Is AMD still undefeated in budget builds?

[VirtualLarry]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

With an AMD GPU (must be GCN 1.1) and Mantle, an FX-8350 can really outdo an Intel quad-core, if it is stuck running on DirectX (say, with an NVidia GPU).

It's a real enabling technology (so far limited to what, two games released that will support it? More are coming along the pipeline though) for AMD's CPUs that are many-cored, lower-IPC.

 

[escrow4]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

With an AMD GPU (must be GCN 1.1) and Mantle, an FX-8350 can really outdo an Intel quad-core, if it is stuck running on DirectX (say, with an NVidia GPU).

It's a real enabling technology (so far limited to what, two games released that will support it? More are coming along the pipeline though) for AMD's CPUs that are many-cored, lower-IPC.

By advantage I suppose you mean crutch:

http://www.techspot.com/review/793-thief-battlefield-4-mantle-performance/

"So far, Mantle isn't proving to be that groundbreaking. With AMD's API enabled, we only get another 5% performance out of Battlefield 4 using a Radeon R9 290X and an Intel or AMD processor. We found the same result in Thief using Intel's CPUs but AMD's benefited with up to 67% more performance by using Mantle at 2560x1600, though this is largely because AMD processors perform poorly in Thief to begin with."

EDIT:

@Arkaign

That rubbish mobo will blow the VRMs sooner rather than later:

http://www.overclock.net/t/943109/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-125w-tdp-processors

As well as other random threads (Asrock too, not just MSI). I'd rather spend on a locked i5 + H87 and a decent GPU. False economy again.

 

[JeffMD]

The FX6350 and FX8320 are good buys for the price range, but once you tip $200 intel flies ahead and never stops. I rebuilt with a fx6300 cause it blew away my q6600 setup, but now that amd does not intend to continue with any faster FX chips I regret it as now my next upgrade has to be an intel.

 

[ascalice]

Meh, the Intel Core i3-4130 competes well with some of the AMD CPUs for only like $20 more. In return, you are getting faster performance and lower power consumption.

 

[MongGrel]

If you mean eats a lost of power and hot maybe.

I used to have a few years ago just don't these days.

*shrug* personal preference I guess.

 

[ascalice]

I would rather spend the money on a core i3. I am a fan of the i3-4130 and i3-4330.

 

[Enigmoid]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

With an AMD GPU (must be GCN 1.1) and Mantle, an FX-8350 can really outdo an Intel quad-core, if it is stuck running on DirectX (say, with an NVidia GPU).

It's a real enabling technology (so far limited to what, two games released that will support it? More are coming along the pipeline though) for AMD's CPUs that are many-cored, lower-IPC.

Not really. As long as the GPU is mantle compatible those gains will be seen.

 

[Arkaign]

By advantage I suppose you mean crutch:

http://www.techspot.com/review/793-thief-battlefield-4-mantle-performance/

"So far, Mantle isn't proving to be that groundbreaking. With AMD's API enabled, we only get another 5% performance out of Battlefield 4 using a Radeon R9 290X and an Intel or AMD processor. We found the same result in Thief using Intel's CPUs but AMD's benefited with up to 67% more performance by using Mantle at 2560x1600, though this is largely because AMD processors perform poorly in Thief to begin with."

EDIT:

@Arkaign

That rubbish mobo will blow the VRMs sooner rather than later:

http://www.overclock.net/t/943109/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-125w-tdp-processors

As well as other random threads (Asrock too, not just MSI). I'd rather spend on a locked i5 + H87 and a decent GPU. False economy again.

Well, fwiw I have one still running an 8150 @ 4.3Ghz for close to two years now (similar mobo). It's a 970 Extreme3. The 980DE doesn't seem appreciably different than the old 970 in power delivery. And my old build was bulldozer rather than Vishera even.

A locked i5 is still about $70-$80 more expensive with an H87 than a 6300 + mobo. It's what happens when the product is better, it costs more.

 

[kyrax12]

$800 budget build


you poor guy

Hey I just thought in terms of gaming standards, $800 is considered to be budget.

The high end video card like the Gtx 770 is like $350 and that is already a good chunk out of that $800 budget.

 

[frozentundra123456]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

With an AMD GPU (must be GCN 1.1) and Mantle, an FX-8350 can really outdo an Intel quad-core, if it is stuck running on DirectX (say, with an NVidia GPU).

