disappoint
Lifer
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MajinCry
Platinum Member
- Jul 28, 2015
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Got that impression from? Why, the Bible itself!
But don't take my word for it, here, allow me to save you the effort of reading the book!
" As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you." - Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city." - Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB
" Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." - Ephesians 6:5
"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." - 1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." - Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT
"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." - Leviticus 20:9
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." - Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB
"The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'" - Exodus 31:12-15 NLT
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
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The science, while still a bit open in this department, states that your dreams are near random firings of neurons in an upkeep process the brain uses to flush the system of garbage information and reinforce storage and neurochemical stores. As you wake up your conscious mind attempts to form a narrative out of the random information, and that narrative is what you call a dream.
So, how can you be surprised? Well, surprise is a response to a neurochemical. Occasionally that neurochemical store needs to be dumped in the upkeep process and you get a jolt of that chemical causing your brain to go into ‘surprise’ mode, you then create a narrative on why you did that.
Conversations you have in a dream are all made up by you. If you want to see just how good information you get in your dream is try keeping a dream journal and focus on things that are unknown to you but verifiable. This experiment has been done many times, and it always finds that the dream information is no better than random.
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sm625
Diamond Member
- May 6, 2011
- 8,172
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No, a coincidence is a pair of random events. For example the moment I clicked the "submit" button on that last post, I envisioned someone coming along and downplaying something very real and very significant. And low and behold, look what happens. That is a coincidence. What I described is not random at all, and therefore cannot be a coincidence.
SMOGZINN
Lifer
- Jun 17, 2005
- 14,221
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No, a coincidence is a pair of unrelated events that appear related. In your example your guess was not random you had information to work from and came to a logical conclusion from it. The same thing happens to scientists who are working on similar problems. The information they needed to make the breakthrough was made available to both of them at the same time. Being smart or knowledgeable in their fields they both came to the correct hypothesis at around the same times. The amount of time it took to confirm their hypothesis was also similar. What you don’t hear about is the hundreds or thousands of other scientists that were working on the problem that were slower to form the right hypothesis, or took longer to confirm it. No one ever hears about the mathmatician that came up with relitivity two years after Einstein.
Also a part of the 'at the same time' comes from a looser tracking of time. Most of the time what they really mean is within the time frame of the publishing of a scientific periodical, which could have easily been several months. Today we hear about a lot less of those sorts of situations because our time frame for 'at the same time' has gotten a lot smaller.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,132
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I feel that the core purpose of any religion is to inspire hope. Hope for a better life or even after an after life for some or hope to become overlord of other for others, for example, but hope either way. As for the Bible, I think it is essentially a book of parables, but it was written by people, so it's subject to their remembering and interpretation of things, so it can be wrong. I wonder how it would have been written if all the events had occurred during this century. Sadly, it's fanatics, corrupt leaders, and ignorant people that seem to be the most visible, thus causing religion to be so undesirable.
As for God, I feel that we are all the children of God, and I think of it much like a parents and children scenario. Yes, bad things do happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, but we chose to have freedom, so we have to take the good with the bad. As a parent, you can't smother your child forever, you eventually have to let them stand on their own 2 feet so they can live their own lives and that's what we got.
Science is also a religion or rather it's a faith based system as well. It works because the results of our findings allow us to believe it is true. And yet there have been many things in science that were believed to be true until they were proven false, so who's to say that we haven't yet discovered something else that will disprove what we believe today. If science is so precise, why do we have approximations or infinity.
And people ask where God came from and it can easily be countered with where did the particles that created the universe come from and whatever made that up, and whatever made that up, and so on and so forth. In science, everything comes from something, right, yet we still have nothing...and zero. In the end neither question can be definitively answered, so you take either answer based that is given on faith, unless you happened to have been there at the inception of the universe, time, or whatever.
In regards to the afterlife, I don't know if it exists or not, but if it does, cool and if not, oh well. Same thing with beings from other planets.
Here's another example. Would you rather a depressed person be inspired by religion to improve their life or rely on some anti depressant to numb their sense of right or wrong or happy or sad and yet not addressing the conditions that caused their depression?
