Is California Liberal?

IOException

Junior Member
Mar 22, 2014
18
0
0
As a Californian, I want to correct a fallacy that I see a lot on the Internet: Californians are not liberal. Go inland, upstate, or central, and you will see that voters swing "conservative". Basically any place that isn't coastal isn't a Democratic stronghold. So why does the state swing left?

1) We recently passed a proposition that allows an independent citizen commission to redraw districts. No more gerrymandering means the Republicans lost seats in populated areas. Not to say that only Republicans gerrymander, far from it. But when a district has 45% "conservative" voters and 55% "liberal" voters, the voice of the large minority gets stifled.

2) Like most states, we are a winner takes all for the electoral college. Don't even get me started on how asinine the idea of the EC is in modern times.

3) A large percentage of voters are registered as Independents. A vast majority of these Independents have been voting Democratic. Why? Independents are typically socially liberal. Republicans are campaigning on their social conservatism, so they lose these votes. Independents have no problem voting for a Republican candidate that respects individual rights. Ronald Regan's stance on homosexuality is a perfect example of this.

4) The cold war is over. People are smart enough to realize that America is sliding in the world standing and want to see progress and innovation, not regression and war.

5) The "war on terror" is getting old. People vote out of fear only for so long.

6) The state's second largest "religious" group, and the fastest growing, are atheists. An atheist obviously isn't going to vote for a party that runs on "Christian values", even if many atheists hold libertarian values.

7) A massive immigrant population. Immigrants simply aren't going to vote for candidates that are outwardly xenophobic.

8) Conservative talk show hosts and radio personalities. The lies, soundbites, and clips are very off-putting to centrists. The left does have people like Rachael Maddow and John Stewart. The difference? They are just annoying; they line up one-sided arguments and fail to take a truly exploratory and analytically approach to the other side. Yeah, they make themselves look smart by having a team of great writers. But for all their lies of omission and one-sided talks, they don't outright lie and they don't come off as complete dunderheads. I'm well aware that most Fox News personalities are Ivy educated; they just don't present themselves in that manner and routinely denounce education.

9) A greater percentage of our registered voters are educated. Look, it's no secret, educated people are socially liberal. One could argue that this is a massive conspiracy constituted by institutions of higher learning. Others might argue that college gives people the opportunity to broaden their horizons and to interact with people with different ideas and from different circumstances.

My point? The GOP isn't losing votes because everyone else is getting "liberal". They are losing votes because they refuse to accept changing demographics and continue to pander to the most vocal party supporters, instead of the central majority.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
That's been a common problem over the years in general.

The electoral system, more or less in a nutshell.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,888
11,283
136
I lived in central CA for 25 years. It was mostly farm country...and pretty conservative...

State assembly:
ElectionReform-fig1_web.png


Yet, somewhat surprisingly, didn't vote heavily for Mitt the Mormon:

California-Election-2012-Results-President.png
 
Last edited:

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
About like Florida actually.

You go to the developed areas with a bit of culture lots of blue.

But tons of Red in the rural areas, more or less ignorant areas.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,888
11,283
136
California is Conservative because it supports the State. There is no push for constitutional confederalism there so it sure as hell isnt liberal.

Dude...go take your anti-psychotic meds...you're way overdue.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Lol. The state districts were messed with by the democrats. Any one thinking otherwise is a fool
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Lol. The state districts were messed with by the democrats. Any one thinking otherwise is a fool

You're lying. Republicans were for it before they were against it. Now it is drawn by a commission that is composed of five Democrats , five Republicans and four independents.
Of course that's not fair to Republicans, who are used to stacking the deck.
Just like term limits, redistricting is a way for the minority party to try and increase their influence. Republicans were all for redistricting reform till they realized it wouldn't really help their shrinking party.

"Since the process was open, partisans were among those who attempted to influence the Commission during the public hearing process to ensure the resulting districts were drawn in their favor. In a much-cited article, the investigative journalism publisher ProPublica found evidence that the California Democratic Party leaders coordinated with community groups to testify in front of the Commission, and concluded that these efforts had manipulated the process.[28][29][30][31][32][33][34] While the California Republican Party was quick to call for an investigation, other political observers were less surprised and noted that similar Republican efforts during the hearing process were simply less effective"
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
I'm well aware that most Fox News personalities are Ivy educated; they just don't present themselves in that manner and routinely denounce education.
I'm not sure what that pertains to these days myself, other than they spent time at Harvard snorting Koch, (sorry Cocaine, my bad) and hanging out with there other friends from their daddies that had large trust funds, and partying their asses off to get a walk in job in government.

Kerry was there too of course.

At least he had a war record, the whole swift boat thing at the time was more than pathetic.

When Dubya landed on that aircraft carrier and said Mission Accomplished, I almost puked myself that day.

Kept going downhill from there.

Getting rid of all the Ivy league snots would be a big priority in this country IMHO, and several others.
 
Last edited:

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
96
86
A fiscally conservative and socially liberal candidate would win in CA by a ton. unfortunately this type of candidate seems to not exist.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,888
11,283
136
Lol. The state districts were messed with by the democrats. Any one thinking otherwise is a fool

Are you for gerrymandering in Texas? It happens everywhere...and as mentioned by marincounty, California is actually trying to "fix the problem."
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
About like Florida actually.

You go to the developed areas with a bit of culture lots of blue.

But tons of Red in the rural areas, more or less ignorant areas.

