Is Cloutier good enough?

[Garet Jax]

I would put Cloutier in the same category as Joseph, Lalime, etc.... He is a very good goalie, but is he good enough to win it all?

In my opinion, the only two superstar goalies playing right now are Hasek and Brodeur.

In my opinion, the only goalies playing right now that have the chance to get to superstar status are Luongo, Giguere and Turco (maybe Lalime).

Everyone else are good goalies who will only ever win a cup if they have a great defense in front of them and a lot of scorers on their team (ala Colorado this year with Aebischer).

Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Garet Jax]

No one has an opinion?

 

[BCYL]

Cloutier is a good goalie until he gets into pressure situations... then he just chokes... And Cloutier is too inconsistent...

I think he just need more experience... in a couple of yrs he'll probably be great...

 

[silverpig]

I wouldn't put Turco up there. Sure he has great numbers, but look who he has in front of him. I could pull off a 1.2 GAA with 10 shots per game against.

Last night he had 15 shots, 4 goals... That's a .733 save ratio.

 

[RedRooster]

The addition of Hedberg was the best decision Vancouver made this off-season. It really doesn't matter what Cloutier does, if he does well he'll play, if he chokes Hedberg will play. I think that trade was more than just a challenge to Cloutier to play better. It's insurance. And if he continues to be so inconsistent, Hedberg will be #1 with Cloutier moving elsewhere in the league, like Boston or New York.

After Saturday's performance against my pitiful Oilers, Hedberg looked pretty good. He should play a lot.

 

[Aquaman]

I think Cloutier is a pretty good goalie......... he has improved every year since we got him. But when he pulls stunts like last nights yapping which caused use a dumb penalty........... he has got to control that stuff. Yestardays game you can't blame him on the 2nd & 3rd goal but the first goal he was cheating and that should not happen.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[RedRooster]

And my response to your question is that I'd rate Cloutier below Lalime and Joseph. Cloutier is solid when he's good, but he'll never go on a roll of stealing games like Lalime and Joseph have in the past.

There's four levels of goalies in the NHL right now:
Top tier has Hasek/Brodeur
Second has Lalime/Giggy/Theodore/etc.
Third has Cloutier/Salo/etc.
Bottom has Potvin/Dunham/etc.

 

[waylman]

Is Cloutier good enough?

no

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: RedRooster
And my response to your question is that I'd rate Cloutier below Lalime and Joseph. Cloutier is solid when he's good, but he'll never go on a roll of stealing games like Lalime and Joseph have in the past.

There's four levels of goalies in the NHL right now:
Top tier has Hasek/Brodeur
Second has Lalime/Giggy/Theodore/etc.
Third has Cloutier/Salo/etc.
Bottom has Potvin/Dunham/etc.

Last November? Player of the month?

 

[Aquaman]

Also......... it does not matter what we think........ as long as the other canucks players have faith in Clouts then that should be good enough. It's when his teammates lose faith that is the problem.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[new2AMD]

Originally posted by: RedRooster
And my response to your question is that I'd rate Cloutier below Lalime and Joseph. Cloutier is solid when he's good, but he'll never go on a roll of stealing games like Lalime and Joseph have in the past.

There's four levels of goalies in the NHL right now:
Top tier has Hasek/Brodeur
Second has Lalime/Giggy/Theodore/etc.
Third has Cloutier/Salo/etc.
Bottom has Potvin/Dunham/etc.

Where does Biron fit? 3rd level or bottom?

 

[RedRooster]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: RedRooster
And my response to your question is that I'd rate Cloutier below Lalime and Joseph. Cloutier is solid when he's good, but he'll never go on a roll of stealing games like Lalime and Joseph have in the past.

There's four levels of goalies in the NHL right now:
Top tier has Hasek/Brodeur
Second has Lalime/Giggy/Theodore/etc.
Third has Cloutier/Salo/etc.
Bottom has Potvin/Dunham/etc.

Last November? Player of the month?

My "roll of stealing games" comment? Stealing games means a 1-0 shutout, not having your superpower offense score 5 goals a game and you get credit for the win with a 3 GAA performance. He only had one shutout in November(if he even played that game against the Stars), and it looks like their powerplay/penalty kill was the best during the month of November compared to the rest of the year.
Cloutier is not a top tier goalie, or second tier even. He's a young guy who can stand on his head the odd night, but is too inconsistent and has too good of an offense in front of him to be called a consistent playoff-game winning goalie.

 

[ThaPerculator]

I honestly don't think Gigeure has what it takes to be a 2nd tier/future 1st goalie. From the looks of him this season, last years playoffs were a fluke. Cloutier is pretty good, I think I'd rank him with the likes of last year's Joseph. Don't get me wrong, Joseph has had his share of real good games, but all last season he looked a little shaky. I felt more confident with Legace in net. (and yes, I watched just about every wings game last year).

