IRS Suffers Staggering Defeat

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,359
1
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On a 106-degree May afternoon in 2003, government agents raided several establishments belonging to Southern Nevada businessman Robert ?Bobby? Kahre. With guns drawn, officials held more than 20 handcuffed workers in the sun without water as agents collected records and other materials.

Kahre hadn?t committed a crime. He had upset the Internal Revenue Service by paying his workers based on the face value of gold and silver coins, versus the market value in the Federal Reserve system (the value of the coins in U.S. paper dollars). Even though the coins were in circulation, displayed a face value, and were regulated by Congress, the IRS?s confusing and endless tax code did not determine how to handle these gold and silver coins if used for payroll. The tax code only references dollars. It does not distinguish between coined money and paper money.

Kahre didn?t opt for the precious metal bullion system without first doing his homework. He consulted monetary experts, engaged in extensive research, and even met with congressmen. Kahre?s conclusion was simple: While the currency in the precious-metal system was greater in value than the currency in the other system, as money and a medium of exchange, the law knows no difference between the face value of both currencies.

The IRS expected Kahre to report his workers? earnings based on the coins? market value in the Federal Reserve system. Instead, he didn?t report or pay anything at all because the face value of the coins fell below the reporting threshold. The IRS alleged that Kahre and the other defendants paid at least $114 million (based on the Federal Reserve system) to workers. The use of these coins in trade is a direct challenge to the fiat money system now in place.

?Bobby Kahre is the only person in the world I know of with the courage to do that,? said Joel Hansen, a Las Vegas attorney who represented one of the nine defendants in the case.

While the purpose of the case was to identify the intent of the defendants, the trial that followed tested America?s dual monetary system and further validated that the U.S. greenback is quickly becoming more and more a worthless piece of paper.

In 1985, Ron Paul and other congressmen challenged our country?s currency system, which was monopolized by Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) ? the familiar greenbacks in American wallets. The congressmen successfully pursued the Gold Bullion Coin Act, which required the U.S. government to mint and place gold coins in denominations of $50, $25, $10 and $5 into circulation based on demand. The coins are made of 91.67 percent pure gold.

The ultimate purpose of the act was to allow Americans to invest in gold. However, it also brought sanity back to this country?s monetary system by establishing a dual system. Instead of the Federal Reserve solely providing the money supply by endlessly printing FRNs, the U.S. government now minted and circulated precious metal coins.

In the mid-?90s, Kahre began exercising this alternate system. He compensated workers for their labor in the form of these gold and silver coins versus FRNs. The workers calculated their income and tax liability based on the face value of the coins.

One gold coin with a face value of $50 currently equals $806 in FRNs. If a worker earns a $50 gold coin each week, that person takes home an annual income of $2,600 based on the precious metal system, which is below the income-tax reporting threshold for an employee. However, the value of the coins in FRNs ? $41,912 ? is not. That?s the basic idea.

The IRS did not fancy Kahre?s gold-and-silver payroll system, and after seven years of operating his family businesses in this fashion, he and eight others found themselves as defendants in a Las Vegas federal courtroom. Kahre was charged with 109 counts of tax-related crimes, varying from tax evasion to willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes. Fifty-two other counts were divided among the other defendants.

While the case was about the intent of the defendants, it raised several issues. There was the issue of whether or not Kahre?s workers were considered independent contractors, who are responsible for paying their own taxes, or employees, who have their taxes withheld by their employer each pay period. Then there?s the issue of America?s dual monetary system. If there are two monetary systems, and the value of one system?s currency is greater than the other beyond its face value, what is the standard for determining the value of taxable income?

No Federal Court of Appeals has ever ruled that the gold coins in question must be reported to the IRS based on FRN market value.

?The defense showed that the defendants believed in good faith that a Federal Reserve Note is not the standard because Congress created the dual monetary system,? Hansen said. ?The defendants believed that gold and silver coins are just as legitimate and legal as our other tender, the FRN.?
Kahre certainly caught the attention of the IRS. In addition to operating his businesses via the gold-and-silver payroll system, according to testimony at the trial, he helped 35 other contracting companies do the same.

