Is an Open Notebook Chassis standard realistically possible?

[cbn]

I am referring to a chassis where a single form factor laptop mainboard and components could be interchanged freely. However, larger or small form factor standards could be implemented as well (similar to ATX,uATX, mini-itx for desktop).

If something like this were possible, what types of manufacturers would be interested? What kind of consumers would be interested?

What advantages could such an open chassis standard bring to all parties involved? Disadvantages?

Lastly, what would be the major obstacle a project like this would face?

P.S. I know an upgradeable Laptop was launched back in 2007 by ASUS. It was offered "barebones" and had an Impressive Cooler/Venting System)

Maybe something smaller/more efficient approaching "Mac Book Pro" quality would entice the niche enthusiast more? This provided the laptop was consistently tightly packed yet easy enough to work on.

Current efforts involve Shuttle Notebook Ecosystem. Platform options include processor and chipset support for Intel, AMD, and VIA Technologies.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

From the company's point of view, what would be their incentive?

 

[erikistired]

i don't believe it is possible. it would however, be neat.

a single chassis type, able to fit your choice of motherboard, and graphics chip, etc. all the other little extras. unfortunately, i just don't see it happening.

edit: i don't see it being cost effective enough to make it worth it to manufacturers. with desktop systems, you could build your own desktop that is better than most store bought systems. i'm not sure that could be replicated with laptops.

 

[corkyg]

Good for consumer, bad for business. Ergo, . . . never happen.

 

[cbn]

with desktop systems, you could build your own desktop that is better than most store bought systems. i'm not sure that could be replicated with laptops.

I agree. Laptop seems like a commodity market, but then again I am not familiar with all the details.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Even in desktop computers, the only reason standards survive is that they leave ridiculous amounts of empty space inside the computer to accommodate variations in components. As you get smaller, the wiggle room decreases, until you get the point where every design must be customized for the specific components intended for it.

I've been designing Mini-ITX cases lately and that's already maddening enough. The complexity of designing a laptop or a phone boggles my mind.

 

[cbn]

Even in desktop computers, the only reason standards survive is that they leave ridiculous amounts of empty space inside the computer to accommodate variations in components. As you get smaller, the wiggle room decreases, until you get the point where every design must be customized for the specific components intended for it.

That is what I was thinking, but then shuttle has designed "interchangeable" mainboards and Chassis nonetheless.

P.S. For mini-itx isn't max power for CPU somewhere around 110 watts?. Would a SPA mainboard durable enough to handle >65 watts be too much to ask from Shuttle? Maybe such a beefed up board standard (with Hi-C caps or whatever is used) could also serve double duty in the niche semi-rugged notebook market?

I'm not all that up on Notebooks but It would seem to me that "Overclocking" and/or "Semi-rugged" are low enough volume that a plan like Shuttle's might have a better chance of making it.

As far as Shuttle's current plan goes, they appear to me to be nice looking standard laptops. However, I am not sure how many people would want to buy such a commodity product from small LOEM vendors (shuttle doesn't want to sell direct, they want to sell units to be "rebranded" initially). Big Box stores with Large OEMs, in contrast, offer easy return policies among other things.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

That is what I was thinking, but then shuttle has designed "interchangeable" mainboards and Chassis nonetheless.

Yeah, maybe it is doable after all. I would love to be proven wrong. But I just imagine it being a pretty limited thing that only supports a certain range of hardware features. What happens when someone needs a bigger heatsink than the standard will fit?

P.S. For mini-itx isn't max power for CPU somewhere around 110 watts?.

The Mini-ITX spec seems to say that the max total power through the ATX power connector should be 60W, but it seems senseless to specify a maximum like that. The Mini-ITX spec looks pretty worthless and full of Via product-specific information. I think for the most part, the physical motherboard form factor is the only part that is really taken seriously.

 

[cbn]

What happens when someone needs a bigger heatsink than the standard will fit?

Good point. They would definitely need to address that if planning for high heat.

With this integrated into the SPA/uSPA standard I'm hoping "overclocked mobile CPU" is crossing the minds of at least some Shuttle folks.

Yeah, maybe it is doable after all. I would love to be proven wrong.

I'd imagine they will need a lot of help. Maybe some additional case/cooler IP if they really want to standardize something and get that "green credit" they talked about in the engadget article?

P.S. With regard to "Green Credit" or "Green credits" I don't really know what they mean by that? I'd imagine someone could easily make the argument that a well design proprietary notebook is actually more "green" than some interchangeable platform depending on what is happening.

 

[TruePaige]

As far as I know the closest solutions are those like the OCZ barebones laptops. They don't really give enough extra bang for the buck to be worth it in my opinion and they have slow driver support.

 

[cbn]

As far as I know the closest solutions are those like the OCZ barebones laptops. They don't really give enough extra bang for the buck to be worth it in my opinion and they have slow driver support.

I didn't know about the driver support. Maybe higher volume would have given them justification to improve in that area?

As far as "bang for the buck" goes, one thing I have noticed about mobile variants of desktop processors is that they cost a lot more money, but do less work due to battery and/or thermal limitations.

Maybe improving on docked performance is one way to help make "open notebook chassis standard" work commercially?

 

[TruePaige]

I didn't know about the driver support. Maybe higher volume would have given them justification to improve in that area?

As far as "bang for the buck" goes, one thing I have noticed about mobile variants of desktop processors is that they cost a lot more money, but do less work due to battery and/or thermal limitations.

Maybe improving on docked performance is one way to help make "open notebook chassis standard" work commercially?

I had just heard a lot of complaints about anything beyond the just released models having the little things throw problems in Win7, like the Webcam.

You are 100% on the mobile processors, they run a lot cooler but tend to be more expensive for the same performance, and max out on performance model wise before their desktop brethren.