As for God, I feel that we are all the children of God, and I think of it much like a parents and children scenario. Yes, bad things do happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, but we chose to have freedom, so we have to take the good with the bad. As a parent, you can't smother your child forever, you eventually have to let them stand on their own 2 feet so they can live their own lives and that's what we got.
Science is also a religion or rather it's a faith based system as well. It works because the results of our findings allow us to believe it is true. And yet there have been many things in science that were believed to be true until they were proven false, so who's to say that we haven't yet discovered something else that will disprove what we believe today. If science is so precise, why do we have approximations or infinity.
And people ask where God came from and it can easily be countered with where did the particles that created the universe come from and whatever made that up, and whatever made that up, and so on and so forth. In science, everything comes from something, right, yet we still have nothing...and zero. In the end neither question can be definitively answered, so you take either answer based that is given on faith, unless you happened to have been there at the inception of the universe, time, or whatever.
In regards to the afterlife, I don't know if it exists or not, but if it does, cool and if not, oh well. Same thing with beings from other planets.
Here's another example. Would you rather a depressed person be inspired by religion to improve their life or rely on some anti depressant to numb their sense of right or wrong or happy or sad and yet not addressing the conditions that caused their depression?
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sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,213
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Science is neither a Religion nor is it Faith based. It is the exact opposite of both. It outright rejects Faith and Dogmatism as useful. Instead, Scientific Knowledge must not just be demonstrable, but repeatable as well. If something within Science is shown to be false or incorrect, it is rejected or adjusted to fit the new data.
Ah, but it is based on the faith that your math and calculations are correct. Most things work because they are close enough, but our math is off overall. As an example, a person cutting a 1" board will never have a board that's truly 1". And let's not forget the centuries that people believed the Sun revolved around the Earth. Without fail, it would rise in the East and set in the West, so every day it was proven! And then let's not forget about black holes. How long was it assumed to exist, yet no one had the ability to prove they existed. Sounds like the scientists took faith that their calculations would one day be correct.
What I'm driving at is our mathematics, thus science, is flawed, but because it "works" for our purposes, people take it as canon, so it's like a faith based system, because you believe that is how it's supposed to work.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,213
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Math and Calculations can be confirmed and are regularly. So that's not a matter of Faith.
What revolves around what is also not a matter of Faith. As the evidence was gathered, reality became clearer, previous understandings were abandoned or modified.
Flawed or not, using it is not based on Faith. It is based on the best understanding of the Universe we have. Scientific Knowledge is based upon things that Work within our understanding. As our understanding improves, so does our Scientific Knowledge.
Religion is the opposite. It takes on Faith things that are not evidentiary, such as God(s) and other mystical things. Around those things it basis various practices and moral systems. Fundamentalists ignore or deny contrary evidence to what they have taken on Faith. More liberal adherents to Religion abandon Faith in certain aspects of their Religion as evidence is presented that contradicts it.
Historically, Science grows in understanding over time, Religion shrinks in its' claims to knowledge over time or dogmatically holds to Faith in things that are demonstrably false.
So here its being outlined what to do in case of a war. At least the opportunity and desire is for them to surrender and not fight. But if that country wants to fight then here are the directions. You can kill the men but everything else should be allowed to live. The world isnt perfect so war is an inevitable result.
This is actually a prophecy foretelling the future and it is speaking of what the antichrist will do to Jerusalem. This isnt what god is telling Jerusalem to do.
Change the word slaves with employees. This is just speaking of how you should treat your boss.
Same as above. Christians should be hard and reliable workers.
You disobey the law, you go before the judge and He passes a sentence. You then disobey the sentence you could be held liable to the death penalty. Personally I think this country needs to be a bit stricter in enforcing the law. But fortunately the Bible also teaches mercy.
ya, this isnt just talking about saying a bad word to your parents its actually you trying to curse them. And it could hold the death penalty.
this is hard for many to understand but i would rather die young and go to heaven then live a long and full life and go to hell. Now assuming heaven and hell is real then this would be pretty important.
honestly I was surprised about this one. Especially because in the new testament Jesus often criticized the religious leaders that they followed the law to a T but forgot about mercy and kindness.
