Is Athlon XP 3200+ abit too slow for Geforce 6800?

[SupremeServer]

I have Athlon XP 3200+ (well... its Athlon XP-M 2200+ at 2.5GHz), my video card is BFG Geforce 6800 (regular, non GT, non Ultra) OC, my question is... since my cpu is outdated Socket A and has no onchip memory controller, will it limit the full potential of my video card?

Please dont make guesses, I need an accurate answer.

 

[imported_humey]

No amd3200 32bit is only 2.2 gigs anyhow, your running PR of about xp3600-3800, so thats more than most.

Go and look on google and you can see a amd1700 was = to or greater than a 400fsb P4 2.5gig in most games, this is because of CPC (commands per clock) and amd do more per clock than intel, hense mhz myth is now known by most not just hardcore pc users.

 

[christopherzombie]

Here's my Socket A system before I upgraded:

Barton XP 2500+ @ 2.2ghz (3200+)
Asus A7N8X
Samsung 2x512MB PC3200 3-3-3-8
eVGA 6800 Ultra

939 Upgrade Rig:

A64 NewCastle 3500+ @ 2.2ghz
MSI K8N Neo2
Cosair TwinX1024-3200XLpro 2-2-2-5
eVGA 6800 Ultra

Benchmark Scores with stock speeds
Doom3:
AXP - 90fps
A64 - 106fps

HL2/CS:S VST:
AXP - 118fps
A64 - 141fps

3Dmark2001se:
AXP - 18000
A64 - 22000

3DMark03:
AXP - 11000
A64 - 12000

3Dmark05:
AXP - 4900
A64 - 5200

As you can see, my new CPU, MOBO and RAM helped my benchmark scores improve, but it wasn't a jaw-dropping increase. I don't think your CPU is limiting you videocard's full potential by much. Your overclocked XP-M should suit you well for a bit longer. The XP still holds up well in HL2, I think AnandTech even has a article on this somewhere.

 

[imported_Kensai]

It shouldn't be limiting it too much.

 

[ssvegeta1010]

Heres the article that christopherzombie was talking about.

And your CPU should be fine for that card.

 

[Gstanfor]

Granted, it isn't as perfect a setup as A64 would be, but it's nowhere near as expensive either and performance is pretty decent.

I have an XP2400+ currently, initial benchmarks I ran on my card are below. Am upgrading to an XP3200+ myself (max out my current setup, cheap upgrade) while I wait for dual-core A64 to mature somewhat.

Also see these comparison charts with suggested results for going from 2400+ to 3200+

AMD XP2400+, 1gig PC2100, ASUS A7N8x Deluxe Rev 2.0
GeForce6 6800GT core 410, memory 1.1gig 256mb GDDR3
Driver 76.41XG (selected GF6 at install time)

3D Mark 2003 (1024x768, optimal filtering, 0xAA, 0xAF)
driver = 4x AA, 4xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear mipmaps
7491 3D Marks
GT1 157.2
GT2 55.3
GT3 46.5
GT4 54.5

3D Mark 2003 (1024x768, optimal filtering, 0xAA, 0xAF)
driver = 0xAA, 0xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear mipmaps
11210 3D Marks
GT1 166.1
GT2 98.8
GT3 81.2
GT4 65.1

3D Mark 2003 (1600x1200, optimal filtering, 0xAA, 0xAF)
driver = 4xAA, 4xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear mipmaps
4608 3D Marks
GT1 119.7
GT2 29.6
GT3 25.9
GT4 36.7

3D Mark 2003 (1600x1200, optimal filtering, 0x AA, 0x AF)
driver = 0xAA, 0xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear mipmaps
7522 3D Marks
GT1 160.7
GT2 59.0
GT3 49.5
GT4 47.5

3D Mark 2005 (1024x768, 0xAA, 0xAF, optimal filtering)
driver = 0xAA, 0xAF, Quality, all opts ON, NO mipmaps
5267 3D Marks
GT1 21.4
GT2 15.8
GT3 27.6

3D Mark 2005 (1600x1200, 0xAA, 0xAF, optimal filtering)
driver = 0xAA, 0xAF, Quality, all opts ON, NO mipmaps
3818 3D Marks
GT1 16.7
GT2 11.4
GT3 18.8

3D mark 2001 (1024x768x32, Z24, TB)
driver = 4xAA, 4xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear forced
12860 3D Marks
Game1 Lo 163.1
Game1 Hi 55.7
Game2 Lo 255.4
Game2 Hi 133.8
Game3 Lo 150.3
Game3 Hi 64.9
Game 4 104.2

