Is Al Qaeda Just a Bush Boogeyman?

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Is it conceivable that Al Qaeda, as defined by President Bush as the center of a vast and well-organized international terrorist conspiracy, does not exist? To even raise the question amid all the officially inspired hysteria is heretical, especially in the context of the U.S. media's supine acceptance of administration claims relating to national security. Yet a brilliant new BBC film produced by one of Britain's leading documentary filmmakers systematically challenges this and many other accepted articles of faith in the so-called war on terror.

"The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear," a three-hour historical film by Adam Curtis recently aired by the British Broadcasting Corp., argues coherently that much of what we have been told about the threat of international terrorism "is a fantasy that has been exaggerated and distorted by politicians. It is a dark illusion that has spread unquestioned through governments around the world, the security services and the international media."

Stern stuff, indeed. But consider just a few of the many questions the program poses along the way:

? If Osama bin Laden does, in fact, head a vast international terrorist organization with trained operatives in more than 40 countries, as claimed by Bush, why, despite torture of prisoners, has this administration failed to produce hard evidence of it?

? How can it be that in Britain since 9/11, 664 people have been detained on suspicion of terrorism but only 17 have been found guilty, most of them with no connection to Islamist groups and none who were proven members of Al Qaeda?

? Why have we heard so much frightening talk about "dirty bombs" when experts say it is panic rather than radioactivity that would kill people?

? Why did Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld claim on "Meet the Press" in 2001 that Al Qaeda controlled massive high-tech cave complexes in Afghanistan, when British and U.S. military forces later found no such thing?

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conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Say what? Al Qaeda exists. To claim otherwise is ridiculous.

As for Rumsfeld's statement, well, he's a proven liar so who can believe him?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Say what? Al Qaeda exists. To claim otherwise is ridiculous.
It would be awfully convient for them if it did exsist in the form they want you to be scared of.
I highly recommend the movie. Those brits sure are giving the neocons a headache!
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
No, Al Qaeda and Osama are real bad guys, and we were right to go after them and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Bush's bogeyman was Saddam and his alleged weapons of mass destruction. That was all smoke and mirrors. Now, even the official, final report confirms that the only WMD's were Bush's Weapons of Mass Deception. :|

Like we didn't already know that... :roll: :(
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
But we are told by the RBH'rs that US actions are recruiting many more into AQ every day. They should be massively huge by now, according to them.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.

If given the chance...

Americans aren't good at gauging risks. Pre-9/11 they didn't take terrorist anger seriously enough, now they are overstating the danger. Or just like they thought Iraq was anywhere close to launching a couple WMDs against an American city. Now rednecks think that their local watertower is a top target for al-quada. Laughable.

There are some risks from terrorists and nukes, and that's why I'm all about spending money on border security (e.g, making cargo containers don't have any).



 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
But we are told by the RBH'rs that US actions are recruiting many more into AQ every day. They should be massively huge by now, according to them.
The Dub's illadvised and illprepared excellent adventure in Iraq sure isn't making us any friends in the M.E.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
BT, DT

I recommend the video but this is about the article. The video has been around for awhile, yes I know.
The article discusses the content of the film, which was discussed in the previous thread. Additionally, the thread I linked was not the only thread dedicated to the discussion of the content in The Power of Nightmares.

iirc, there were some factual errors discovered in the film in the discussion and an e-mail was sent to Adam Curtis requesting clarification. I don't remember if a reply was ever received.

 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
But we are told by the RBH'rs that US actions are recruiting many more into AQ every day. They should be massively huge by now, according to them.

Nah TLC, These are the new bullys on the block.. (if you haven't seen this...it's bad stuff (not like sick violent though just freaky)
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
But we are told by the RBH'rs that US actions are recruiting many more into AQ every day. They should be massively huge by now, according to them.
The Dub's illadvised and illprepared excellent adventure in Iraq sure isn't making us any friends in the M.E.
We've never had many friends in the ME. But at least we are killing our enemies there now instead of standing around with our colletive thumbs in our bums as was the case previously.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.

if people like you were in charge of running things in this country, there would have been another attack, possibly bigger than 9/11.

you are underestimating the enemy, the enemy is a smart group of people with really evil minds and hate, they wont stop at anything to kill us.

Bin Laden's top man said "we should kill 4 million Americans, 2 million children"

they are planning a next great attack, and we should so everything in our power to stop them before more Americans die.

and I am really happy that people like you are not in power
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.

if people like you were in charge of running things in this country, there would have been another attack, possibly bigger than 9/11.

you are underestimating the enemy, the enemy is a smart group of people with really evil minds and hate, they wont stop at anything to kill us.

Bin Laden's top man said "we should kill 4 million Americans, 2 million children"

they are planning a next great attack, and we should so everything in our power to stop them before more Americans die.

and I am really happy that people like you are not in power
Me too but must we have the other extreme in power?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Harvey
No, Al Qaeda and Osama are real bad guys, and we were right to go after them and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Bush bogeyman Saddam and his alleged weapons of mass destruction. That was all smoke and mirrors. Now, even the official, final report confirms that the onlyWMD's were Bush's Weapons of Mass Deception. :|

Like we didn't already know that... :roll: :(

Harvey, it seems to me that your always the voice of reason and common sense around here. I think you should run for office. :D
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg

if people like you were in charge of running things in this country, there would have been another attack, possibly bigger than 9/11.

you are underestimating the enemy, the enemy is a smart group of people with really evil minds and hate, they wont stop at anything to kill us.