It's a real enabling technology (so far limited to what, two games released that will support it? More are coming along the pipeline though) for AMD's CPUs that are many-cored, lower-IPC.

What does the CPU have to do with running mantle? Talk about invalid comparisons. If you have a gcn 1.1 card you can run mantle on either CPU. If you don't have a gcn card, an FX CPU doesn't magically allow you to run mantle. All mantle does is alleviate some of the ipc weakness of FX in the two games that use it.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

With an AMD GPU (must be GCN 1.1) and Mantle, an FX-8350 can really outdo an Intel quad-core, if it is stuck running on DirectX (say, with an NVidia GPU).

It's a real enabling technology (so far limited to what, two games released that will support it? More are coming along the pipeline though) for AMD's CPUs that are many-cored, lower-IPC.

Mantle doesn't magically work better with AMD CPUs; it helps to reduce the CPU bottleneck so that that worse CPUs aren't holding the performance back as much. Basically, you're still better off running an Intel CPU even if you're planning to use Mantle. That's why no one brought up Mantle, because it is an advantage for AMD GPUs and a crutch for their CPUs

Not that Mantle stands a chance now that OpenGL and DirectX are in full swing again. Glide didn't stand a chance and it was the exclusive API of the most coveted brand. AMD can't claim the same, and Mantle does less for its hardware today than Glide did for 3Dfx back then.

 

[crashtech]

Yeah. That's pretty much it.

However, let's play devil's advocate. Newegg build time! I'll choose exactly what I think would make the best Intel and AMD gaming systems that are well rounded PCs and would provide enjoyment and minimal annoyance. I'll aim at $1000 right with a legal OS, and pick things that have low shipping or free shipping, most importantly for the case). For the sake of streamlining this, we'll assume the person has an existing display/keyboard/mouse/speakers of some type.

Best deal on AMD Gaming build :

Windows 8.1 Pro Keycard : $99 (download ISO from different PC, write to USB or DVD)
Rosewill Redbone Case : $35 (free shipping)
Enermax 550W ECO Modular : $70
DVDRW : $20
Samsung EVO 128GB SSD : $85
Toshiba 2TB HDD : $75
Kingston HyperX 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1866 : $70
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo : $35
AsRock 980DE AM3+ Mobo : $70 (8 Sata, USB 3.0, Sata 6gps, used these to do 8320 @ 4.7Ghz rock solid before)
AMD FX-6300 CPU : $120 (stock 3.5Ghz, dead easy/silent to hit 4.2Ghz on stock volts)
MSI TwinForce 770 2GB OC Edition : $320

Okay, so that brings us to $1k dead even. Ends up with fast SSD+2TB Storage setup, mobo that supports up to 32GB ram and can OC into the 4.5Ghz range if desired, 6-Core FX under a cooler that is VERY quiet and keeps it chilly, a VERY nice gaming GPU, in a nice case with a rock solid PSU.

Let's shift the things around to fit in an Intel i5.

AsRock Pro4 Mobo $105
Intel 4670K CPU $240
XFX R260X 2GB OC $150

So you end up with the same thing, but a better CPU combined with a 260X (7790 rebadge). For gaming, I'd take the FX @ 4.2Ghz + GTX 770 every time.

Of course, one could cut the SSD, go with a cheaper PSU, try to scrape some dollars here and there. Anything to keep the SSD in the system.

If the price difference was zero I'd pick the i5 100/100 times. With limited funds, it gets more interesting. I guarantee that in the vast majority of games, the 4.2Ghz FX6300 setup + GTX770 would wipe the floor with the i5 + 7790/R260X.

Really wish I had the bucks and the time to see how an i3-4130 would paired with a nice card like a 770. This is admittedly a mismatch, but I want to say it will trade blows with a 6300 depending on the game. I guess the 6300 is somewhat better short term, but if I was in that budget bracket I would probably go with an i3 just to get a platform with a lot more performance potential. For someone able to put together such a system, selling the i3 and buying an i5 later would be an easy and affordable upgrade.

Mantle helps i3s, right?

 

[escrow4]

Hey I just thought in terms of gaming standards, $800 is considered to be budget.

The high end video card like the Gtx 770 is like $350 and that is already a good chunk out of that $800 budget.

