Is anyone else annoyed with the realism of guns today?

[GodlessAstronomer]

Fun > realism

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: Kromis

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: Kromis
I love the Call of Duty franchise and while playing World at War, I noticed something odd about the M1 Garand...

I remember precisely that the M1 Garand in CoD1 and CoD2 could only reload after it depletes a cartridge or two of ammo. Each time you reloaded, you always see your guy either put in one or two cartridges of ammo, depending on how much you had left. However, in World at War, you could reload anytime. What the hell? Even Day of Defeat followed the reloading procedures for the Garand correctly.

Same with Brothers in Arms. And they had a freakin' military advisor to help them with the game!

I don't know, it just bothered me.

And also, a side topic: How does everyone feel about being able to reload a weapon (in any game) and "replenish" your clip of ammo. For those of you who don't understand, here's a comparison.

In SOCOM, whenever you reload, you can only swap out clips and whenever you reload again, you cycle through the clips that you have. In Counter-Strike, you can fire some shots, reload, and you'll have a full clip again. So basically, you have unlimited clips.

I can understand if its just the design but I'm just curious about everyone's thoughts on this.

Well, they're magazines, not clips. :roll:

LOL, I knew there was something wrong with me reusing the word "clip" over and over again. I kept thinking about pistols for some reason.

Damnit, it turns out the M1 did use a clip, anyways, read the difference here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_(ammunition)

I was just about to call you out on that. Why must you rob me of life's simple pleasures?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Fun > realism

Yeah really. I play video games for fun, if I wanted intense realism, I'd join the army.

 

[oddyager]

I don't care honestly either way and it definitely doesn't make it less fun for me if the game goes by clip than say a bullet barrel. It doesn't take me many bullets to put down an enemy/player so unless I'm down to 1 or 3 rounds, I don't need a full clip all the time.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Kromis

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Am I supposed to care? I like how CS:S does it. I hate it when any other game makes you swap through the clips. I reload a lot, and I mean a lot... I fire once, I reload... I fire once, I reload. Kill a guy, reload. Kill a guy, reload... Usually one to three bullets out of a 30 round magazine... I don't want to go through clips and then go rambo firing when I require it only to find out that the clip has 3 less bullets than required to kill this sucker. I have had this happen, I am expecting to go through the entire clip but kill him at the last few rounds only to find out those last few rounds ARE GONE

Most people do what you do: fire a shot or two, reload, repeat. That's a design decision to allow you to reload as much as you want. Obviously, it's more fun that way but it shys away from realism (realism does not equate fun, of course).

However, you will care if you actually do go around shooting people with guns in real life

I do it too. I can't even count how many times I've been killed or shot up because I felt the need to reload 3 rounds in a 30 round magazine while moving to the next area. At least my dance skills have improved.

It comes down to play style for me. If I can reload as much as I want and still have a hundred full magazines, then I will. If by reloading 2 rounds in every magazine, I start getting a hundred uneven 23/26/29/11 round magazines, I will try my best to shoot off the remaining ammo before reloading or just reload less frequently. Even though the latter is more realistic, I don't really think of it that way. IIRC, most CoD and BiA games don't allow you to carry more than 2 weapons, or they have a limit. However, they don't limit how much ammo for guns you don't currently have equipped. So, if we're talking about realism, how do you hump a couple hundred pounds of ammo around with no hinderance to movement? If anything, it's just attention to detail.

 

[Martimus]

The thing that annoys me sometimes is that one shot doesn't either kill or maim me/them, and that weapons are far too accurate in most games (especially pistols.) I prefer Operation Flashpoint type weapons where if you are shot, you are pretty much screwed (even if you don't die, you have to crawl around and wait to die.)

 

[Kromis]

Haha, now we're getting too realistic.

I just think that there should be a few more games that do that tactical reloading, that's all. A SWAT 5, perhaps? (I hope!)

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Martimus
The thing that annoys me sometimes is that one shot doesn't either kill or maim me/them, and that weapons are far too accurate in most games (especially pistols.) I prefer Operation Flashpoint type weapons where if you are shot, you are pretty much screwed (even if you don't die, you have to crawl around and wait to die.)

I have this problem with movies as well.
You see some guy get shot and he is instantly dead. Amazing bullets they have now, they not only injure they kill instantly.