But even though Kahre and his colleagues followed the dual monetary system mandated by Congress, the IRS didn?t care. To America?s most feared agency, the bottom line was Kahre?s workers weren?t taxed enough for their labor.

Based partially on cases that pre-dated the 1985 Gold Bullion Coin Act, the judge in the case did not allow defense attorneys to argue that Kahre was justified to pay workers based on the face value of the coins. Based on case law, the court concluded that income had to be calculated based on the FRN fair market value, rather than upon the face value.

A flaw with some of those cases was that each referred to double-eagle gold coins, which Franklin D. Roosevelt outlawed in 1934. Those coins are no longer in circulation like the coins minted by the U.S. government following the 1985 Act. The double-eagle coins were deemed to be property for tax purposes in those old cases.

Of course, the judge?s rule was binding upon the parties and was followed by the defense attorneys at the trial. Hansen, under the good faith belief defense, was able to present evidence that his specific client, Alex Loglia, who performed research work for Kahre, did not have intent to commit tax crimes. This interesting twist allowed jurors to still hear the argument that Kahre was justified to pay workers based on the face value of the coins. The U.S. Supreme Court had long before ruled, in the Cheek case, that a good defense in a tax-evasion case is a person had good faith in not following certain tax laws.

?The Supreme Court said, if they don?t have criminal intent, then they are not guilty of tax evasion,? Hansen explained. ?That doesn?t mean you don?t have to pay the tax, but it means you didn?t commit a crime and won?t go to jail for a felony.?

In 2005, Loglia penned a paper that earned him an ?A? from his law school professor Jay Bybee (who just happens to also be a 9th Circuit judge) on the gold-coin issue and the separation of powers. His paper took the position that, under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5 of the Constitution, Congress alone had the power to coin money and set its value.

Loglia?s position was that the judicial branch does not have this power.

?The judge applied those old court cases, but we were still able to make the argument that Alex was not criminally liable because he believed in good faith in the use of the face value of the gold and silver coins for tax purposes,? Hansen said. ?Loglia?s 100-page legal paper was great evidence for the jury of his good faith belief.?

Beyond the courtroom, there is another significant issue with the Kahre case ? it gives attention to the ever-decreasing value of the Federal Reserve Note.

One Euro is now worth $1.45 in FRNs. A Chinese Yuan buys the same as $1.34 in FRNs. Even the Canadian dollar is now more valuable than our paper currency. Compared to the American buck, it?ll buy seven cents more in goods and services.

?Because of how much stronger the Euro is compared to an American FRN, the Federal Reserve just pumped up to $50 billion of FRNs into Federal Reserve banks to prop up the banks,? Hansen said. ?But when they do that, every dollar that you have in your pocket is now worth less.?

However, America?s other monetary system ? gold and silver coins ? does not decrease in value. It becomes more valuable in terms of FRNs. Americans, though, rely on the FRN, and its rapid decline will sooner than later decimate the middle class, Hansen said.

Take socialist Karl Marx?s theory, for example. He believed the most effective way to obliterate the middle class involved a system of progressive taxation coupled with inflation. In the Federal Reserve?s case, if the bank continues to inflate the currency so that everybody moves into higher and higher tax brackets, eventually everybody will pay 30 to 40 percent of their income to taxes in Federal Reserve Notes, all while the FRN decreases in value due to inflation.

?By using the gold coins, Kahre was beating Karl Marx, the socialists and the liberals who want people to pay more and more so they can have bigger and bigger government,? Hansen said. ?Kahre challenged the whole system and that?s why the IRS came down so hard on him and his associates.

?The IRS doesn?t want this going on; they want you to use their fiat money and be forced into higher tax brackets through progressive taxation coupled with inflation. That way there?s no limit on the money they can issue and inflate.?

On Sept. 17, after four months of trial and days of deliberation, the Las Vegas federal jury returned with its verdicts. The courtroom was crowded as the IRS and Department of Justice filled the entire area on their side of the chambers with its officials.

Hansen was uncertain of what to expect. He just hoped that the jurors listened closely to the evidence presented.

?I could tell in the closing arguments, as I was watching the jury, that they were sympathetic to what I was saying. But what they were going to do, I did not know,? he recalled. ?I think the government, because it had packed the courtroom, was confident they were going to get numerous guilty verdicts.?

