Is availability a benchmark?

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
I been reading a lot about the 520 which will be annouced in 2 days, but the reality is there is only one benchmark that matters, Can It Actually Be Bought is the new hit game benchmark. I love Ati and have favored them over Nvidia the last 4 years or so because quite frankly they had better cards, But Ati's lack of availability is atrocious to put it mildly. Hardocp touched on that today on their front page. The Grouper Sapphire was reviewed on July 29th here, its now October, still can't buy it or any board for that matter. I always believe it calling like it is, if they annouce these cards, no matter how good they are, if I can't buy it by next week, who really gives a gosh darn how good it performs. I don't know how others feel, but after 10 plus years as a "hardware junky" I am so not into paper launches any more. Just wanna know how folks feel on that, shouldn't they only annouce a product when you can actually buy it? And trust me I am an Ati fan, but it kinda looks flaky to have a bunch of folks go to one place to review a card. They should dozens of samples sent to reviewers.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
ATI has promise instant avalibility on all their cards. No paper launches they say. (They did not promise this with Xfire)
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,302
1
0
How bout you wait and see how the R520 availability is before you start trashing ATI on it?

BTW, what is a "Grouper Sapphire"?
 

Josh7289

Senior member
Apr 19, 2005
799
0
76
Originally posted by: Hacp
ATI has promise instant avalibility on all their cards. No paper launches they say. (They did not promise this with Xfire)

Don't count on it. You can QFT me.

Originally posted by: M0RPH
How bout you wait and see how the R520 availability is before you start trashing ATI on it?

BTW, what is a "Grouper Sapphire"?

A sweet enthusiast ATI chipset motherboard. Look it up here on Anandtech.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Hacp
ATI has promise instant avalibility on all their cards. No paper launches they say. (They did not promise this with Xfire)


They most certainly did promise availbility on launch. Many of the online reviews of Crossfire lastweek mentioned that they should be available starting that day.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=171

That's just one example, their PR people were spinning this yarn to a lot of respected online publications.

Kyle at HardOCP is pretty pissed to name one, and that is my second most trusted site aside from Anandtech.
 

trinibwoy

Senior member
Apr 29, 2005
317
3
81
Originally posted by: Hacp
ATI has promise instant avalibility on all their cards. No paper launches they say. (They did not promise this with Xfire)

Actually they did promise instant availability with Crossfire.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26586
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=171
http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/8846

And Kyle's latest spiel - http://www.hardocp.com

ATI CrossFire MIA:
There has been a lot of hoopla about ATI and their CrossFire master cards lately, and I figured I would drop my 2 cents about all of this. Let me start by saying that we checked today with one of the Nets largest online computer parts retailers and they explained to me that they did not anticipate having stock on ATI CrossFire Master cards till November. Now keep in mind this is a mere 5 to 6 (depending how you count) MONTHS after their initial introduction of the product back in May...of this year.

Instead of waxing on for pages, I am going to cut to the chase and say what everyone is thinking and what many of us in the technology press are feeling.

1. ATI, HardOCP is not your personal PR bitch, so don't treat us like one again. You're on thin ice and you should be ashamed of your actions this year. We at HardOCP don't want to be a mouthpiece for vaporware in order to keep your stock price up. So from now on, if it is not the real deal, just keep it to yourself.

2. Continue with the "If NVIDIA does it, we can do it too!" methodology that has been working for you guys for a while now. But from now on, keep a tighter timeline.

3. Repeat after me. Paper launches, NO. Product launches, YES.

4. NVIDIA is setting the new standard by having their card builders selling the products on the day that they are launched. Learn it, know it, live it. And NVIDIA, don't change up on us now.

The bottom line is that the enthusiast hardware community wants products, not Canuck promises. ATI is quickly burning through a solid and loyal fan base that they built back in the days of the 9700/9800. Now is the time for ATI to step up with honest damage control, not another half filled basket of half baked promises.

And oh yeah, Quake 4 just went Gold. WooHoo! I think I just found a reason to go ahead and go SLI. (Always been a big Quake fan...) Too bad CrossFire is not a real option, although I am unsure whether or not I would consider it at this time, just due to having a fear of lacking support and service by ATI.

Sorry for the OT :)
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Hence ATi's credibility on "instant availabilty" of the X1800 series, not to to mention the netire X1 series.
 

orangat

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2004
1,579
0
0
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: trinibwoy
Originally posted by: Hacp
ATI has promise instant avalibility on all their cards. No paper launches they say. (They did not promise this with Xfire)

Actually they did promise instant availability with Crossfire.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26586
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=171
http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/8846

And Kyle's latest spiel - http://www.hardocp.com

ATI CrossFire MIA:
There has been a lot of hoopla about ATI and their CrossFire master cards lately, and I figured I would drop my 2 cents about all of this. Let me start by saying that we checked today with one of the Nets largest online computer parts retailers and they explained to me that they did not anticipate having stock on ATI CrossFire Master cards till November. Now keep in mind this is a mere 5 to 6 (depending how you count) MONTHS after their initial introduction of the product back in May...of this year.

Instead of waxing on for pages, I am going to cut to the chase and say what everyone is thinking and what many of us in the technology press are feeling.

1. ATI, HardOCP is not your personal PR bitch, so don't treat us like one again. You're on thin ice and you should be ashamed of your actions this year. We at HardOCP don't want to be a mouthpiece for vaporware in order to keep your stock price up. So from now on, if it is not the real deal, just keep it to yourself.