Deeply urban, aka. inner city, areas are filled to the brim with ignorant, uneducated sorts, with HS dropout rates 2-3x higher than those in rural areas. Get your facts straight. If you think there's grand culture in the `hood, which makes up the highest population concentrations, you're an idiot.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
stop being ignorant, I have Aunts and Uncles that are college professors in Ocala.

I know exactly how redneck some areas of FL are, I've been living here 25 years now and I grew up in an area in the midwest that was probably more redneck than here.

Thankfully , I joined the USMC long ago traveled around the world a bit and lost a lot of ignorance helping people.

And a few Upper Societie types that live in Tampa.

South St Pete bad without saying, but that would be like saying there is no crime or problems in Detroit or Miami too.
 
Last edited:

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
was supposed to be CA I guess but I lived here a bit too myself, boot camp in San Diego then a few schools after that hanging out near Ocean Slime as it was called at the time and partying up in El Camino Rial if I remember the area right.

I probably don't.

*shrug*
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Lol. The state districts were messed with by the democrats. Any one thinking otherwise is a fool

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_11_(2008)
Look at the supporter list and then look at the opposition list. Damn those Democrats for jamming that proposition through CA ballot...oh wait...
Others supporting the initiative include


  • AARP
  • The Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce
  • The League of Women Voters
  • Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger[2][3] (Republican)
  • Former Governor Gray Davis (Democrat)
  • ACLU - Southern California
  • Bay Area Council
  • Bay Area Leadership Council
  • California Black Chamber of Commerce
  • California Democratic Council
  • California Police Chiefs Association
  • California Republican Assembly
  • California Small Business Association
  • California Taxpayers' Association
  • Central California Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
  • National Federation of Independent Business, California
  • North San Diego County NAACP
  • Neighborhoods for Clean Elections
  • Santa Clara Cities Association
  • Silicon Valley Leadership Group
  • Small Business Action Committee
Opponents to Prop. 11 include


  • U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer,
  • House Speaker Nancy Pelosi,
  • the California Democratic Party,
  • the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund,
  • the NAACP Defense Fund
  • the Asian-American Pacific Legal Center
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76

You're being an ignorant ass yourself, so you deserve to "have your back up", frankly. No matter how backwards you believe "rednecks" to be, the facts speak for themselves, they're not nearly as bad as what you find in metro areas across the USA. Sorry, your anecdotes and links to festivals don't equal hard data.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_11_(2008)
Look at the supporter list and then look at the opposition list. Damn those Democrats for jamming that proposition through CA ballot...oh wait...
Others supporting the initiative include


  • AARP
  • The Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce
  • The League of Women Voters
  • Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger[2][3] (Republican)
  • Former Governor Gray Davis (Democrat)
  • ACLU - Southern California
  • Bay Area Council
  • Bay Area Leadership Council
  • California Black Chamber of Commerce
  • California Democratic Council
  • California Police Chiefs Association
  • California Republican Assembly
  • California Small Business Association
  • California Taxpayers' Association
  • Central California Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
  • National Federation of Independent Business, California
  • North San Diego County NAACP
  • Neighborhoods for Clean Elections
  • Santa Clara Cities Association
  • Silicon Valley Leadership Group
  • Small Business Action Committee
Opponents to Prop. 11 include


  • U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer,
  • House Speaker Nancy Pelosi,
  • the California Democratic Party,
  • the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund,
  • the NAACP Defense Fund
  • the Asian-American Pacific Legal Center
[/QUOTE ] too funny.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
You're being an ignorant ass yourself, so you deserve to "have your back up", frankly. No matter how backwards you believe "rednecks" to be, the facts speak for themselves, they're not nearly as bad as what you find in metro areas across the USA. Sorry, your anecdotes and links to festivals don't equal hard data.
I grew up a redneck piss off.

I'm probably more a redneck than you'll ever be but I outgrew it.
 
Last edited:

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
You're lying. Republicans were for it before they were against it. Now it is drawn by a commission that is composed of five Democrats , five Republicans and four independents.
Of course that's not fair to Republicans, who are used to stacking the deck.
Just like term limits, redistricting is a way for the minority party to try and increase their influence. Republicans were all for redistricting reform till they realized it wouldn't really help their shrinking party.

"Since the process was open, partisans were among those who attempted to influence the Commission during the public hearing process to ensure the resulting districts were drawn in their favor. In a much-cited article, the investigative journalism publisher ProPublica found evidence that the California Democratic Party leaders coordinated with community groups to testify in front of the Commission, and concluded that these efforts had manipulated the process.[28][29][30][31][32][33][34] While the California Republican Party was quick to call for an investigation, other political observers were less surprised and noted that similar Republican efforts during the hearing process were simply less effective"

how am I lying?

you quote the exact article I refer to. Your quote actually admits the democrats messed with the districts.

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-democrats-fooled-californias-redistricting-commission

for the full article
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,537
3
76
I grew up a redneck piss off.

I'm probably more a redneck than you'll ever be but I outgrew it.

So it's a "who's a bigger redneck" battle? Though I grew up in the rural South, I'm not a redneck, so I suppose you win in that respect, but I know more than my fair share.

Since you have nothing, except for the regular Progressive plea to emotion, there's really nothing of substance you can add to the discussion, is there? That figures.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,036
48,021
136
Yes, California is liberal. It is true if you look at geography it is pretty red, but if you look at where all the people live it is very blue. People vote, not dirt, so it's liberal. A form of this happens after most elections where a map comes out showing America is almost all red. The same thing is the case there.