Rather, jurors delivered zero guilty verdicts. Three defendants, all workers, were acquitted as well as Kahre?s mother, who worked as a runner for her son?s businesses. Two other defendants were partly acquitted ? the jury hung on one count each. The jury also hung on all counts faced by Kahre, Loglia and Kahre?s sister, resulting in mistrials.

?I?m telling you that I have never seen such a dejected group of people leave a courtroom in my life,? Hansen said of DOJ and IRS officials. ?They were shocked. Of course, we were pleased.

?The thing is, they had 161 counts and they did not get a guilty verdict on a single one. They got a big goose egg. We didn?t get not-guilty verdicts for everyone, but the government didn?t get anything.?

The IRS was supposed to notify the judge in late October if the agency intended to retry the five defendants on the charges that resulted in a hung jury. The government waffled, indicating they would pursue another grand jury and issue superceding indictments. More information will be known by mid-November.

Looking back, Hansen recalls what may have been a key turning point in the trial. The government called three accountants to testify. The defense asked each one, ?What is the proper way to calculate income for purposes of the Internal Revenue Code if you are paid in a gold coin that has a $50 face value on it?? All three of them responded, ?I do not know; I?ll have to research that.?

?One of them had a masters degree in taxation!? Hansen observed, saying their answers made it difficult to prove the defendants willfully committed tax crimes. ?If accountants and masters of taxation don?t know the answer to this question, how in the world can they expect anything different from an ordinary person who is confronted with a dual monetary system created by Congress??

Hansen believes it was uncalled for to prosecute Kahre and the other eight defendants criminally. The case revolved around a complicating and confusing legal issue. It should have been handled civilly, Hansen said, but the IRS wanted to make an example of these defendants because the federal government simply doesn?t want anyone paying a lower tax than what the feds determine should be paid.

?If a coin says it is a $50 gold piece, and it says ?In God We Trust,? and the law says that it is legal tender, and it is in circulation, isn?t it reasonable for people to think that they can calculate their tax liability based on that?? Hansen asks. ?If a tax accountant can?t answer that question, how can a common worker be guilty of a crime? The outcome of this case is a magnificent victory for those of us who believe that the United States of America should have an honest monetary system.?

Source: Liberty-Watch

Rense

Superb! Do doubt in time the irs will come up with something to counter this regardless of the constitution. Good to see the little guy win for a change.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Four-month trial ends with no convictions

A criminal tax case alleging income tax evasion and conspiracy dissolved in federal court this week, when a jury returned zero convictions on 161 charges faced by nine defendants.

Monday's verdict "sends a strong message," said defense attorney Lisa Rasmussen, who represented Joel Axberg, a tile layer.

Informally called the Kahre case -- after the primary defendant, local business owner Robert Kahre, who paid workers in gold and silver coins -- the trial lasted four months. It relied heavily on evidence gathered in a controversial armed raid in May 2003 on several of Kahre's local business places. The raid entailed keeping more than 20 workers handcuffed, at gunpoint, in 106-degree heat without shade or water while agents collected records and equipment.

"Yeah, that's a pretty major victory," said defense lawyer William Cohan. "If you go 0 for 160 (in baseball), they'd send you down to the minor leagues."

Cohan was upbeat although his client, Kahre, was not acquitted of any of his 109 charges. Rather, the jury hung on all of Kahre's counts.

Michael Kennedy, who defended Lori Kahre, said the case turned on the notion that taxpayers could be wrong without being criminal. He was referring to the fact that his client, Lori Kahre, and other defendants had not paid taxes according to the market value of the precious metal content of the coins in which they were paid, as opposed to their face value. He conceded at trial that his client may owe federal taxes for her mistakes.

The Internal Revenue Service had never before provided guidance on how to handle gold and silver coins that circulate, only on noncirculating collectible coins, according to Kennedy, who is a federal public defender. "If that's the case, we're not going to take someone's liberty from them, on something that a (certified public accountant) with a master's degree doesn't even know. That's a scary country, and I don't live in that country."

Acting U.S. Attorney Steven W. Myhre issued a statement through Collins that thanked jurors, investigators and prosecutors. "Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the jury to decide whether the government met its burden of proof in the case and we accept their decision." He said the office will "soon decide" whether to retry any defendants.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Only the employees got off.
The head people only got hung jury notices. I.E. they will be retried and probable found guilty.