From a Bible standpoint the Old testament was to show how severe the law really is. It was to show that there was no way that you could actually live a perfect life. The New testament was put in place through Jesus fulfilling the requirements of the law and substituting himself for us. In simple terms its like me committing a crime but the judge allowing you to go to jail instead of me. Im free, even though I was the one who did wrong.
Now the reason i jumped on your post was that you wrote:
"Ever read the OT? Evil incarnate; commands slaughter, rape, slavery, sex slavery, infanticide, child rape, etc. Not a good book."
Outside of killing in certain instances and being allowed to put people under tribute which was a common practice (in fatc just take a loan out from a bank and you are essentially a slave to the bank) I dont see anywhere in the OT where people are commanded to rape, engage in sex slavery, kill infants or rape children. These unequivocally show that you just read someones opinions and regurgitated it rather than looking at it for yourself. However the OT is an especially big book.:hmm:
Then you wrote:
"The NT? Why, it preaches torture for all eternity if you don't worship Yahweh."
It does say that there is torture for all of eternity but not because you dont worship God. Actually you can curse at God, be mad at Him, yell at Him and still go to heaven. In fact you can live any way that you want. I dont recommend that but you could, The Bible teaches the way you get to heaven and avoid eternal torture is accepting the Jesus as your Lord and substitution. Thats why we call it a free gift.
Anyways there is quite a bit that I still dont understand but saying that Christians are to rape babies is beyond ridiculous.
MajinCry
Platinum Member
- Jul 28, 2015
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Allowed to live? The survivors are taken as slaves and property.
Oh, so you read the next verse? Continue; read the rest of Zechariah 14. This is all in God's plan, which you conveniently did not mention.
You just stated that slavery is no different from a normal occupation. That's retarded.
Workers != Slaves. Why would you even try to equate them? Have you not been to single history class, or hell, even just looked up the dictionary for the definition of "slave"?
Ah, totalitarianism. By your own admission, you vouch for it. No surprise there.
"It could hold the death penalty"
You chose to ignore the part where it says "They must be put to death.". You think it's right to slay someone for cursing their parents, even though curses are just fantastical rituals, at most; otherwise, you'd have taken issue with it.
That's not even a relevant response.
No he didn't. Luke 16:17 - "It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law."
So until around 2015 years ago, humanity was to follow the OT, but all of a sudden, Yahweh went "Okay, they're killing, raping and enslaving each other again, just as I told them to. Maaaaaybe it's time for them to lay off".
He did this by sacrificing himself to himself, as a sacrifice, to negate the sacrificial law outlined in Leviticus 1-7; emphasis on the whole "ultimate sacrifice" shindig.
Christians are still to follow the OT, until the NT covenant is put into effect, the conditions for which are outlined in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Needless to say, they won't ever be fulfilled.
That is to say, you Christians are still to follow the OT. Thankfully, some of you do not follow all of it.
I gave you the verses that state such, in rather plain English.
And no, you're not essentially a slave to the bank. They can't beat you to within an inch of your life, they can't sell you, they can't own you, they can't make you marry one of their workers, they can't own your children, etc.
You clearly have no knowledge of what a slave is.
Read the verses I posted then.
...The verses are from the Bible. I read the book, and thusly came to that conclusion.
Funny how you decided what I did and did not do. It sounds as if you are the one that needs to read it, what with you stating that you found no verses commanding rape, sex slavery and the like. Even though I found several for you.
Sure it does.
Go read Hebrews 6.
...Now you contradict yourself. Earlier, you said:
Wellp, you contradicted yourself by admitting that you go to hell for not believing in Yahweh. No surprise there, though; you do go to hell for not believing in Yahweh, according to the Bible.
Next.
Never said that Christians are to rape infants. I said that the Bible commands child rape.
And it does.
Go read the verses.
Im not saying that they didnt have slaves but its not like God commanded them to be beaten or tortured. Continuing the example you gave of how slaves are to act towards masters the same chapter explains also how masters are to relate towards slaves.