Hee hee, my 780 Ti Ghz was just over $900 here, and the 500GB SSD I put in the system was slightly more than that 770 . . . . :whiste:

 

[Arkaign]

Really wish I had the bucks and the time to see how an i3-4130 would paired with a nice card like a 770. This is admittedly a mismatch, but I want to say it will trade blows with a 6300 depending on the game. I guess the 6300 is somewhat better short term, but if I was in that budget bracket I would probably go with an i3 just to get a platform with a lot more performance potential. For someone able to put together such a system, selling the i3 and buying an i5 later would be an easy and affordable upgrade.

Mantle helps i3s, right?

That's all true. I just have a hard time buying dual cores in 2014 :\ I wonder if the gap will widen or narrow over time. On the Intel side you have AVX2 (that's not cut from i3s is it?), higher IPC, and DC+HT. For AMD there are 6 cores, and the potential for DX12 to loosen the CPU bottleneck a bit.

Either way I heavily prefer i5s when budget allows. Rational or not, I just dislike i3s since they locked them down, and don't feel they offer a compelling value.

 

[OCGuy]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

In the real world, people don't make a decision based off of BF4 and Thief.

 

[SPBHM]

And no-one here has yet brought up the Mantle API advantages for AMD CPUs?

mantle works with any slower CPU.

not really an advantage for AMD CPUs only.

the 6300 is very nice for the price, as long as it don't force you to use more of your budget for MB or cooling.

but for a gaming build I would do the possible to squeeze an i5 4570 and go cheap with the motherboard (think the cheapest h81-b85s) to have more consistent performance across all games and the future.

 

[Arkaign]

mantle works with any slower CPU.

not really an advantage for AMD CPUs only.

the 6300 is very nice for the price, as long as it don't force you to use more of your budget for MB or cooling.

but for a gaming build I would do the possible to squeeze an i5 4570 and go cheap with the motherboard (think the cheapest h81-b85s) to have more consistent performance across all games and the future.

I do think the i5 is a better option as well.

In an ideal world, they would be $99 i3, $149 i5, $189 i5-K. Would make a nice spread I think. But, considering inflation, we're better off than the days of $700 FX-51, $300 X2-3800+ and Q6600 for $800+ (launch) or $530 (April '07 Price Cut). We've seen so many eras where there wasn't much for budget guys to work with, so $120 for a 6300, or $199 for a 4570 doesn't really seem that bad, particularly after considering inflation.

 

[BSim500]

"Mantle doesn't magically work better with AMD CPUs; it helps to reduce the CPU bottleneck so that that worse CPUs aren't holding the performance back as much. Basically, you're still better off running an Intel CPU even if you're planning to use Mantle. That's why no one brought up Mantle, because it is an advantage for AMD GPUs and a crutch for their CPUs"

"Mantle helps i3s, right?"

Indeed:-

BF4 i3-4130 Mantle = 36/56/68
BF4 FX-8350 Mantle = 36/56/68
http://www.techspot.com/review/793-thief-battlefield-4-mantle-performance/page2.html

Thief i3-4130 Mantle = 42/61/72
Thief FX-8350 Mantle = 42/57/59
http://www.techspot.com/review/793-thief-battlefield-4-mantle-performance/page3.html

i3-4130 = 55.6fps DX11 -> 86.5fps Mantle.
http://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficzn...nych_battlefield_4_mantle_vs_directx?page=0,6

i3 Ivy bridge -> Haswell IPC is up to 20% higher IPC in some games (due to wider core really helping hyper-threading). Meanwhile, the poor 3.1-3.3GHz clock speeds of Sandy Bridge have gone up to 3.6 and soon (i3-4360) 3.7GHz (a 20% boost), higher than an i5-4570's max Turbo Boost for 1-2T. Of course for video editing and anything else with 100% constant core loading, etc, they're still slower, but for a general budget gaming rig for most games out there, they've come a long way over the past 2 years.

 

[SlowSpyder]

By advantage I suppose you mean crutch:

http://www.techspot.com/review/793-thief-battlefield-4-mantle-performance/

"So far, Mantle isn't proving to be that groundbreaking. With AMD's API enabled, we only get another 5% performance out of Battlefield 4 using a Radeon R9 290X and an Intel or AMD processor. We found the same result in Thief using Intel's CPUs but AMD's benefited with up to 67% more performance by using Mantle at 2560x1600, though this is largely because AMD processors perform poorly in Thief to begin with."