Robert Furman - Not guilty on all charges.
Ronald Ruggles - Not guilty on all charges.
Myra Buonomo - Not guilty on all charges.
Joel Axberg - Not guilty on all charges.

Debra Rosenbaum - Not guilty on 8 counts of 7201. Hung jury on 371.
Danielle Alires - Not guilty on 371. Hung jury on bank fraud and 7201.

Robert Kahre - Hung jury on all counts.
Lori Kahre-Rasmussen - Hung jury on all counts.
Alexander Loglia - Hung jury on all counts.


 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Perry404

Superb! Do doubt in time the irs will come up with something to counter this regardless of the constitution.

How long have you been here? There is no Consitituion any longer.

This has nothing to do with the Constitution. The Constitution allows income tax.

What it does have to do with is a complicated tax code, yet even so one can find "lopholes" or gray areas of the law. So, with thousands of pgaes of tax law, this "angle" has not been addressed, or apprarently even litigated.

It also reflects upon the judgement of the Department of Justice (The IRS does not prosecute criminal tax fraud cases, that is the purview of the DoJ). No doubt they thought that they had a good case, the DoJ does not lightly enter into cases of this sort.

Given the lack of clear law on this issue, Congress will likely act or the IRS will issue regulations on the matter.

If the business owner is paying his employees in these coins, but claiming only "$50" worth it would mean his corresponding deduction would also be $50. I.e., he's not really geting a wage deduction for employee pay; this would mean his business income is artificially high and he would be paying a lot more in income tax.

So, income taxes would be paid, just by the employer not the employee. It would indicate that SS taxes were the only thing not collected by the government.

Fern
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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The IRS will get its pound of flesh, eventually; the verdicts exonerate the defendants on the criminal charges, but it doesn't close the issue of face value vs. market value of the coins. Expect to see assets seized, accounts frozen, and the same defendants back in civil court for collection of back taxes and payroll taxes. If this mode of payment continues, you can expect new criminal charges, as the TaxMan asserts that this trial should have served notice that tax law was violated.
The little guy has no chance anymore. See dmcowen674 above.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Awesome. I hope they lose the retrials too.
 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,359
1
76
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
The IRS will get its pound of flesh, eventually; the verdicts exonerate the defendants on the criminal charges, but it doesn't close the issue of face value vs. market value of the coins. Expect to see assets seized, accounts frozen, and the same defendants back in civil court for collection of back taxes and payroll taxes. If this mode of payment continues, you can expect new criminal charges, as the TaxMan asserts that this trial should have served notice that tax law was violated.
The little guy has no chance anymore. See dmcowen674 above.

I tend to agree but the movement has only just begun and as the economy worses and people begin to feel the "bite" of taxes more eyes are being opened. Things look bleak but I am always hopeful. I've seen more victories against the irs in the past two years than I ever thought possible.
Sometimes pain can be a good thing. We'll see where the American people take this as the debt of the war and hyperinflation comes to fruition.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
The IRS will get its pound of flesh, eventually; the verdicts exonerate the defendants on the criminal charges, but it doesn't close the issue of face value vs. market value of the coins. Expect to see assets seized, accounts frozen, and the same defendants back in civil court for collection of back taxes and payroll taxes. If this mode of payment continues, you can expect new criminal charges, as the TaxMan asserts that this trial should have served notice that tax law was violated.
The little guy has no chance anymore. See dmcowen674 above.

The IRS has already assesed tax on the transaction; wouldn't be a criminal case otherwise.

I would imagine that they already collected, or have taken measures to do so.

When the IRS assesses tax and you dispute it, you may go to court (tax or appeals), I think it unlikely that the DoJ has moved to prosecute for criminal tax fraus if the case(s) haven't already been resolved in the government's favor. How can you be guilty of tax fraud of never owed the money to begin with?

In short, the IRS has probrably already gotten it's "pound of flesh" (money).

Fern
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
However, America?s other monetary system ? gold and silver coins ? does not decrease in value. It becomes more valuable in terms of FRNs. Americans, though, rely on the FRN, and its rapid decline will sooner than later decimate the middle class, Hansen said.

