is AGP 8x reaching its limit anytime soon?

[angryswede]

I've heard a few people here and there say that AGP is outdated and PCIe cards perform much better, but isn't AGP 8x have a bandwidth of 20GB/s. Just wondering if that is anywhere near saturated?

 

[mwmorph]

pci-e does not perform better besides sli, but if you are building new, pci-e is the only way to go. agp is in the process of being phased out.
in you case, you can still hold out till next year probably anddo a full upgrade to dual core and 939 and pci-e.

 

[cubby1223]

No. But what is true, is AGP 8x has reached its limit in terms of high end card support. I'd be very surprised if we see any GeForce 7800 series in AGP, or the new upcoming Radeons in AGP.

 

[Slappy00]

if I was buying new then yah pci-e but if i had a good AGP card (like i do) then I dont think I woudl upgrade my whole system just for pci-e.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
No. But what is true, is AGP 8x has reached its limit in terms of high end card support. I'd be very surprised if we see any GeForce 7800 series in AGP, or the new upcoming Radeons in AGP.

*sigh* Here it is again...

ATI 2005 Desktop Roadmap shows R520, RV530 and RV515 to be available in both AGP and PCI-E.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: cubby1223
No. But what is true, is AGP 8x has reached its limit in terms of high end card support. I'd be very surprised if we see any GeForce 7800 series in AGP, or the new upcoming Radeons in AGP.

*sigh* Here it is again...

ATI 2005 Desktop Roadmap shows R520, RV530 and RV515 to be available in both AGP and PCI-E.

Poor management decision. PCIE boards have been out in full force for over a year.
Most high end enthusiasts who would purchase a high end video card will be building a new machine and I can gurantee you it wont be cenetered around an AGP MB.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: angryswede
I've heard a few people here and there say that AGP is outdated and PCIe cards perform much better, but isn't AGP 8x have a bandwidth of 20GB/s. Just wondering if that is anywhere near saturated?

As shown here, there is no performance difference between an AGP 6800U and PCI-E 6800U. The only thing PCI-E enables over AGP is the ability to run SLI.

 

[danklumpp]

If you like your AGP card or want to spend a little less on AGP, get a 939-pin nForce3 Ultra Motherboard. You'll have the benefits of dual-channel and great overclocking with the Venice cores on the 939-pin processors.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: angryswede
I've heard a few people here and there say that AGP is outdated and PCIe cards perform much better, but isn't AGP 8x have a bandwidth of 20GB/s. Just wondering if that is anywhere near saturated?

As shown here, there is no performance difference between an AGP 6800U and PCI-E 6800U. The only thing PCI-E enables over AGP is the ability to run SLI.

PCIE also have more upload bandwidth and provides more power.

AGP is a deadhorse. I dont want to see it being beat like ISA was.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Poor management decision.

We'll see. Given the number of posts I've seen of people hoping for newer AGP cards, PCI-E to AGP bridge chips cost $10 apiece which can be simply added to the overall price of the video card. If that enables people to purchase a $450+ video card, I'd say it's a GOOD management decision.

Originally posted by: Genx87
PCIE boards have been out in full force for over a year.
Most high end enthusiasts who would purchase a high end video card will be building a new machine and I can gurantee you it wont be cenetered around an AGP MB.

Obviously. But there are many, MANY more AGP systems out there right now than PCI-E. And not everybody wants to have to replace their motherboard simply in order to have a faster video card.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Genx87
PCIE also have more upload bandwidth and provides more power.

Which only benefits SLI. If you don't use SLI then PCI-E offers nothing. Even the fact that it provides 'more power' means nothing as high end PCI-E video cards STILL need an additional power line, same as AGP.

Originally posted by: Genx87
AGP is a deadhorse. I dont want to see it being beat like ISA was.

PCI offered a performance increase over ISA. PCI-E doesn't.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: angryswede
I've heard a few people here and there say that AGP is outdated and PCIe cards perform much better, but isn't AGP 8x have a bandwidth of 20GB/s. Just wondering if that is anywhere near saturated?

As shown here, there is no performance difference between an AGP 6800U and PCI-E 6800U. The only thing PCI-E enables over AGP is the ability to run SLI.

PCIE also have more upload bandwidth and provides more power.

AGP is a deadhorse. I dont want to see it being beat like ISA was.

Why does the extra power make a difference? We still need additional connectors.

 

[Powermoloch]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Genx87
Poor management decision.

We'll see. Given the number of posts I've seen of people hoping for newer AGP cards, PCI-E to AGP bridge chips cost $10 apiece which can be simply added to the overall price of the video card. If that enables people to purchase a $450+ video card, I'd say it's a GOOD management decision.

Originally posted by: Genx87
PCIE boards have been out in full force for over a year.
Most high end enthusiasts who would purchase a high end video card will be building a new machine and I can gurantee you it wont be cenetered around an AGP MB.

Obviously. But there are many, MANY more AGP systems out there right now than PCI-E. And not everybody wants to have to replace their motherboard simply in order to have a faster video card.

right on :beer:

 

[TTLKurtis]

speaking from a performance standpoint - no. however, AGP support is dwindling, and you will find that the 7xxx series and ATI's next-gen will add support for AGP late in the game if at all.

also you have to take into consideration that if you're running AMD hardware, your system is quickly becoming outdated (okay so i'm being polite, it's very outdated lol) and pretty soon you'll be stuck with a horrible CPU bottleneck even if you have a great AGP card.

 

[hans030390]

I saw some benchies on a mobo that had AGP and PCI-e, and the agp card (i think it was a 6600gt, same brand, just a pci-e and agp version) did a little better.

So no, its not really reaching its limit, but it might sometime. PCI-e was mostly just for the extra power to the cards (no molexes needed).

