Is Advanced Thought Incompatible With Extreme Strength?

[lxskllr]

That gorilla vid in the Hume thread got me wondering why humans are so weak. We're some of the least physically capable animals around. For most of human history, high strength would be pretty close to being as valuable as intelligence. Why don't humans have both? Is there some reason both attributes can't easily coexist, or is it just a fluke of evolution?

 

[pete6032]

Maybe the smarter you are the less you have to rely on strength. You can create tools or weapons or fees yourself. So the most desirable mates aren't necessarily the strongest ones anymore but the smartest ones.

 

[IronWing]

The brain uses a lot of energy and oxygen. Maybe we had to pick one or the other.

 

[sdifox]

It's more like we are weak so we had to outsmart the rest of the animals

 

[lxskllr]

The brain uses a lot of energy and oxygen. Maybe we had to pick one or the other.

That's the direction I was leaning in, but I'm not certain what that means in absolute terms. Nutrition was fairly hard to come by til recently, so perhaps there wasn't enough to support both. The selection process is interesting though. Say 50k years ago. There's only so many ways to smart yourself through life, and I'm not sure it would be as readily distinguishable to potential mates as brute forcing your way into food/possessions/social power

 

[dank69]

What evolutionary purpose does the gorilla's strength even serve? Don't they eat plants?

 

[IronWing]

What evolutionary purpose does the gorilla's strength even serve? Don't they eat plants?

To beat up Godzilla, duh.

Mostly to beat up other gorillas to get dibs on the babes.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What evolutionary purpose does the gorilla's strength even serve? Don't they eat plants?

Climbing trees & beating up other gorillas and/or scaring off predators so they can mate is the purpose.
Edit:
Darn it Ironwong beat me however not in a gorilla beat down way.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

It's a layered question. Couple of things going on:

Chimps and Gorillas are stacked because of their muscle composition. They sacrifice fine motor control for ass kicking ability. Incredible if you have to beat the shit out of another 800 lb Gorilla, terrible for interpretive dance.

Dense, powerful muscles require a lot of energy. Gorillas and Chimps need a ton of calories, which often means a lot more time spent eating. If you're spending 16 hours a day foraging for food, how the hell are you going to develop society and culture and all those nice things.

High energy requirements also make things tough during lean times. It's postulated that part of the reason Humans out completed (and out fucked I guess) Neanderthals despite relatively similar intelligence levels is Humans needed less food to survive and were able to ride out the last Ice Age while Neanderthals starved (and got literally fucked into submission).

I'm sure there is other stuff, but that's what leaps to mind at the moment.

Not mutually exclusive (Neandetals were turbo built humanlike intelligence hominids) but it makes long term survivability and adaptability much tougher.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It's a layered question. Couple of things going on:

Chimps and Gorillas are stacked because of their muscle composition. They sacrifice fine motor control for ass kicking ability. Incredible if you have to beat the shit out of another 800 lb Gorilla, terrible for interpretive dance.

Dense, powerful muscles require a lot of energy. Gorillas and Chimps need a ton of calories, which often means a lot more time spent eating. If you're spending 16 hours a day foraging for food, how the hell are you going to develop society and culture and all those nice things.

High energy requirements also make things tough during lean times. It's postulated that part of the reason Humans out completed (and out fucked I guess) Neanderthals despite relatively similar intelligence levels is Humans needed less food to survive and were able to ride out the last Ice Age while Neanderthals starved (and got literally fucked into submission).

I'm sure there is other stuff, but that's what leaps to mind at the moment.

Not mutually exclusive (Neandetals were turbo built humanlike intelligence hominids) but it makes long term survivability and adaptability much tougher.

We were probably more adapted to long distance running than our more bulky brethren, which would have permitted us a greater variety of game to hunt and larger areas to cover if food became scarce.

 

[dank69]

To beat up Godzilla, duh.

Mostly to beat up other gorillas to get dibs on the babes.

That's all I could think of as well, but that just doesn't seem like enough to me to explain why they evolved to be so strong.