3D mark 2001 (1600x1200x32, Z24, TB)
driver = 4xAA, 4xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear forced
10058 3D Marks
Game1 Lo 152.7
Game1 Hi 53.8
Game2 Lo 162.2
Game2 Hi 112.9
Game3 Lo 138.0
Game3 Hi 64.1
Game 4 45.7

3D mark 2000 (1024x768x32, Z24, TB)
driver = 4xAA, 4xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear forced
11982 3D Marks
Game1 Low 207.6
Game1 Med 159.0
Game1 High 127.3
Game2 Low 284.6
Game2 Med 135.8
Game2 High 84.3

3D mark 2000 (1600x1200x32, Z24, TB)
driver = 4xAA, 4xAF, Quality, all opts ON, Trilinear forced
10386 3D Marks
Game1 Low 194.8
Game1 Med 144.7
Game1 High 91.3
Game2 Low 221.1
Game2 Med 130.0
Game2 High 83.6

Prior to the GeForce 6 6800 GT, I was running a GeForce FX 5900XT. The speedup was quite amazing (not that the FX was bad in its time - it was a huge step up from my GF4 Ti 4600).

 

[SupremeServer]

Thanks christopherzombie for posting your scores, judging from your numbers, I think my socket A system is limiting the full potential of my video card due to no onchip memory controller most likely...

I build my current system back in Q4 2004 because it was the end of Socket A and I wanted to build the best 32bit PC for AMD platform, i used the Nvidia nForce2 Ultra 400Gb chipset, Epox is the only manufacturer who made a motherboard using that chipset in Q4 2004, its the only Socket A motherboard with native built-in Gigabit network (2x faster than regular PCI Gigabit network card) and also the built-in Nvidia Hardware Firewall to off-load cpu resource and securing network.

I think might put my BFG Geforce 6800 OC on sale in the Anantech forum and just buy a lower end video card, Im a neat freak, I want everything to be perfectly perfect =)

 

[christopherzombie]

You beat me to the Tom's Hardware Guide link - nice job

But the link that ssvegeta1010 gave doesn't have the Athlon XP on it. - I'm still looking for it.

 

[2Xtreme21]

I'm running a 2500+ Barton at 3200+ speeds with a 6800nu and, quite honestly, I notice little performance difference between my friend (with a 3500+ 939) and myself with the same video card. I'm sure his benchmarks are a bit higher, but nothing to throw away your card for.

 

[christopherzombie]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
I'm running a 2500+ Barton at 3200+ speeds with a 6800nu and, quite honestly, I notice little performance difference between my friend (with a 3500+ 939) and myself with the same video card. I'm sure his benchmarks are a bit higher, but nothing to throw away your card for.

I agree. The 6800nu is just right for your CPU. Anything more would limit it's performance. I bought a 6800Ultra to replace my 5900XT cuz I knew I was upgrading to 939 A64. Otherwise, I would have just got the 6800nu.

 

[imported_humey]

SupremeServer, you have asked our opinions, now your saying same as you started of on.

Your 32 bit cpu is fine for time being you dont need 64bit yet and even windows 32bit games better than 64bit so far and thats from the irc place i belong to that work with MS)

Here on web today>>>http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-...dows-or-32-bit-versus-64bit-1349.shtml

Not a big loss to 64bit in games id still use it, but you dont have have it, and BTW Via had the fastest mobos for 64bit till NF4 matured slighlty after buggy start, the via chipseted mobos still had a memory controler on them.

With time 64bit will mature, i will jump over around jan-feb 2006 when 2nd generation chips are ready.(one of mods in the irc channel used to fix machines that make amd wafer, get info and axx to software we dont for long time, ie like longhorn is 50XX he has where 4074 is last 32bit build leaked).

 

[SupremeServer]

Im not saying i want to buy 64bit, I know you dont need 64bit yet, but the onchip memory controller and 800~1000MHz hypertransport bus on the Athlon 64 does make a different compare to the old Socket A, its 462 pin vs 939 pin, there must be a different, Im not saying I need to upgrade my 32bit to 64bit, what Im saying is that since my geforce 6800 cant bring out the full potential, mind as well just downgrade it, I didnt ask for opinions weather or not if I should upgrade to 64bit, I only asked for answers to weather my cpu was limiting my gpu or not, weather I want to upgrade or downgrade is my own decision and i never asked opinions on that, im a neat freak, i want everything to be perfectly matched, you get what im saying?

 

[classy]

I am actually about to build a Nforce system. Got a brand new DFI Lanparty B on the way, pair it with a gig of cheap VX, and a 1700+ which I have. Why? Because as an avid online gamer, there is very little difference in actual reality between something running 100fps and something running 85. I want to upgrade to a dual core which will be late this year and still don't know which 939 boards will be good to go. I am sure it will be smooth enough.