EDIT:

@Arkaign

That rubbish mobo will blow the VRMs sooner rather than later:

http://www.overclock.net/t/943109/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-125w-tdp-processors

As well as other random threads (Asrock too, not just MSI). I'd rather spend on a locked i5 + H87 and a decent GPU. False economy again.

The FX6300 is a 95 watt CPU, stock volts and a bump or two of the multiplier won't make things dramatically different . I used an MSI K9A2 Platinum with an overclocked/overvolted Ph 9850, overclocked/overvolted PhII 940, and ending on an overclocked/overvolted 1090T for over five years. I believe that is a 4+1 power delivery on that motherboard. I'm not advocating cheaping out and then overclocking, at least not shooting for the moon on a low end board, but you're speaking in absolutes that aren't necessarily true.

 

[TeknoBug]

Mantle is like sweet candy to i3's and APU's (also those with dual graphics setup).

The difference on my i5 and i7 are still noticeable but with DX it isn't hindered so much and Mantle crashes BF4 right now anyways.

As for budget builds, my $320 laptop has an A4 5000 "Jaguar" APU (1.5GHz 4 core) and the iGPU is actually rather impressive, I've been playing SWTOR, F1 2013 and Assetto Corsa on it.

@Arkaign

That rubbish mobo will blow the VRMs sooner rather than later:

http://www.overclock.net/t/943109/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-125w-tdp-processors

Oh yeah? Been OC'ing my 955BE and 1090T on a 4+1 board for years, that board is still in operation right now in my mother's PC.

I know VRMs can go snap crackle pop if they can't handle the power throughput if you try extreme OC (especially high LLC setting).

 

[KaRLiToS]

I would buy AMD but they can't keep up with intel. I remember when I had my Athlon XP... this CPU was the sh*t.

Now, no AMD cpus is strong enough for my needs. If they had a good product, I would be all over it.

Unfortunately, my last CPUs were
-Intel Q6600
-Intel Q9550
-Intel Q9650
-Intel i7 930
-Intel i7 3930k
-Intel i7 4930k

And today, I would prefer a i5 4670k to a FX 8350

 

[Deceneu]

It still is the undefeated budget build.

I was making great cheap rigs for games in 2002 with AMD K7 and even now ,when you are on a tight budget AMD is the right way of getting this goal.

As the new FM 2 socket delivers a great power efficiency as well i don t see way a normal user would pay more for a Intel based rig.

For similar Intel and AMD rigs on the Intel one i would have to pay at least 40% more overall.Why would i do that if an AMD quad core manages to play games just fine.

With Mantle the choice of going for an AMD CPU based rig is even easier.

 

[MeldarthX]

I run both; both run everything I do fairly well; though Intel has issues when I start overloading what I'm running; vpn; at least 4 browsers with about total 50ish tabs opened; 4 remote desktops I hammer my systems at work......normally my I5 gives out before my 8120.....but not sure if everyone would have what I have open as a network admin

AMD handles that without any issues; gaming; my 8120 which will be replaced soon with 8320 or 8350; runs everything fine.

I would not recommend a dual core now; even with hyper threading as console hardware's changed; they will be using more threads. We've seen just how fast duals fall off.

Quad core; Intel or AMD is the way to go; the apu systems are awesome for cheap systems; he's going 800.......

that's a fairly decent set up there. honestly going with slightly less cpu and better gpu is the way to go for gaming budget.

 

[Jimzz]

If you live near a microcenter the 8320 is cheaper now and still gets the motherboard discount. A 970 board and a 8320 leaves a good deal of money for a ssd and best video card you can get after that.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It still is the undefeated budget build.

I was making great cheap rigs for games in 2002 with AMD K7 and even now ,when you are on a tight budget AMD is the right way of getting this goal.

As the new FM 2 socket delivers a great power efficiency as well i don t see way a normal user would pay more for a Intel based rig.

For similar Intel and AMD rigs on the Intel one i would have to pay at least 40% more overall.Why would i do that if an AMD quad core manages to play games just fine.

With Mantle the choice of going for an AMD CPU based rig is even easier.

40% more for an Intel system of similar performance is absurd. The CPU itself isn't even 40% more, much less the entire system cost. There are specific price ranges for certain applications that amd offers good value, but it certainly isn't the undefeated budget build.