Unless you hit the guy in exactly the right spot in the head he isn't going to die that second. I've seen plenty of war footage showing that when people are shot for real, they often lay on the ground moving in pain for at the least 30 seconds , often up to a minute or more.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: the unknown
Yes. I much rather would prefer that if you use 8 bullets in say a 30 bullet clip, when you reload that magazine it has 22 left. I loved that in the old Rainbow Six games, but I haven't played SOCOM. More game attempting realism should have this IMO.
On a side note...Not really sure how this works, but if you had down time could you manually place bullets into a magazine until it was full again? My initial thoughts are no...

Of course you can manually load the magazine. How do you think the ammunition got in there in the first place Of course you are right that it wasn't possible in Rainbow Six (The original, I never played any of the others), I could check SOCOM, but I haven't played that in a long time, and don't really remember how reloading works.

 

[the unknown]

Well I thought maybe with automatic rifles you just needed a whole new magazine Like the bullets were aligned a certain way. Or Strung together like in a LMG. I've never fired or reloaded a full auto before

edit: too many winky emoticons

 

[PingSpike]

I think I remember it was possible to reload the garand halfway through a magazine...it was just a major pain in the ass.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Martimus
The thing that annoys me sometimes is that one shot doesn't either kill or maim me/them, and that weapons are far too accurate in most games (especially pistols.) I prefer Operation Flashpoint type weapons where if you are shot, you are pretty much screwed (even if you don't die, you have to crawl around and wait to die.)

I have this problem with movies as well.
You see some guy get shot and he is instantly dead. Amazing bullets they have now, they not only injure they kill instantly.

Unless you hit the guy in exactly the right spot in the head he isn't going to die that second. I've seen plenty of war footage showing that when people are shot for real, they often lay on the ground moving in pain for at the least 30 seconds , often up to a minute or more.

If you use a weak/shitty gun to do the 'finishing' blow in Stalker, it is possible to just 'incapacitate' someone (i.e. they lay on the ground until you walk up and finish them). Human ones didn't move much, but boy did the zombies twitch so much that you couldn't wait to tap their forehead.

 

[imported_apocalypse]

Originally posted by: gorobei
not sure about the garand clip (i know you have to shoot through all 8 to put in a new clip, but i thought there was a top load feature for loose rounds.) but magazine loading comes in two flavors:

Tactical load vs speed load.
tac load- you pull out a full magazine from your belt/whathaveyou and eject the partially loaded mag from the weapon yet hold on to that mag while you insert the fresh mag. once the weapon is loaded you put the partially loaded mag back into your ammo supply so that you have those rounds available for later. takes more time, and you should have a procedure so that you always know when you are reaching for a full mag vs a potentially near empty mag.

speed load- pull a fresh mag while letting the old mag drop free to the ground. charge weapon normally. faster but you lose those rounds.

it is a little unrealistic for tac loads to automatically resort rounds from partially filled mags into full mags. if the game gave you the choice of two types of reloading with associated time penalties, it would be better. but then i dislike auto-reloading when you empty the mag. (there's nothing like pulling the trigger and hearing the click/slide lock to raise the pucker factor.) games that auto-reload take away a lot of the stress that comes with combat.

I like that tactical reload/speed load idea, definitely should be implemented in games, at least for higher difficulty levels. Do any games actually have this feature?

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I have this problem with movies as well.
You see some guy get shot and he is instantly dead. Amazing bullets they have now, they not only injure they kill instantly.

Unless you hit the guy in exactly the right spot in the head he isn't going to die that second. I've seen plenty of war footage showing that when people are shot for real, they often lay on the ground moving in pain for at the least 30 seconds , often up to a minute or more.

In war movies, they usually get it right. Other movies, it doesn't matter that much, they have enough other unrealistic "movie style" events that you should just suspend disbelief and enjoy the show
e.g Quantum of Solace tonight!!

 

[brencat]

If I had a choice, I'd prefer the realistic way -- which would penalize frequent reloaders. Now this was great on BF2 because it was a slower paced game relative to COD4 but it made you think and keep track of how much ammo you were forfeiting before reloading.

On COD4, the boards are so small and the action so UT-like that they'd have to give you a lot more ammo if they were going to do it the proper way.