 

[SupremeServer]

To classy:

The dualcore Athlon review have been posted on anandtech, AMD is charging more money on their desktop dualcore compare to Intel, I think AMD have switched places with Intel pricewise, I dont think its a good time to upgrade to dualcore yet because the current AMD dualcore is limited by the DDR1 bandwidth, until nVidia have a new chipset out with DDR2 for AMD which shouldnt be very long since their Intel Edition chipset already have DDR2 support, new speed DDR2 800MHz is in the move, I would wait til Nvidia come out with DDR2 for AMD before I buy the dualcore machine, price for DDR2 is going to be equal to DDR1 in a few month.

 

[imported_humey]

Nvidia said they would use ddr2 when it was cheaper and now they prob wont ever as ddr2 is high latencys for now.

"Intel Knew DDR2 was Poor Design" http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1197

"AMD May Skip DDR2 Altogether" http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1196

 

[JBT]

For a 6800NU its fine.

 

[daveybrat]

im a neat freak, i want everything to be perfectly matched, you get what im saying?

I get what you're saying......that you think too much! Your logic makes no sense...but i guess if you'd really like to downgrade your video card and play your games with half the details, be our guest......

It's all up to you in the end anyhow

 

[SupremeServer]

To humey:

Elpida begins production of 90 nm DDR2 memory
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050421_133319.html providing room for future speed and capacity increases.

DDR2 prices to match DDR1 by mid year http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050307_130138.html
DDR2 is likely to scale from 400 to 800 MHz in the mainstream, with the latter frequency to be introduced in the fourth quarter of this year. While the DDR2-800 version will serve as bridge to the next generation DDR3-800, there will be a limited and higher-priced supply of DDR2-1066 memories early next year, the sources said.

A Look at AMD's Dual Core Architecture http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2397&p=2
The benefit is that AMD's dual core CPUs will work in almost all Socket-940 and Socket-939 motherboards (more on this later), but the downside is that the memory bus remains unchanged at 128-bits wide and supports a maximum memory speed of DDR400.
AMD's solution to the problem will come in the form of DDR2 and a new socket down the road, but for now there's no getting around the memory bandwidth limitations.

AMD wont stay in DDR1 forever, because AMD is not very good at making chipset for desktop, its up to Nvidia to make the DDR2 implementation for AMD, remember Nvidia has already made DDR2 motherboard for Intel, I think Nvidia is making a new chipset for DDR2 for AMD Platform, nforce -> nforce 2 -> nforce 3 -> nforce 4 -> whats next? nforce 5 of course =) Im pretty sure nforce 5 AMD Edition will have DDR2 support.

 

[imported_humey]

LOL, your obsessed with BW, AMD according to that wont use DD2 they will possibly in next 12 months go DDR3 or XDL, i read the same as you can.

Leave your pc alone and get over it, play games, talk of downgrading your card is dribble.

This oposses the flamming i got months ago for saying new games need a good cpu aswell as gpu unlike years ago with a gpu upgrade you were raring to go again for another year.

It fact now games are more and more cpu dependant, but your 2.5gig which ive told you equates to more in a power rating is fine.

Dont believe everythingt you read on this site as they told a load lies about N40 PvP with new drivers / nvidia dvd decoder working when they later claimed you needed new dll's. for WMP10.

We finally got 2 newer drivers after long period and i got new WMP10) that the win update site still no good PvP is broke for my 6800 U and thats why i am to get new card when next gen is out (yes i won my battle with nvidia/chaintech) but it needs to be agp for me so that could be a problem for now.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: SupremeServer
Thanks christopherzombie for posting your scores, judging from your numbers, I think my socket A system is limiting the full potential of my video card due to no onchip memory controller most likely...

I build my current system back in Q4 2004 because it was the end of Socket A and I wanted to build the best 32bit PC for AMD platform, i used the Nvidia nForce2 Ultra 400Gb chipset, Epox is the only manufacturer who made a motherboard using that chipset in Q4 2004, its the only Socket A motherboard with native built-in Gigabit network (2x faster than regular PCI Gigabit network card) and also the built-in Nvidia Hardware Firewall to off-load cpu resource and securing network.

I think might put my BFG Geforce 6800 OC on sale in the Anantech forum and just buy a lower end video card, Im a neat freak, I want everything to be perfectly perfect =)

Your chip is not limiting anything. At least not in real-world gaming. I've got an NF2 rig with a 6800GT.

Know what? Even with my underclocked to below 2600+ spec my rig/gfx card still chews up D3. Far Cry etc. So with my chip running at approx 1800mhz and not showing any bottlenecking, yours at 2.5ghz with a vanilla 6800 isn't bottlenecking in any real sense of the word.