 

[Aquaman]

Here is Goalies World Magazines 2002-03 regular season rankings

1 BELFOUR TOR
2 J.S.GIGUEFIE,ANA
3 OLAF KOLZIG,WSH
4 MARTY TURCO. DAL
5 ROBERTO LUONGO, FLA
6 MARTIN BRODEUR, NJ
7 PATRICK ROY, COL
8 MARC DENIS, CLB
9 TOMAS VOKOUN, NSH
10 ROMAN CECHMANEK, PHI
11 JOCELYN THIBAULT, CHI
12 DWAYNE ROLOSON, MIN
13 NIKOLAI KHABIBUUN,TB
14 PATRICK LAUME, Ott
15 MIKE DUNHAM, NYR
16 CURTIS JOSEPH, DET
17 JOSE THEODORE, MTL
18 ROMAN TUREK, CGY
19 KEVIN WEEKES, CAR
20 DAN CLOUTIER, VAN
21 TOMMY SALO, EDM
22 EVGENI NABOKOV, Si
23 MARTIN BIRON. BUF
24 MANNY FERNANDEZ, MIN
25 GARTH SNOW, NYI
26 PASI NURMINEN, ATL
27 SEAN BURKE, PHO
28 MANNY LEGACE, DET
29 JEFF HACKETT, BOS
30 JOHN GRAHAME, TB
31 SEBASTIEN CARON, PIT
32 JAMIE STORR, LA
33 DAVID AESISCHER COL
34 BRIAN BOUCHER, RHO
35 JOHAN HEDBERG, PIT
36 CHRIS OSGOOD, STL
37 JAM HURME, FLA
38 BRENT JOHNSON, STL
39 ROBERT ESCHE~ PHI
40 FELIX POTVIN, LA
41 STEVE SHIELDS, BOS
42 RON TUGNUTT. DAL
43 DAN BLACKBURN, NYR
44 ARTURS IRBE, CAR
45 FRED BRATHWAITE, STL
46 ZAC BIERK RHO
47 MARTIN GERBER, ANA
48 VESA TOSKALA, Sj
49 COREY SCHWAB, NJ
50 MIKA NORONEN, BUR
51 MARTIN PRUSEK, OTT
52 JUSSI MARKKANEN,EDM
53 S.CHARPEN11ER,WSH
54 J.SEBASTIEN AUBIN, PIT
55 CRISTOBAL HUET, LA
56 RYAN MILLER, BUF
57 TREVOR KIDDTOR
58 MILAN HNILICKA, ATL
59 PETER SKUDRA, VAN
60 JAMIE MCLENNAN, CGY
61 MIKE RICHTER, NYR
62 RICK DIPIETRO. NYI
63 MIIKKA KIPRUSOFF. SJ
64 BYRON DAFOE. ATI
65 STEVE PASSMORE, CHI
67 REINHARD DIVIS, STL
68 MATHIEU GARON, MTL
69 ALEXANDER AULD, VAN
70, TYLER MOSS, VAN
71 MICHAEL LEIGHTON, CHI
72 ANDREW RAYCROFrBOS
73 RAY EMERY, OTT
74 TIM THOMAS, BOS
75 CURTIS SANFORD, STL
76 PATRICK DESROCHERS, CAR
77 COREY HIRSCH, DAL
78 MIKAEL TELLOVIST TOR
79 JEAN -FRANCOIS LABBE, CLB
80 JOHAN HOLMOVIST NYR
81 TOM BARRASSO, STL
82 KEVIN HODSON,TB
83JEAN-MARC PELLETIER,PHO
84 JAN LASAK, NSH
85 CRAIG ANDERSSON, CHI
86 WADE FLAHERTY, NSH
87 CRAIG BILLINGTON,WSH
88 EVGENY KONSTANTIN Nash
89 DIETER KOCHAN, MIN
90 FREDERIC CASSIVI, ATL
91 BRIAN FINLEY, NSH

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: silverpig
I wouldn't put Turco up there. Sure he has great numbers, but look who he has in front of him. I could pull off a 1.2 GAA with 10 shots per game against.

Last night he had 15 shots, 4 goals... That's a .733 save ratio.

Every great goalie has a bad night. Remember when Roy let in 7 goals in a game seven against Detroit a couple of years ago?

I still think that Turco has what it takes to be an elite goalie.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: RedRooster
The addition of Hedberg was the best decision Vancouver made this off-season. It really doesn't matter what Cloutier does, if he does well he'll play, if he chokes Hedberg will play. I think that trade was more than just a challenge to Cloutier to play better. It's insurance. And if he continues to be so inconsistent, Hedberg will be #1 with Cloutier moving elsewhere in the league, like Boston or New York.