2. Continue with the "If NVIDIA does it, we can do it too!" methodology that has been working for you guys for a while now. But from now on, keep a tighter timeline.

3. Repeat after me. Paper launches, NO. Product launches, YES.

4. NVIDIA is setting the new standard by having their card builders selling the products on the day that they are launched. Learn it, know it, live it. And NVIDIA, don't change up on us now.

The bottom line is that the enthusiast hardware community wants products, not Canuck promises. ATI is quickly burning through a solid and loyal fan base that they built back in the days of the 9700/9800. Now is the time for ATI to step up with honest damage control, not another half filled basket of half baked promises.

And oh yeah, Quake 4 just went Gold. WooHoo! I think I just found a reason to go ahead and go SLI. (Always been a big Quake fan...) Too bad CrossFire is not a real option, although I am unsure whether or not I would consider it at this time, just due to having a fear of lacking support and service by ATI.

Sorry for the OT :)


I'm too lazy too look it up, but I remember reading an article where ATI specifically said that luckily they did not promise anything with crossfire, although they did promise with the R520 parts. I think toms did an interview or someone did.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.

How many years does Nvidia warrent????
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.

How many years does Nvidia warrent????


nvidia technically doesnt make card for purchase so they warrenty would depend on which of their partners you buy from

lifetime from eVga, BFG, and XFX
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.

How many years does Nvidia warrent????


nvidia technically doesnt make card for purchase so they warrenty would depend on which of their partners you buy from

lifetime from eVga, BFG, and XFX


Exactly my point. Nvidia warrents 0 years.
 
Apr 17, 2003
37,622
0
76
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: Corporate Thug
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.

How many years does Nvidia warrent????


nvidia technically doesnt make card for purchase so they warrenty would depend on which of their partners you buy from

lifetime from eVga, BFG, and XFX


Exactly my point. Nvidia warrents 0 years.


how can they warrent something they dont make? are you saying its a bad thing that nvidia doesnt produce their own cards?
 

orangat

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2004
1,579
0
0
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.


Never had parity? What about the 9500/9600/9700/9800 generation vs the FX 5xxx Nvidia cards? ATI have better performance and ran cooler.

ATI could scrap by but most of their products are based around the same video chip eg. their office, gamer, mobile, mmedia, embedded chip, workstation solutions are all variations around the same basic design. Which means if the R520 fails, their OEM business doesn't exactly have a good selling point as well because Nvidia can just as easily replace most of their products.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Originally posted by: M0RPH
How bout you wait and see how the R520 availability is before you start trashing ATI on it?

BTW, what is a "Grouper Sapphire"?

I am sorry if it sounds that way, but I am not flaming. I guess my issue is that Ati makes great stuff that they launch and is never readily available. Hence even if they produce a real good card, what difference does it make if I can't buy it. I see all the threads and speculation and it just got me to thinking about will I actually be able to buy the card in a reasonable amount of time. I hope this time its different. I am still running a 9500 Pro :)
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Why are people quoting ATI's video card warrenty when they can just buy it off of MSI or powercolor or sapphire or one of those companies theN???? People don't get that ATI is losing money right now, so they are obviously looking to cut costs.
 

lifeguard1999

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2000
2,323
1
0
From an earliet AT article:

R520 "XT" Crossfire.....Dual Slot.......Mid October
R520 "XT"...................Dual Slot.......Early October
R520 "XL"...................Single Slot.....Late September
RV530 Crossfire..........Single Slot.....Late October
RV515 "XL".................Single Slot.....Late September

Thus I expect the Radeon X1800 XT/XL/Pro and the X1300 to be available immediately due the "Early October" & "Late September" dates. Who knows when xFire will actually arrive.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
From an earliet AT article:

R520 "XT" Crossfire.....Dual Slot.......Mid October
R520 "XT"...................Dual Slot.......Early October
R520 "XL"...................Single Slot.....Late September
RV530 Crossfire..........Single Slot.....Late October
RV515 "XL".................Single Slot.....Late September

Thus I expect the Radeon X1800 XT/XL/Pro and the X1300 to be available immediately due the "Early October" & "Late September" dates. Who knows when xFire will actually arrive.

Looks like a few of those dates are wrong already.... I am guessing November, at the earliest.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.

Rollo, ATI has been in business far longer than nVidia has, and yes, they have ruled the roost in the past along with Matrox.

*EDIT* As for parity w/ nVidia, just think of the R300 days. 3DFX...well, when the Voodoo 5 came out I think ATI had more marketshare. ;)
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: orangat
If ATI's R520 doesn't achieve parity (at least) with the 78xx, ATI will be in very rough shape and might probably be bankrupt.

ATI had availability issues with x800 cards, generally slower than Nvidia, slow to market competitive cards in some segments. Very recently they cut warranty to 1 yr which is a bad sign.

This is not likely.

ATI never had parity with nVidia and 3DFX, and they survived. It's not good they cut their warranty, but they could probably release a plastic squirrel with "video card" stamped on it's tail and still survive. They make several products, and sell a lot of cards besides their top of the line.

Rollo, ATI has been in business far longer than nVidia has, and yes, they have ruled the roost in the past along with Matrox.

*EDIT* As for parity w/ nVidia, just think of the R300 days. 3DFX...well, when the Voodoo 5 came out I think ATI had more marketshare. ;)

ATI always had a large market share in integrated graphics and low end solutions, their first card to sell in significant quantities in the high end was the 9700 pro.