Eph 6:9 You masters, do the same [showing goodwill] toward them, and give up threatening and abusive words, knowing that [He who is] both their true Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with Him [regardless of ones earthly status]. (amplified)
As for Zechariah 14 i dont know how to explain it any better than
14 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you (Jerusalem) will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured and the houses plundered and the women ravished; and half of the city will be exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Oh nevermind I see where you are coming from. verse 2 says "For I, (God) will gather all nations... "Now you can accept this or not. But Bible scholars agree that the OT is often to be understood in the permissive sense, not the causative. Meaning that v2 according to scholars and the fact that the Bible teaches free will it is understood that God isnt orchestrating people to go kill, plunder and rape the Jews but that it would be allowed. Zechariah is telling us that this will happen. Its just like how my mom as well as society taught us siblings not to drink and drive, but that didnt stop my brother from flipping his car cause he was driving drunk. I hope that explains a little. But even if it doesnt feel free to offer a few more examples showing God being in favor of raping infants etc. Just as the Bible tells its students we are to prove the Bible with 2-3 examples found in the Bible.
So again the Bible teaches mercy:New International Version
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
So yes the law is extremely sever and strict. You can read the 10 commandments and get an overall feel of the law and then theres quite a few more written out in detail. But mercy was always recommended. It reminds me of when the Pharisees (the jewish religious leaders) asked Jesus about the law, testing him. The law said the you could divorce woman for any reason. Jesus responded that that is true but not what god wants. Jesus states because of the hardness of humans hearts that that law was permitted. You can read about it in Matt 14.
Again the Bible always teaches mercy
If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: (James 2:8)
and later in the same chapter it says mercy rejoices against judgement.
Anyways if you have any more verses that you think are relevant please feel free to add them. Its ok to disagree Im just not convinced in the way you see things.
Eph 6:9 You masters, do the same [showing goodwill] toward them, and give up threatening and abusive words, knowing that [He who is] both their true Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with Him [regardless of ones earthly status]. (amplified)
As for Zechariah 14 i dont know how to explain it any better than
14 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you (Jerusalem) will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured and the houses plundered and the women ravished; and half of the city will be exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Oh nevermind I see where you are coming from. verse 2 says "For I, (God) will gather all nations... "Now you can accept this or not. But Bible scholars agree that the OT is often to be understood in the permissive sense, not the causative. Meaning that v2 according to scholars and the fact that the Bible teaches free will it is understood that God isnt orchestrating people to go kill, plunder and rape the Jews but that it would be allowed. Zechariah is telling us that this will happen. Its just like how my mom as well as society taught us siblings not to drink and drive, but that didnt stop my brother from flipping his car cause he was driving drunk. I hope that explains a little. But even if it doesnt feel free to offer a few more examples showing God being in favor of raping infants etc. Just as the Bible tells its students we are to prove the Bible with 2-3 examples found in the Bible.
So again the Bible teaches mercy:New International Version
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
So yes the law is extremely sever and strict. You can read the 10 commandments and get an overall feel of the law and then theres quite a few more written out in detail. But mercy was always recommended. It reminds me of when the Pharisees (the jewish religious leaders) asked Jesus about the law, testing him. The law said the you could divorce woman for any reason. Jesus responded that that is true but not what god wants. Jesus states because of the hardness of humans hearts that that law was permitted. You can read about it in Matt 14.
Again the Bible always teaches mercy
If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: (James 2:8)
and later in the same chapter it says mercy rejoices against judgement.
Anyways if you have any more verses that you think are relevant please feel free to add them. Its ok to disagree Im just not convinced in the way you see things.
blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
- 8,702
- 507
- 126
I actually believe that religions are just traditions that people dress up spirituality with. And it's possible to be very religious and not very spiritual and vice versa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozzUkVr7ndk
This song sums up the tragedy of followers Islam and Christianity being mistrustful of each other a lot of the time
Not to mention the fact that people also take away different lessons from the same texts depending on their personality for want of another word... spirituality perhaps?.
Personally I am agnostic as one cannot obtain empirical proof that can be reliably replicated in a scientific manner.