 

[DigDog]

[science]
you are actually much stronger than a chimp; the determinig factor in how much of that strength you can use is the Pain Threshold, which is directly linked to instinct and aggression.
so yeah, being smart does preclude being strong.
[/science]

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

[science]
you are actually much stronger than a chimp; the determinig factor in how much of that strength you can use is the Pain Threshold, which is directly linked to instinct and aggression.
so yeah, being smart does preclude being strong.
[/science]

Objectively false.

Chimpanzee super strength and human skeletal muscle evolution

Chimpanzee “super strength” has been widely reported since the 1920s although a critical review of the available data suggests that the chimpanzee–human muscular performance differential is only ∼1.5 times. Some hypothesize ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Fanatical Meat]

For example the chimp that literally tore a woman’s face off.
Could anyone in this threat pull someone’s face off?

 

[DigDog]

Objectively false.

Chimpanzee super strength and human skeletal muscle evolution

Chimpanzee “super strength” has been widely reported since the 1920s although a critical review of the available data suggests that the chimpanzee–human muscular performance differential is only ∼1.5 times. Some hypothesize ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

did you read it?

Our results show that chimpanzee muscle exceeds human muscle in maximum dynamic force and power output by ∼1.35 times. This is primarily due to the chimpanzee’s higher fast-twitch fiber content, rather than exceptional maximum isometric force or maximum shortening velocities.

to be fair, i did ignore that we've had a evolutionary decline for something which isn't necessary (i.e. explosive strength) to simplify things, but a 100kg human raised by chimps would fucking obliterate a 40kg chimpazee.

 

[DigDog]

For example the chimp that literally tore a woman’s face off.
Could anyone in this threat pull someone’s face off?

yes, provided that you were on PCP or similar dissociative drugs.

 

[BudAshes]

Where is Alky when you need him?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Golgi Tendon Organ

Original Editor - Lucinda hampton

www.physio-pedia.com

When people lift weights, the golgi tendon organ is the sense organ that tells how much tension the muscle is exerting. If there is too much muscle tension the golgi tendon organ will inhibit the muscle from creating any force (via a reflex arc), thus protecting the you from injuring itself.

Interestingly, one of the ways of building strength is to override this protection mechanism:

 

[IronWing]

Where is Alky when you need him?

I was thinking @Silverprime.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

did you read it?

to be fair, i did ignore that we've had a evolutionary decline for something which isn't necessary (i.e. explosive strength) to simplify things, but a 100kg human raised by chimps would fucking obliterate a 40kg chimpazee.

Huh? Their muscles have a higher strength potential, and an average chimpanzee will far exceed the strength of an average human, even at the weight differences between them. It does not take that much force to break a neck or crush a skull, a chimpanzee can easily handle it.

You can't look at it as a math equation. You have to imagine this fucker trying to pull your arm out of its socket. You can hardly punch it into submission.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

We're adapted for walking upright a lot. If you're top heavy you topple over. Our leg muscled are, relatively, better developed than most.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

That gorilla vid in the Hume thread got me wondering why humans are so weak. We're some of the least physically capable animals around.

Speak for yourself.

Evolutionary pressures change. Look how quickly humans adapted to living at high altitude. Becoming tool users and fire wielders played a big role in how we evolved.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Speak for yourself.

Evolutionary pressures change. Look how quickly humans adapted to living at high altitude. Becoming tool users and fire wielders played a big role in how we evolved.

I’m on whichever side @DAPUNISHER is on when the final battle of the AT Forums happens.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

That gorilla vid in the Hume thread got me wondering why humans are so weak. We're some of the least physically capable animals around. For most of human history, high strength would be pretty close to being as valuable as intelligence. Why don't humans have both? Is there some reason both attributes can't easily coexist, or is it just a fluke of evolution?

Brain Over Brawn. Like most species there will always be those that specialize down one path vs. another. It also helped that the genetic defect in humans resulted from the jaw muscle being severely reduced and allowed our brains to push out the skull. Cosmic ray mutated us into existence. The other primates were too stupid to complain, though.

 

[Zeze]

You guys don't need jesus.

You need Joe Rogan.