Take socialist Karl Marx?s theory, for example. He believed the most effective way to obliterate the middle class involved a system of progressive taxation coupled with inflation. In the Federal Reserve?s case, if the bank continues to inflate the currency so that everybody moves into higher and higher tax brackets, eventually everybody will pay 30 to 40 percent of their income to taxes in Federal Reserve Notes, all while the FRN decreases in value due to inflation.

?By using the gold coins, Kahre was beating Karl Marx, the socialists and the liberals who want people to pay more and more so they can have bigger and bigger government,? Hansen said. ?Kahre challenged the whole system and that?s why the IRS came down so hard on him and his associates.

?The IRS doesn?t want this going on; they want you to use their fiat money and be forced into higher tax brackets through progressive taxation coupled with inflation. That way there?s no limit on the money they can issue and inflate.?
This is propagandistic distortion, because there is nothing inherent in progressive taxation that requires it to be unfair and kill the middle class. If progressive taxation is implemented correctly, it's the fairest system because it taxes people according to what they can, and should, be able to give back. It takes into account that money/resources helps people to get more money/resources, unlike the stealthily regressive "flat" tax the rich so often promote.

Progressive taxation is, like any taxation, supposed to be the way a government supports the common good by reducing stratification. Progressive taxation is the best form of taxation because it erodes stratification most effectively. Fear-mongering in the form of "progressive taxation will eliminate stratification" is not justified because the rich control all societies and will not eliminate stratification. And, even with progressive taxation, the rich will create loopholes to make it regressive. So fear not! The great ("socialist") evil that is fairness will never come to pass, at least not for long at all.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: superstition
However, America?s other monetary system ? gold and silver coins ? does not decrease in value. It becomes more valuable in terms of FRNs. Americans, though, rely on the FRN, and its rapid decline will sooner than later decimate the middle class, Hansen said.

Take socialist Karl Marx?s theory, for example. He believed the most effective way to obliterate the middle class involved a system of progressive taxation coupled with inflation. In the Federal Reserve?s case, if the bank continues to inflate the currency so that everybody moves into higher and higher tax brackets, eventually everybody will pay 30 to 40 percent of their income to taxes in Federal Reserve Notes, all while the FRN decreases in value due to inflation.

?By using the gold coins, Kahre was beating Karl Marx, the socialists and the liberals who want people to pay more and more so they can have bigger and bigger government,? Hansen said. ?Kahre challenged the whole system and that?s why the IRS came down so hard on him and his associates.

?The IRS doesn?t want this going on; they want you to use their fiat money and be forced into higher tax brackets through progressive taxation coupled with inflation. That way there?s no limit on the money they can issue and inflate.?
This is propagandistic distortion, because there is nothing inherent in progressive taxation that requires it to be unfair and kill the middle class. If progressive taxation is implemented correctly, it's the fairest system because it taxes people according to what they can, and should, be able to give back. It takes into account that money/resources helps people to get more money/resources, unlike the stealthily regressive "flat" tax the rich so often promote.

Progressive taxation is, like any taxation, supposed to be the way a government supports the common good by reducing stratification. Progressive taxation is the best form of taxation because it erodes stratification most effectively. Fear-mongering in the form of "progressive taxation will eliminate stratification" is not justified because the rich control all societies and will not eliminate stratification. And, even with progressive taxation, the rich will create loopholes to make it regressive. So fear not! The great ("socialist") evil that is fairness will never come to pass, at least not for long at all.

wow you think the purpose of taxes is to "reduce stratification"? according to whom? founding fathers?
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
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That's what taxation is. It is the redistribution of wealth to support the common good.

If Billie Bob makes $10,000 a year and Freddie Boy makes $1,000,000 a year, a government isn't going to take $10,000 in taxes from both of them. It's going to tax Freddie more which reduces stratification.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Fern
[ ... ]
If the business owner is paying his employees in these coins, but claiming only "$50" worth it would mean his corresponding deduction would also be $50. I.e., he's not really geting a wage deduction for employee pay; this would mean his business income is artificially high and he would be paying a lot more in income tax.

So, income taxes would be paid, just by the employer not the employee. It would indicate that SS taxes were the only thing not collected by the government.