When AMD puts out their unlocked mobile CPU's for the new variants of processors, it might be a pretty in demand chip for certain niches! 🙂

 

[cbn]

When AMD puts out their unlocked mobile CPU's for the new variants of processors, it might be a pretty in demand chip for certain niches! 🙂

Yep, I have been wondering how OEMs plan to implement that processor into their laptop designs.

 

[cbn]

From the company's point of view, what would be their incentive?

Maybe we should look at this from the desktop case/cooling/psu manufacturers standpoint?

What would it take for companies like Antec/Coolermaster/Thermaltake/Silverstone to see "growth potential"?

 

[cbn]

Apparently this is being done in China (and surrounding areas) for a certain type of netbook called "S-30".

http://shanzai.com/index.php/market...veals-bill-of-materials-and-slim-slim-margins

In shanzhai circles the S30 netbook has become widely known as one of the most popular 10.1 inch netbook models on the market. The S30 however, is not an actual product. It's closer in fact to what you might call a form factor specification, and actually refers to a specific molded plastic chassis. The motherboard, and indeed every other component, is then designed to fit in and around the chassis.

A variety of shanzhai netbook products from a range of vendors have been based on the S30 chassis mold, giving rise to a swarm of typical 10.1" netbook products that run Intel's N270, sport 1GB of RAM, a 160GB hard drive etc. Understanding the S30 spec also offers some insight into the collaborative nature of the shanzhai, and the intense collaboration required of chassis, display and board producers.

 

[corkyg]

Would you really want to live under China's system? 🙂

 

[cbn]

Would you really want to live under China's system? 🙂

I see your point. "S-30 netbook" won't appeal to most people. People in the US and elsewhere like tinier and sleeker notebooks every year. This involves proprietary designs in order to achieve certain battery life vs. form factor size metrics.

But what happens when the highest practical battery life and minimum size has been achieved? How much extra battery life over a certain amount is really needed?

Maybe once consumers finally get their minimum acceptable battery life, more performance (rather than more battery life) would be desired with every SOC/mainboard/RAM die shrink/parts swap?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

This idea. It is terrible.

 

[cbn]

This idea. It is terrible.

Thanks for your honesty.

I was thinking Intel Light peak would go a long way to make this chassis standard easier for manufacturers like Antec and Coolermaster to accept? (re: One type of port might allow more industrial design creativity from chassis makers).

 

[fffblackmage]

Definitely possible, but most people seem content with their cheap laptops.

Most people are also probably content with being able to upgrade RAM and HDDs with relative ease. I wish I could upgrade my laptop's cruddy LCD screen though... not that most people would. Do most people even replace broken screens? Or just buy another laptop?

Oh, I suppose the MXM format or whatever has been long dead?

 

[Emulex]

what kind of warranty would you expect from this? the thermal dynamics of a modern laptop not easy - very expensive heat pumps unless you want a 120mm fan on the bottom of your laptop lol.

 

[WildW]

Oh, I suppose the MXM format or whatever has been long dead?

As far as I could figure MXM for laptop graphics cards was never really a consumer standard, just something the made life easier for the manufacturers. I had a laptop with MXM-slotted GPU, and looking around on forums to see whether I could upgrade it the consensus seemed to be that even if a card physically fits, it may or may not work depending on all sorts of factors.

Let's be realistic here - what would we actually want to upgrade in a laptop? Most laptops have reasonable CPUs but hopeless integrated graphics. I'm hoping this is going to be much less of an issue a year or so from now, when CPUs have a half-decent GPU built in. At that point, so long as you can reach the CPU easily to swap in a new one, and the bios isn't fussy about recognising a new CPU, I'd be happy.

 

[cbn]

Even in desktop computers, the only reason standards survive is that they leave ridiculous amounts of empty space inside the computer to accommodate variations in components. As you get smaller, the wiggle room decreases, until you get the point where every design must be customized for the specific components intended for it.

I've been designing Mini-ITX cases lately and that's already maddening enough. The complexity of designing a laptop or a phone boggles my mind.

How do you feel about mineral oil?

In a recent thread here at Anandtech I was quite surprised to see Puget Systems getting 4.6 Ghz with an extreme edition Core 2 Quad.

Maybe filling some of this empty space you are talking about with oil that improves heat transfer to an aluminum case could lead to more efficient designs?

This in contrast to the Little L-shaped aluminum bracket Apple uses to help xfer heat to the aluminum chassis of Mac Book Air (Scroll down to step 16 in this ifixit teardown to see what I am talking about )

The L-shaped aluminum bracket on the heat sink rests tightly against the lower case, providing thermal conductivity without making an electrical connection to the chassis. The inside of the lower case has a patch of non-conducting material to aid this thermal dissipation.

P.S. I know a lot of the watercooling crowd objects to using mineral because cleaning the PCB for resale is nearly impossible, but with laptop mainboards I think were are talking about a lower cost part. This in contrast to the price of a good laptop LCD screen, battery and aluminum laptop chassis.

 

[vbuggy]

This in contrast to the Little L-shaped aluminum bracket Apple uses to help xfer heat to the aluminum chassis of Mac Book Air (Scroll down to step 16 in this ifixit teardown to see what I am talking about )

And it doesn't fucking work either.

Oil = too messy. Especially if you leave it up to someone like Apple (heavily used early wc'd G5's are now leaking like sieves).

 

[cbn]

Oil = too messy. Especially if you leave it up to someone like Apple (heavily used early wc'd G5's are now leaking like sieves).

Leaking oil would definitely be a terrible thing.

However, I've read about electronics with Ingress Protection ratings of 67 and 68 before. Does anyone have opinions or comments on this? Would the seals be able to keep the oil in the Laptop if it were dropped?