Is burning thousands of files to a DVD a stupid thing to do?

[TheDarkKnight]

Oh my God. I burned a dual-layer DVD(8.5GB) awhile back, filling it to almost 100% full capacity. I needed some files off the DVD so I put it in my DVD drive and it starts making all kinds of noises and windows is taking forever to show whats on the disc. I am thinking the disc must been full of errors so I do a check for errors with CDCheck and it gets halfway through the disc without a single read error at anytime, nada, zero errors. So at this point I figured I would just copy the entire DVD contents back to my hard disk where it might be easier and faster to search for files. I copy'n'paste a single folder from the DVD to my hard disk. But there's one catch. That single folder has 15,660 items. As I write this, the copy operation is still in process, the DVD is still screeching at a steady rate of about 1 screech per second. My guess is that each screech is directly related to positioning the laser for each file it has to read. Some screeches are just noisy and then every minute or so there is a different kind of screech which makes you think the drive is gonna explode.

Is it inherently stupid to burn 15K+ files to a DVD or is my DVD burner/player just a piece of junk...or is it the media I used that is at fault...The DVD player is an iHAS-124 which is Lite-On I believe and the media is a Memorex DVD+R-DL disc.

I could understand the reason for the screeching and slowness if there were errors detected on the disc but every file so far appears to have copied over to hard disk just fine.
It's about half through now and it's been an about an hour so I expect the folder copy'n'paste operation won't be done for at least another hour.

Thanks for all input on this. I never wanna have to go through this kind of bad experience again.

Edit: Windows 7 file copy window show 6,530 items remaining and now it sounds like the DVD-ROM is stuck in a screen loop that repeats and no more files are copying. Maybe it's bad media.

 

[darckhart]

it's like copying a zillion small files from one hard drive to another. or from a usb stick to your hard drive. zillion small files take a long time to transfer no matter the medium. it's always much faster to transfer large files. and the reads off a disc are inherently slower than off other storage devices...

the screeching is obviously just a consquence of your dvd drive... not sure why that's occuring..

 

[zebrax2]

It probably is. You could store your files in an archive then burn that archive next time.

 

[dma0991]

Been there, done that and it is not worth the trouble. Burning many discs and searching through each discs for a particular file is a PITA. If you couldn't do a transfer of every file at once, do it in smaller batches at a time. Maybe a sub folder with 1k files at a time should guarantee that all files will be safely transferred.

 

[Turbonium]

I generally don't use optical media for backup purposes. Ever. So if that's what you're using it for, then I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

it's like copying a zillion small files from one hard drive to another. or from a usb stick to your hard drive. zillion small files take a long time to transfer no matter the medium. it's always much faster to transfer large files. and the reads off a disc are inherently slower than off other storage devices...

the screeching is obviously just a consquence of your dvd drive... not sure why that's occuring..

I don't think this is a matter of being time consuming. The constant steady screech of the DVD drive tells me its trying to do something over and over, or, the drive is having to move the laser to re-position itself for each and every small file on the DVD.
Whatever is going on right now I can tell you from experiencing it first hand, that its a nightmare.

 

[Turbonium]

I don't think this is a matter of being time consuming. The constant steady screech of the DVD drive tells me its trying to do something over and over, or, the drive is having to move the laser to re-position itself for each and every small file on the DVD.
Whatever is going on right now I can tell you from experiencing it first hand, that its a nightmare.

I don't think that's how it works. Small files are encoded to be separate; the stream is continuous. It's not like the laser is literally repositioning itself for each file. It doesn't have that kind of resolution.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

I generally don't use optical media for backup purposes. Ever. So if that's what you're using it for, then I wouldn't recommend it.

I have burned some CDs that have lasted several years. I think it depends on the media you use. The same could probably be said for hard disk drives or whatever storage medium you are relying on. They aren't all created equal.

Edit: I have started copying off specific sub-folders and I can't even hear the DVD drive. I am starting to think it's not the number of files but poor media.

 

[Turbonium]

I have burned some CDs that have lasted several years. I think it depends on the media you use. The same could probably be said for hard disk drives or whatever storage medium you are relying on. They aren't all created equal.

Optical media generally has a shelf life. Magnetic disks can last indefinitely (even if the drive eventually fails, mechanically speaking, your data is still there).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I don't think this is a matter of being time consuming. The constant steady screech of the DVD drive tells me its trying to do something over and over, or, the drive is having to move the laser to re-position itself for each and every small file on the DVD.
Whatever is going on right now I can tell you from experiencing it first hand, that its a nightmare.

If the disk is formatted with UDF and you copy from windows, the drive gets treated like a hard drive. It means that the drive is continually writing -both- the file and information to the file system. That means a -lot- of reposition of the reading/writing laser. There is only one other sure-fire way to ruin your drive and that is putting the drive in PIO-mode for a few months...()

What you need for burning disks reliably is mastering software. You could take a look at cdburnerxp. Its not as fancy as f.x. Nero, but it gets the job done...

 

[TheDarkKnight]

If the disk is formatted with UDF and you copy from windows, the drive gets treated like a hard drive. It means that the drive is continually writing -both- the file and information to the file system. That means a -lot- of reposition of the reading/writing laser. There is only one other sure-fire way to ruin your drive and that is putting the drive in PIO-mode for a few months...()

What you need for burning disks reliably is mastering software. You could take a look at cdburnerxp. Its not as fancy as f.x. Nero, but it gets the job done...