Bin Laden's top man said "we should kill 4 million Americans, 2 million children"

they are planning a next great attack, and we should so everything in our power to stop them before more Americans die.

and I am really happy that people like you are not in power

We've been over this. You're uber-fearful. You see danger even where there is none. In all your posts you're just about afraid of everything. If I had been in power I wouldn't have ignored my terrorist czar pre-9/11 or ignored the bin-laden determined to strike America memo. 9/11 could have been averted if people had taken terrorism more seriously in the administration. Did you know they tried to get us on the millenium? That's right, Bill Clinton owned their plans. The administration is just exagerating the risks so frightened folk like you will forget he failed on 9/11 and is doing absurd things in the ME.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
But we are told by the RBH'rs that US actions are recruiting many more into AQ every day. They should be massively huge by now, according to them.
The Dub's illadvised and illprepared excellent adventure in Iraq sure isn't making us any friends in the M.E.
We've never had many friends in the ME. But at least we are killing our enemies there now instead of standing around with our colletive thumbs in our bums as was the case previously.
I wouldn't call the lack of ME friends becasue we had our thumbs in OUR ass. More like the problem is we had our thumb up too many others.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg

if people like you were in charge of running things in this country, there would have been another attack, possibly bigger than 9/11.

you are underestimating the enemy, the enemy is a smart group of people with really evil minds and hate, they wont stop at anything to kill us.

Bin Laden's top man said "we should kill 4 million Americans, 2 million children"

they are planning a next great attack, and we should so everything in our power to stop them before more Americans die.

and I am really happy that people like you are not in power

We've been over this. You're uber-fearful. You see danger even where there is none. In all your posts you're just about afraid of everything. If I had been in power I wouldn't have ignored my terrorist czar pre-9/11 or ignored the bin-laden determined to strike America memo. 9/11 could have been averted if people had taken terrorism more seriously in the administration. Did you know they tried to get us on the millenium? That's right, Bill Clinton owned their plans. The administration is just exagerating the risks so frightened folk like you will forget he failed on 9/11 and is doing absurd things in the ME.

I see danger when there isnt none?? 3000 Americand died on 9/11. remember that

terrorists are plotting the next big attack, everyone thinks so besides you

Bush failed on 9/11? wow man you surprise me with each post, really impressed

our intelligence, both during Clinton and Bush failed us
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.

if people like you were in charge of running things in this country, there would have been another attack, possibly bigger than 9/11.

you are underestimating the enemy, the enemy is a smart group of people with really evil minds and hate, they wont stop at anything to kill us.

Bin Laden's top man said "we should kill 4 million Americans, 2 million children"

they are planning a next great attack, and we should so everything in our power to stop them before more Americans die.

and I am really happy that people like you are not in power
Me too but must we have the other extreme in power?

you mean Bush is too militaristic?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
I see danger when there isnt none?? 3000 Americand died on 9/11. remember that

terrorists are plotting the next big attack, everyone thinks so besides you

Bush failed on 9/11? wow man you surprise me with each post, really impressed

our intelligence, both during Clinton and Bush failed us

I am not going to continue wasting time with you and your appeals to popularity much longer... My advice is to try and focus on causal connections. In your mind there is probably a huge section for 9/11 and some linked vague blob about Al Quada. It's not as black and white as that.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Al Quaeda and muslim radicals are a threat, but nowhere near as large as this administration would have us believe. They pretty lucky on 9/11. If something major happens next it will be because the Shrub administration isn't securing our borders enough and is instead creating more terrorists in the middle-east.
What do you mean no where as large as the DUb says they are? If given the chance they'd nuke us.
But we are told by the RBH'rs that US actions are recruiting many more into AQ every day. They should be massively huge by now, according to them.
The Dub's illadvised and illprepared excellent adventure in Iraq sure isn't making us any friends in the M.E.
We've never had many friends in the ME. But at least we are killing our enemies there now instead of standing around with our colletive thumbs in our bums as was the case previously.
I wouldn't call the lack of ME friends becasue we had our thumbs in OUR ass. More like the problem is we had our thumb up too many others.
It was a mutual reach around in the ME. The west pulled most of the ME countries out of the stone age by developing their oil and made their countries quite rich in the process. In fact, contrary to the desires of the Europeans of the time (particvularly Britain), the US was rather supportive of oil inductry nationalization by many countries in the ME. The supposed interfernce by the US has always seemed little more than a strawman to me and a poorly manufactured excuse by those actively looking for a reason to malign the US.

Anyway, my comment was related to allowing our enemies there to flourish but keeping our thumbs buried and doing little to nothing. I wasn't talknig about making friends.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Say what? Al Qaeda exists. To claim otherwise is ridiculous.

It is Al Qaeda Terrorists from Moracco that invaded Spain and blew up their Trains. Al Qaeda was responsible for blowing up the USS Cole, Al Qaeda blew up our Embassys in Africa. Al Qaeda is trying to get a foothold in Russia. Al Qaeda attacked us in Somalia. All over the World Al Qaeda is spreading their hate and converting people to make their opium so they can buy more arms and explosives to attack us with.

You can choose not to beleive in them, but that will not make them go away. They have repeatedly attacked the USA. There is no reason for them to stop attacking us.