degrees. They are trying to pretend that either their degree is not toilet paper or desperately fudging the line between it and a non-toilet paper degree, debating over minutiae.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
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I have a BA in Physical Science from a Liberal Arts College. STEM studies are not mutually exclusive of the Liberal Arts, Liberal Arts merely refers to a greater breadth of study.

Why is the measure of value how much money one makes?
Even if we look at education as a strictly finacial transaction and bemoan any externalities, why are external costs of a liberal arts degree deemed any less noble than a Trump bankruptcy.
The measure of the value of a degree is whether you actually use it, and most liberal arts are useless for careers.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,719
3,528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throckmorton
The measure of the value of a degree is whether you actually use it, and most liberal arts are useless for careers.

This is true.
Horse shit if it is. The measure of a liberal arts degree is known only to those who know it's value. No stupid asshole is going to know that. You have only to look at folk like Hay to see where the gravitas falls on this issue. There are a few people who post here who have some wisdom and lots and lots of dunces who don't know shit from shinola.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
The short-sighted assumption of this thread is that the only consideration involved in deciding whether to go to college is whether it makes economic sense.

Becoming an educated person is its own reward.
Yet you don't have to put your self into massive debt or be a major in a liberal arts program to become an educated person.
 

TheDev

Senior member
Jun 1, 2012
206
0
0
The short-sighted assumption of this thread is that the only consideration involved in deciding whether to go to college is whether it makes economic sense.

Becoming an educated person is its own reward.
lol, whether or not something makes economic sense should play a role in everything you do, especially if its something that costs tens of thousands of dollars. If it doesn't make economic sense, then that isn't a very educated decision, now is it?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,719
3,528
126
lol, whether or not something makes economic sense should play a role in everything you do, especially if its something that costs tens of thousands of dollars. If it doesn't make economic sense, then that isn't a very educated decision, now is it?
You dunce, how can you make economic sense when you don't have any idea of the value of things. To a pig, slop and mud are some of the most valuable things there are and any pig that doesn't value them isn't a pig that's worth shit.
 
Jun 19, 2004
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lol, whether or not something makes economic sense should play a role in everything you do, especially if its something that costs tens of thousands of dollars. If it doesn't make economic sense, then that isn't a very educated decision, now is it?
I understand this is an extremely difficult mental exercise for you or, anyone who views the value of education as only worth what someone else will pay you for but, try to imagine a world in which everyone thought as you do...

The world would be controlled by corporations, no governments, no protections for those without the means to pay for them, no art, music, theater. No distinctiveness, no culture beyond that of corporate greed. There would be no innovation. There would be a rigid class structure and only way to get recognition would be to earn greater profits.
 

TheDev

Senior member
Jun 1, 2012
206
0
0
You dunce, how can you make economic sense when you don't have any idea of the value of things. To a pig, slop and mud are some of the most valuable things there are and any pig that doesn't value them isn't a pig that's worth shit.
lol, well you can keep slopping around in mud while I keep making money :awe:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,719
3,528
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A Liberal Arts Education for the Freeborn

by Kathy Weitz Posted on May 18, 2012


This is an excerpt from a Philosophy of Education piece I wrote this week. I have had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Veith speak several times during my son’s freshman year at Patrick Henry College. These thoughts were inspired by his talks.

The word liberal is derived from the Latin word for free. The liberal arts in the ancient world were those disciplines considered essential for the education of a freeborn person. These disciplines were further developed and divided into the trivium and the quadrivium in the Middle Ages. The culture which resulted from this classical tradition ushered in a society that achieved individual freedoms which, though imperfect and far from universal, were unprecedented in the history of the world. Without the classical liberal arts tradition of the West, there could have been no Magna Charta, no Mayflower Compact, and no Constitution of the United States.

This, then, has been the prevailing method of education in the West over the past two millenia. Yet, during the twentieth century, education in the United States, and in much of the West, shifted away from the classical liberal arts tradition. Dr. Gene Edward Veith, provost of Patrick Henry College, contrasts classical education with the utilitarian model of education which is so prevalent today:


The (American) founders emphasized the value of a “liberal” education…Free citizens of the Roman Republic were trained to develop their mental faculties to the fullest, through the trivium and quadrivium of the so-called “liberal arts.” Slaves were given only a vocational training, taught not to think for themselves but only to serve the economy; in other words, the kind of education being demanded by many Americans today, the curriculum of slavery. ~ World Magazine, September 19, 1998 (emphasis mine)

A classical liberal arts education frees the mind to think, to discern, and to reason. It trains young people not to be swayed by every popular new idea that comes along or to remain in intellectual subjugation to the powers that be. The church, the culture, and the nation are in great need of such citizens.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
Everybody knows that's what you meant. There is a great dishonesty being perpetrated here by people with toilet paper degrees. They are trying to pretend that either their degree is not toilet paper or desperately fudging the line between it and a non-toilet paper degree, debating over minutiae.
:rolleyes:

Not really, the definition of Liberal Arts is clear it includes the mathematics and sciences.

FYI I have a degree in a STEM field.
 

theevilsharpie

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2009
2,323
14
81
:rolleyes:

Not really, the definition of Liberal Arts is clear it includes the mathematics and sciences.

FYI I have a degree in a STEM field.
+1 (...and I also have a STEM degree).

I'm used to the Liberal Arts being confused for humanities, but in this case, I'm not exactly sure what the OP is arguing. Is his arguments against the Liberal Arts an argument of theoretical degrees (e.g., math, science, literature) versus practical degrees (e.g., engineering, accounting, etc.)? Or is it an argument of "hard" subjects like Math and Natural Science versus "soft" subjects like English or Philosophy?

Since the OP isn't clear about the topic (confusing argument, non-standard usage of the term 'Liberal Arts,' etc.), it's hard to have an intelligent discussion about it.

Maybe the OP should've payed more attention in his Liberal Arts classes :p
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
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A lot of the classes required for a college degree are all about getting a well-rounded education like english, litt, psychology, socialogy, logical reasining, math, economics, statistics, foreign language, non-western classes, art, music, etc.

I guess spelling was never a very good skill.
 

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