 

[TTLKurtis]

Originally posted by: hans030390
I saw some benchies on a mobo that had AGP and PCI-e, and the agp card (i think it was a 6600gt, same brand, just a pci-e and agp version) did a little better.

So no, its not really reaching its limit, but it might sometime. PCI-e was mostly just for the extra power to the cards (no molexes needed).

chances are that if the mobo has the ability to use both PCI-E *AND* AGP that performance would suffer on one of the two. normally on those types of boards, i've seen AGP suffer instead of PCI-E, though, so that is strange.

 

[angryswede]

I know AGP support will die eventually and yes my system isnt a raging beast like some of yours. But I am in college so I gotta pinch the pennies...

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: angryswede
I know AGP support will die eventually and yes my system isnt a raging beast like some of yours. But I am in college so I gotta pinch the pennies...

Gotta pinch the pennies eh?

At least you have an A64 system and a 6800. I am still pimping an OCed 1700+ and a 9700Pro.

 

[gac009]

I hear somewhere that the first game to saturate the agp 4x bandwidth was DOOM3, anyone know about this?
If you are upgrading both your MB and video card already then there is no reason no to go PCI-E, however if you are keeping one or the other you wont see any performance lost by staying agp.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: TTLKurtis

Originally posted by: hans030390
I saw some benchies on a mobo that had AGP and PCI-e, and the agp card (i think it was a 6600gt, same brand, just a pci-e and agp version) did a little better.

So no, its not really reaching its limit, but it might sometime. PCI-e was mostly just for the extra power to the cards (no molexes needed).

chances are that if the mobo has the ability to use both PCI-E *AND* AGP that performance would suffer on one of the two. normally on those types of boards, i've seen AGP suffer instead of PCI-E, though, so that is strange.

The new ULI M1695 chipset supports both AGP and PCI-E with no AGP performance degradation like previous PCI-E/AGP combo boards.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471&p=8

Performance of this chipset was said to be...

First and foremost, how does it compare to the excellent performance of the NVIDIA nForce4 chipset? Our brief testing here confirms that the ULi competes very well against NVIDIA, and is a performance drop-in to the NVIDIA performance levels.

ULi did a great job with their new PCIe/AGP chipset. If you are in the market for a new Socket 939 board, then boards based on the ULi M1695/M1567 should definitely be on your shopping list. If you by chance plan to use AGP on your new PCIe board, then ULi M1695/M1567 is the only board that you should have on your shopping list. This AGP on PCIe really works, there are no compromises, and you will not be disappointed.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: angryswede
I've heard a few people here and there say that AGP is outdated and PCIe cards perform much better, but isn't AGP 8x have a bandwidth of 20GB/s. Just wondering if that is anywhere near saturated?

As shown here, there is no performance difference between an AGP 6800U and PCI-E 6800U. The only thing PCI-E enables over AGP is the ability to run SLI.

PCIE also have more upload bandwidth and provides more power.

AGP is a deadhorse. I dont want to see it being beat like ISA was.

Stop trying to convince your self PCI-e is any better than AGP.

It's not as far as video cards go.

4x to 8x made no difference, this didn't either.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Creig
*sigh* Here it is again...

ATI 2005 Desktop Roadmap shows R520, RV530 and RV515 to be available in both AGP and PCI-E.

So you want me to look at a poorly drawn out image that anyone could have made, on some random website, and take that as the definitive word of what the future holds?

I stick by my assumption that the high end graphic card will not be available in AGP form.

Originally posted by: Creig
PCI offered a performance increase over ISA. PCI-E doesn't.

Gee, when AGP first came out, all the review sites and many hardware "gurus" proclaimed AGP was worthless because the initial cards showed no improvement over their PCI counterparts. So what makes today different? What makes you so positive PCI-E has no performance benifits over AGP?

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Creig
*sigh* Here it is again...

ATI 2005 Desktop Roadmap shows R520, RV530 and RV515 to be available in both AGP and PCI-E.

So you want me to look at a poorly drawn out image that anyone could have made, on some random website, and take that as the definitive word of what the future holds?

I stick by my assumption that the high end graphic card will not be available in AGP form.

Originally posted by: Creig
PCI offered a performance increase over ISA. PCI-E doesn't.

Gee, when AGP first came out, all the review sites and many hardware "gurus" proclaimed AGP was worthless because the initial cards showed no improvement over their PCI counterparts. So what makes today different? What makes you so positive PCI-E has no performance benifits over AGP?

At this moment in time, pretty much every review site thats ever reviewed an AGP card against a PCI-E card maybe...

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
So you want me to look at a poorly drawn out image that anyone could have made, on some random website, and take that as the definitive word of what the future holds?

I stick by my assumption that the high end graphic card will not be available in AGP form.

All I did was provide a link to what I believe to be an ATI roadmap showing current and next generation cards. Whether or not you believe it to be genuine is entirely up to you.

 

[sodcha0s]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Creig
*sigh* Here it is again...

ATI 2005 Desktop Roadmap shows R520, RV530 and RV515 to be available in both AGP and PCI-E.

So you want me to look at a poorly drawn out image that anyone could have made, on some random website, and take that as the definitive word of what the future holds?

I stick by my assumption that the high end graphic card will not be available in AGP form.

Originally posted by: Creig
PCI offered a performance increase over ISA. PCI-E doesn't.

Gee, when AGP first came out, all the review sites and many hardware "gurus" proclaimed AGP was worthless because the initial cards showed no improvement over their PCI counterparts. So what makes today different? What makes you so positive PCI-E has no performance benifits over AGP?

It will, in the future, but right now there are none. It's only been within the past couple of years that AGP performance has been stretched past what PCI could provide. AGP has been out for what, 8-10 years?