I am not copying files from the hard disk to the DVD disc with Windows 7. I know better than that. I burned the DVD disc in a single session to full capacity with ImgBurn a few months ago. I was trying to get the files back off the DVD to the hard disk and they were copying very slow while the DVD made lots of noise.

I am still working on this as I write this message. I have discovered that certain folders appear to be corrupt and others copy straight off without any noise grinding at all. I have come to the conclusion the DVD media is bad or simply incompatible with my DVD burner. Im salvaging the sub-folders off of the DVD disc that I can and will pitch the disc afterwards.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I am not copying files from the hard disk to the DVD disc with Windows 7. I know better than that. I burned the DVD disc in a single session to full capacity with ImgBurn a few months ago. I was trying to get the files back off the DVD to the hard disk and they were copying very slow while the DVD made lots of noise.

I am still working on this as I write this message. I have discovered that certain folders appear to be corrupt and others copy straight off without any noise grinding at all. I have come to the conclusion the DVD media is bad or simply incompatible with my DVD burner. Im salvaging the sub-folders off of the DVD disc that I can and will pitch the disc afterwards.

Sorry, I did not mean to lecture you...

What you describe sounds reasonable. It sounds like a bad disk.

Have you tried DVDdisaster. It might be able to salvage something...

 

[VirtualLarry]

Try ripping an ISO of the DL-DVD disc with ImgBurn, and then use WinRAR to open the ISO, and then copy the files out that way. Should be much faster.

 

[Vinwiesel]

I generally don't use optical media for backup purposes. Ever. So if that's what you're using it for, then I wouldn't recommend it.

I don't trust optical media, and have had the same problem with seeking and small files. I have thrown a couple hard drives from old computers into external enclosures, and use them for backups. An old 80 or 120gb IDE drive isn't much good for anything else, but most people can put a lifetime of "my documents" on it.

 

[Tsavo]

I have burned some CDs that have lasted several years. I think it depends on the media you use. The same could probably be said for hard disk drives or whatever storage medium you are relying on. They aren't all created equal.

Edit: I have started copying off specific sub-folders and I can't even hear the DVD drive. I am starting to think it's not the number of files but poor media.

Media quality is pretty much the single most important factor in determining the longevity of the data that gets put on it.

Taiyo Yuden archival quality burned at slow speed and then checked for errors is for data you want to keep for a few years.

For any other data, cheap DVD-r's or toilet paper.

 

[capeconsultant]

Optical is dead. Too slow and too many issues such as yours.

 

[Cerb]

The OP's biggest problem was media. Nobody makes good DL-DVD media.

To handle the small files problem, what I would do is archive them by some higher folder, then make parity files for the archive, and burn those with the files, on single-layer disc. If that's too much to do for the data, it's probably time to move to a different storage technology.

 

[Turbonium]

Someone please tell me if my understanding of the way things are burned was correct or not (post #7).

 

[blastingcap]

Optical media generally has a shelf life. Magnetic disks can last indefinitely (even if the drive eventually fails, mechanically speaking, your data is still there).

HDDs can suffer from bit rot. So it won't last forever either. I think something like a real backup, offline or online (Crashplan, Backblaze, etc.) may be a better bet for archival stuff, but then my friend insists those "unlimited" companies will go bankrupt or change their TOS to jack up rates soon, plus most people's internet connections will make for awfully long backup and restore times. Maybe an external HDD with periodic refreshes/scrubs?

In any case, I'd prefer HDDs over optical media, yes. Stamped CDs and DVDs can last decades, but the ones you "burn" on consumer-grade "burners" probably won't. CD-Rs can probably last a good while, but DVD-Rs... wow. Due to the kinds of dyes and glues used, and reflecting material, there is a HUGE range of quality ranging from "yes this DVD-R will read 10 minutes from now and will be too corrupt to read 10 hours from now" to "real gold reflectors, will last a century." I use Taiyo Yuden DVD-Rs exclusively after a run-in with the former kind of DVD-R that got corrupted within weeks of burning. I expect my TY DVD-Rs to be readable for no more than a decade or so, even though TY is the best of the consumer-grade DVD-R makers when ti comes to quality.

 

[tynopik]

Try ripping an ISO of the DL-DVD disc with ImgBurn, and then use WinRAR to open the ISO, and then copy the files out that way. Should be much faster.

THIS

 

[Turbonium]

HDDs can suffer from bit rot. So it won't last forever either.]

Well now I'm going to be paranoid.

 

[Phynaz]

the drive is having to move the laser to re-position itself for each and every small file on the DVD.

That's exactly what it is doing.

 

[Phynaz]

Someone please tell me if my understanding of the way things are burned was correct or not (post #7).

Kinda. Yes the data itself is burned in a continuous stream, but you are forgetting about needing a file system.

Every file needs to be found before it's copied, and for that it needs to be looked up in the TOC (table of contents).

 

[Revolution 11]

Turbonium, to add to your paranoia, not all DVDs are made equally. Supposedly, Taiyo-Yuden DVD+ discs are the way to go.

http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media
http://club.myce.com/f33/taiyo-yuden-faq-178622/

EDIT: Oops, Tsavo already got this.

 

[tweakboy]

There is no problem burning bunch of pics or whatever to DVD. Its a good form of backup and one of the many forms.

The hard drive is mechanical so it can die anytime. DVD is solid so info will live for 30 years as long as there is no scratches and its clean dvd.

gl