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozzUkVr7ndk
This song sums up the tragedy of followers Islam and Christianity being mistrustful of each other a lot of the time
Not to mention the fact that people also take away different lessons from the same texts depending on their personality for want of another word... spirituality perhaps?.
Personally I am agnostic as one cannot obtain empirical proof that can be reliably replicated in a scientific manner.
...
Most Pagan beliefs actually revolve around wish for good fortune (bountiful harvest, no drought or famine, childbirth goes smoothly), so not a desire for an afterlife, but just not to die young and to live without hardship or disasters (floods, war, etc). Life is a struggle for most people so there's not really much of a rational reason to want to live forever. Beyond making sure your kids are alright and ready to carry on the next generation.
It's mostly egomaniacs and rich people who want to believe in an afterlife because they don't want to give up the power they have over other people and want to have it forever. This why traditionally they wanted to be buried with their wealth and slaves.
It's mostly egomaniacs and rich people who want to believe in an afterlife because they don't want to give up the power they have over other people and want to have it forever. This why traditionally they wanted to be buried with their wealth and slaves.
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SlitheryDee
Lifer
- Feb 2, 2005
- 17,252
- 19
- 81
The way my mind deals with that question is by saying "Who knows, but I doubt it". Current theory seems to be that the universe being of a cyclical nature is not at all a certain thing.
Of what value, philosophically or otherwise, is you being born again to live the same life in perpetuity anyway? It certainly gives me no comfort that after my experiences end another me might be born to experience them all over again. For one thing I am a different me from that me. My experience would still be over even as that one is living my life. Doing that an infinite number of times is the same thing as doing it once to my mind. And it would have to be the same set of experiences, because if future iterations of the universe were allowed to vary from this one the odds are suddenly strongly against anything that might be considered "another me" even arising.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,213
- 5,794
- 126
I once was comforted with the thought of reincarnation for a few minutes. Until I realized, as you do, that if I can't draw upon past Lives for guidance, there's no utility in such a scheme.
I suppose I could pay some Woo Woo artist to convince me that I was a Pharoah in a previous life, but I lack the funds and gullibility for that.
MarcoKaraki
Junior Member
- Aug 27, 2015
- 21
- 0
- 0
This thread is ridiculous. Why ponder the ideas of god and afterlife when there is no possibility of achieving information about it in the real world?
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,132
- 382
- 126
Fear of death.
I suppose that's the short answer.
The long answer is when someone realizes their own mortality a cognitive dissonance develops. On the one hand, they realize they are mortal. On the other hand, they want to live forever. They also want their loved ones to live forever.
To resolve this cognitive dissonance they simply have to imagine ways in which they can live forever. Afterlife, reincarnation for example.
Another famous example of cognitive dissonance is the story of the fox and the grapes. The fox is walking along and notices some grapes out of his reach. The dissonance here is that he wants to eat grapes but he cannot reach them. So he says to himself "The grapes are probably sour anyway" and goes on happily along the path leaving the grapes behind. He resolved the dissonance by imagining they were not worth having.
For all he knows the grapes might not have been sour at all. But that's not important to him. The reality of the status of the grapes. What is important to him is how he feels about it.
Many people think they're not lying to themselves for emotional reasons, but many people do all the time, most not even aware of it. Nor do they care to ever be aware of it.
So which kind of person are you? The kind that wants to know what reality really is or the kind that would rather lie to himself if it feels better?
To put the question in The Matrix terms: Red pill or blue pill?
I was never instructed by anyone, I came to believe by my own deductions. My parents although they were Christians believed very strongly not to push it and to let me figure out my own path in life without shoving religion down my throat. I came to believe in God through the study of Zoology. Even if there isn't an afterlife I still believe in God, the evidence is everywhere if you look for it. I believe you reincarnate. I don't believe that the bible is the Word of God. I am a Hermetic Christian and strive for truth.
It is natural to believe in God, almost every culture that there has ever been believed in God in some form even though they were separated by great distances and logistics which made it impossible for there to have been one "corrupting" influence.
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