Fern

 

[SupremeServer]

Like I said in the begining, theres a difference between guesses and reality, you are only saying what you feel, but if you look at christopherzombies post, you will know Athlon XP is limiting the gpu by a noticeable margin compare to Athlon 64.

Originally posted by: christopherzombie
Here's my Socket A system before I upgraded:

Barton XP 2500+ @ 2.2ghz (3200+)
Asus A7N8X
Samsung 2x512MB PC3200 3-3-3-8
eVGA 6800 Ultra

939 Upgrade Rig:

A64 NewCastle 3500+ @ 2.2ghz
MSI K8N Neo2
Cosair TwinX1024-3200XLpro 2-2-2-5
eVGA 6800 Ultra

Benchmark Scores with stock speeds
Doom3:
AXP - 90fps
A64 - 106fps

HL2/CS:S VST:
AXP - 118fps
A64 - 141fps

3Dmark2001se:
AXP - 18000
A64 - 22000

3DMark03:
AXP - 11000
A64 - 12000

3Dmark05:
AXP - 4900
A64 - 5200

As you can see, my new CPU, MOBO and RAM helped my benchmark scores improve, but it wasn't a jaw-dropping increase. I don't think your CPU is limiting you videocard's full potential by much. Your overclocked XP-M should suit you well for a bit longer. The XP still holds up well in HL2, I think AnandTech even has a article on this somewhere.

 

[Fern]

Like I said in the begining, theres a difference between guesses and reality

If you're responding to my post, I think you have it have it backwards. A benchmark is to help you "guess" or estimate how your will rig perform in real gaming. "Reality" is actually playing the games with the card on different set-ups/rigs.

I've actually run my 6800GT with such a cpu (1.8ghz vs. 2.4ghz and 166FSB vs. 220 FSB). The point of these gfx cards is gaming, not benching. Yeah, I can show you my different bench scores with the different clock settings. But the point I'm making is in actually gaming. Any boob knows the benches are gonna come out higher. But its the actual gaming experience that counts (at least for me).

Theorizing is great, but actual experience is better. Go run a 6800 (GT or vanilla) on the different rigs and play Doom 3, Far Cry, PK etc. Then come back and tell me you can see a difference.

BTW: ChrisZ is also suggesting to you that the XP will be fine if you bother to read his last paragraph.

Buy what you want. But to say an XP @ 2.5ghz won't properely run a 6800 in games is FUD. There are too many noobs who will see that and think they need to run out and drop a pile of $ (unneccessarily) to have a good gaming experience with a new card.

Fern

 

[SupremeServer]

If you read my previous posts, you should know, Im not trying to waste money upgrading to 64bit, but my neat freak traits doesnt allow me to have imperfection on my system, I wont be buying 64bit til Nvidia come out with DDR2 support for AMD, since Athlon XP is alittle too weak for Geforce 6800, I would downgrade my video card to some weaker models like Radeon 9800 Pro or something, I know this doesnt make any sense to you guys, but thats because you are not a neat freak, your mind doesnt require you to have everything to be 100% perfect.

 

[imported_humey]

It isnt guessed, buy hey i will tell you what you want to hear,ok

YOU PC IS NOT GOOD FOR GAMMING ITS SLOW SO BUILD A NEW ONE.

There does that make you feel better ?

You asked a Q and got all good feedback bar 1 post i think, and you sill not gonna listen.

 

[Fern]

Hey man, I think you're reading too much into the benches, or mis-reading them. I beleive no matter what card you put in an XP sytem, you're gonna get a better score with that same card in a 64bit system. Even 3Dmark05, which is mostly GPU dependant, will show a better score with a 64bit cpu. The test has a CPU portion towards the end.

If "perfection" is considered obtained when the same card get the same score whether in an XP or 64bit system, well I don't think that's gonna happen, cuz there a cpu portion of the test.

If you're trying to reach such a state of equilibrium, you'll have to test game demos (from games you normally play) on your rig, at the rez etc that you normally play at. Even so, it'll be fairly complicated, because a better gfx card is likely going to give you more FPS, unless it's capped as in Doom 3. IIRC, at low resolutions its your cpu capping you, at high rez's it the card. So, maybe equilibriam can obtained some way.

Bottom line, these "tools" (3Dmark) don't fit the job. I don't think that such a "tool" (proggie) even exists? Not to mention that different games/proggies are likely going to react different ways. WarCraft3 is cpu dependant, D3 is gfx card dependant. So, you can only be "perfect" when you're running the one game. You'll be out of equilibriam when using the other.

Interesting concept, but I think it is unobtainable. However, that determination is up to you. I.e., it would have to be "your" defination of perfection. That's cool, it's your PC.

Anyhoo, good luck with it.

Fern