After Saturday's performance against my pitiful Oilers, Hedberg looked pretty good. He should play a lot.

I totally agree. I chose Hedberg in my draft as my only backup goalie for that very reason.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: RedRooster
And my response to your question is that I'd rate Cloutier below Lalime and Joseph. Cloutier is solid when he's good, but he'll never go on a roll of stealing games like Lalime and Joseph have in the past.

There's four levels of goalies in the NHL right now:
Top tier has Hasek/Brodeur
Second has Lalime/Giggy/Theodore/etc.
Third has Cloutier/Salo/etc.
Bottom has Potvin/Dunham/etc.

I wouldn't argue with this....

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: ThaPerculator
I honestly don't think Gigeure has what it takes to be a 2nd tier/future 1st goalie. From the looks of him this season, last years playoffs were a fluke. Cloutier is pretty good, I think I'd rank him with the likes of last year's Joseph. Don't get me wrong, Joseph has had his share of real good games, but all last season he looked a little shaky. I felt more confident with Legace in net. (and yes, I watched just about every wings game last year).

This is a tough one. Arguably as long as a team makes the playoffs, then the regular season doesn't count. The only other goalie that did as much with such a weak team as Giguere did with Anaheim was Roy with Montreal in 1995. Montreal had no business being in the Cup final let alone winning everything. The only reason they did was because of Roy.

Giguere came alive in the playoffs and carried his team. This is what defines an elite goalie (IMO).

Brodeur hasn't even done that. He has always had a strong defense in front of him. Put him in a team like Anaheim or Florida and it would be very interesting to see how he works.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Aquaman
Here is Goalies World Magazines 2002-03 regular season rankings

...

Cheers,
Aquaman

Was this before or after the season?
Before or after the playoffs?

Belfour #1 This makes no sense.

 

[Aquaman]

Right now I think that with the new equipment size rules the 2 biggest culprits of having too big equipment are JS Giguere & Garth Snow are having some trouble this season. They have to get used to having the smaller equipment.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

after the regualr season with no playoffs.

I trust these guys....... they have been rating goalies since 1995.

They have a formula where they take all of the goalies stats and come up with the "Goalies World Points"

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Aquaman]

I wonder where jospeh will be headding? I heard a rumor that Washington was going to trade for Joseph and then trade ollie to Colorado.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Aquaman
I wonder where jospeh will be headding? I heard a rumor that Washington was going to trade for Joseph and then trade ollie to Colorado.

Cheers,
Aquaman

That would kill me because I have Aebischer

I heard NY Rangers may go after him as well. He still has a problem foot though...

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aquaman
I wonder where jospeh will be headding? I heard a rumor that Washington was going to trade for Joseph and then trade ollie to Colorado.

That would kill me because I have Aebischer

I heard NY Rangers may go after him as well. He still has a problem foot though...

I've heard that rumor too... I think the Wings would have to seriously consider if they want to help out Colorado like that. I think they are more apt to send him elsewhere for less in return. But, it's not like anyone is knocking down the door to get CuJo. He's had ankle surgery, and is expected to recover fully in a short amount of time. He has returned to practice.


But to answer the initial question... Yes, I think Cloutier is good enough. He can get on a hot streak as well as anyone.

In '98 Osgood wasn't all that consistant. He gave up a couple of very long/very soft goals. But the Wings still won the Cup.

 

[Aquaman]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Aquaman
I wonder where jospeh will be headding? I heard a rumor that Washington was going to trade for Joseph and then trade ollie to Colorado.

That would kill me because I have Aebischer

I heard NY Rangers may go after him as well. He still has a problem foot though...

I've heard that rumor too... I think the Wings would have to seriously consider if they want to help out Colorado like that. I think they are more apt to send him elsewhere for less in return. But, it's not like anyone is knocking down the door to get CuJo. He's had ankle surgery, and is expected to recover fully in a short amount of time. He has returned to practice.


But to answer the initial question... Yes, I think Cloutier is good enough. He can get on a hot streak as well as anyone.

In '98 Osgood wasn't all that consistant. He gave up a couple of very long/very soft goals. But the Wings still won the Cup.

That is the thing with most Canucks fans They are really hard on the goalie I am a goalie and I know (to some extent) how all the past Canucks goalies feel. If you look at Cloutiers record since we have had him ......... he has improved every season. Even in the playoffs he has gotten better. Don't forget he has only something like 15+/- playoff games to his credit he can only get better.

Cheers,
Aquaman