Fern
I don't think so. I imagine the business owner was deducting the purchase cost of the coins as a business expense. This would reduce his overall profit just the same as a traditional payroll, meaning his income taxes would be no higher than normal. He would then claim the face value of the coin as payroll, reducing his FICA expenses as you suggest.

That's my speculation.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: superstition
However, America?s other monetary system ? gold and silver coins ? does not decrease in value. It becomes more valuable in terms of FRNs. Americans, though, rely on the FRN, and its rapid decline will sooner than later decimate the middle class, Hansen said.

Take socialist Karl Marx?s theory, for example. He believed the most effective way to obliterate the middle class involved a system of progressive taxation coupled with inflation. In the Federal Reserve?s case, if the bank continues to inflate the currency so that everybody moves into higher and higher tax brackets, eventually everybody will pay 30 to 40 percent of their income to taxes in Federal Reserve Notes, all while the FRN decreases in value due to inflation.

?By using the gold coins, Kahre was beating Karl Marx, the socialists and the liberals who want people to pay more and more so they can have bigger and bigger government,? Hansen said. ?Kahre challenged the whole system and that?s why the IRS came down so hard on him and his associates.

?The IRS doesn?t want this going on; they want you to use their fiat money and be forced into higher tax brackets through progressive taxation coupled with inflation. That way there?s no limit on the money they can issue and inflate.?
This is propagandistic distortion, because there is nothing inherent in progressive taxation that requires it to be unfair and kill the middle class. If progressive taxation is implemented correctly, it's the fairest system because it taxes people according to what they can, and should, be able to give back. It takes into account that money/resources helps people to get more money/resources, unlike the stealthily regressive "flat" tax the rich so often promote.

Progressive taxation is, like any taxation, supposed to be the way a government supports the common good by reducing stratification. Progressive taxation is the best form of taxation because it erodes stratification most effectively. Fear-mongering in the form of "progressive taxation will eliminate stratification" is not justified because the rich control all societies and will not eliminate stratification. And, even with progressive taxation, the rich will create loopholes to make it regressive. So fear not! The great ("socialist") evil that is fairness will never come to pass, at least not for long at all.

wow you think the purpose of taxes is to "reduce stratification"? according to whom? founding fathers?

taxes cause income stratification by their very nature.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: superstition
That's what taxation is. It is the redistribution of wealth to support the common good.

If Billie Bob makes $10,000 a year and Freddie Boy makes $1,000,000 a year, a government isn't going to take $10,000 in taxes from both of them. It's going to tax Freddie more which reduces stratification.

if you take 10000 a year from bill and 20000 from bob does that really reduce stratification?

going further, if you tax bill 1000 and fred 100000, are you sure that that will be enough to prevent increasing income stratification?
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: superstition
taxes cause income stratification by their very nature.
Explain.

perhaps what i could have said is that they have effect on income distribution.


anyways by the fact that congress have the power to tax it also certainly has the power to decide who to tax and for whatever reasons they want.
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: superstition
That's what taxation is. It is the redistribution of wealth to support the common good.

If Billie Bob makes $10,000 a year and Freddie Boy makes $1,000,000 a year, a government isn't going to take $10,000 in taxes from both of them. It's going to tax Freddie more which reduces stratification.

if you take 10000 a year from bill and 20000 from bob does that really reduce stratification?

going further, if you tax bill 1000 and fred 100000, are you sure that that will be enough to prevent increasing income stratification?
The logical purpose behind taxation is to redistribute wealth for the common good by reducing stratification. Certainly, regressive taxation schemes exist. But, they oppose the very point of taxation, and civilization.

The best way to reduce stratification is progressive taxation because it properly taxes proportionally, taking into account that "money makes money", something that stealthily regressive "flat" tax fails to do.

A society that regressively taxes hurts itself.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,676
2,430
126
Did they have the OJ Simpson jury sitting again in this trial? Sure sounds like it.

No justice system is perfect. Every once in a while there is an abberation and a guilty man walks. Sure sounds like that is what happened here.
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
Every once in a while there is an abberation and a guilty man walks. Sure sounds like that is what happened here.
He's guilty for using one of the two forms of US currency to pay employees?