Iraqi Conference on Election Plan Sinks Into Chaos

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/16/international/middleeast/16baghdad.html
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Aug. 15 - A conference of more than 1,100 Iraqis chosen to take the country a crucial step further toward constitutional democracy convened in Baghdad on Sunday under siege-like conditions, only to be thrown into disorder by delegates staging angry protests against the American-led military operation in the Shiite holy city of Najaf.

After an opening speech by Iraq's interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, delegates leapt out of their seats demanding the conference be suspended. One Shiite delegate stormed the stage before being forced back, shouting, "We demand that military operations in Najaf stop immediately!"

Shortly afterward, two mortar shells fired at the area where the meeting was being held landed in a bus and truck terminal nearby, killing 2 people and wounding at least 17.

The three-day conference, called to elect a 100-member commission that will organize elections in January and hold veto powers over decrees passed by the Allawi government, was not halted. But reporters who had been told to wear flak jackets and helmets when entering the convention center complex past American tanks were frantically waved back from the center's plate glass windows as the mortar shells exploded, shaking the complex and rattling the windows.

In many ways, the scene seemed like a metaphor for America's problems in Iraq, with the rebel attacks that have spread to virtually every Sunni and Shiite town across this country of 25 million threatening to overwhelm plans for three rounds of national elections next year, ending with a fully elected government in January 2006.

Just as American troops in Najaf have failed so far to quell an uprising by a rebel Shiite cleric, Moktada al-Sadr, so on Sunday's showing here, American political plans for Iraq remain hostage to the violence that has made much of the country enemy territory for the Americans.

The fighting in Najaf, which resumed Sunday after the Allawi government walked out of truce talks, is part of a wider insurrection across southern Iraq by militiamen loyal to Mr. Sadr, who has cast himself as a tribune of the Shiite underclass and as the leader of a national resistance movement against American troops.

The signs in Najaf were of preparations for yet another attempt to force Mr. Sadr and a force of perhaps 1,000 men from his Mahdi Army militia to relinquish control of the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiism's holiest shrine, and by defeating them there, to begin rolling back the challenge he poses to plans to stabilize the country.

After a day of sporadic gunfire and explosions that shook Najaf's Old City, with the mosque at its center, reporters said they had seen American tanks blocking almost every street leading to the shrine, some as little as 1,000 yards away.

American commanders spoke of tightening the cordon they threw around the Old City last week, but of leaving any attempt to move into the immediate vicinity of the shrine to the Iraqi forces that Prime Minister Allawi said Saturday would now carry the brunt of the Najaf fighting.

By using Iraqi troops, Dr. Allawi and the American officials who are his partners in Baghdad hope to avoid the eruption of fury among Iraq's majority Shiites - and across the wider Shiite world, particularly in Iran - if American troops were seen to have damaged or desecrated the mosque, which is revered as the burial place of Imam Ali, Shiism's founding saint.

In a further sign that a new push against Mr. Sadr might be imminent, the Allawi government ordered the expulsion of all reporters working in Najaf, Iraqis as well as Westerners, and even warned Najaf residents working as freelancers for Western news outlets to cease work.

"I received orders from the interior minister, who demands that all local, Arab and foreign journalists leave the hotel and the city within two hours," Gen. Ghaleb al-Jazairi, Najaf's police chief, told newsmen at the hotel on the edge of the Old City that has become a news media headquarters. He gave as his reason the government's inability to protect the journalists if major new battles erupted.

Continued


Yeah...So easy to install a democracy. Piece of cake. I mean, all the criticisms about no exit plan were completely unwarranted!
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: nick1985
who said it was going to be a piece of cake? :confused:
The rhetoric from the administration and its pundit supporters.

Why do you think there was no exit plan? No organized plan for building an Iraqi government? No organized plan for maintaining security post-invasion?

Iraq is one big FUBAR operation, courtesy the neocons.
 

viivo

Diamond Member
May 4, 2002
3,345
32
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Conjur: posted 11:00 PM
nick1985: posted 11:01 PM

Heh.

who said it was going to be a piece of cake?

The current administration? "They'll welcome us as liberators" and such.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: nick1985
who said it was going to be a piece of cake? :confused:
The rhetoric from the administration and its pundit supporters.

Why do you think there was no exit plan? No organized plan for building an Iraqi government? No organized plan for maintaining security post-invasion?

Iraq is one big FUBAR operation, courtesy the neocons.

So how long should it take to get a goverment installed and working?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: nick1985
who said it was going to be a piece of cake? :confused:
The rhetoric from the administration and its pundit supporters.

Why do you think there was no exit plan? No organized plan for building an Iraqi government? No organized plan for maintaining security post-invasion?

Iraq is one big FUBAR operation, courtesy the neocons.
So how long should it take to get a goverment installed and working?
How long did it take in Germany and Japan?

This administration went into Iraq completely blind and unprepared.

Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are both on the record stating they were unprepared for the insurgency that's been active since the spring. Hell, *I* saw it coming! How could they not have?!
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: nick1985
who said it was going to be a piece of cake? :confused:
The rhetoric from the administration and its pundit supporters.

Why do you think there was no exit plan? No organized plan for building an Iraqi government? No organized plan for maintaining security post-invasion?

Iraq is one big FUBAR operation, courtesy the neocons.
So how long should it take to get a goverment installed and working?
How long did it take in Germany and Japan?

This administration went into Iraq completely blind and unprepared.

Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are both on the record stating they were unprepared for the insurgency that's been active since the spring. Hell, *I* saw it coming! How could they not have?!

7 or 8 years before the goverments of japan and germany were handed back to the people of those countries.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
How long did it take in Germany and Japan?

This administration went into Iraq completely blind and unprepared.

Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are both on the record stating they were unprepared for the insurgency that's been active since the spring. Hell, *I* saw it coming! How could they not have?!
7 or 8 years before the goverments of japan and germany were handed back to the people of those countries.
There ya have it.

So, is it reasonable for this administration to claim they turn Iraq into a democracy less than 2 years after the start of the invasion? It wouldn't be they were playing politics knowing 2004 is an election year now, would it?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: conjur
How long did it take in Germany and Japan?

This administration went into Iraq completely blind and unprepared.

Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are both on the record stating they were unprepared for the insurgency that's been active since the spring. Hell, *I* saw it coming! How could they not have?!
7 or 8 years before the goverments of japan and germany were handed back to the people of those countries.
There ya have it.

So, is it reasonable for this administration to claim they turn Iraq into a democracy less than 2 years after the start of the invasion? It wouldn't be they were playing politics knowing 2004 is an election year now, would it?

I dont think such a claim has been made. The claim has been made the iraq goverment continues to make progress in that direction and that we are staying until the job is done.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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You don't think such a claim has been made?

Then what do you call the elections planned for Jan. 2005? A dog-and-pony show?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: conjur
You don't think such a claim has been made?

Then what do you call the elections planned for Jan. 2005? A dog-and-pony show?

A start of the political process in Iraq.


But you are welcome to call it a dog and pony show if it makes you feel better.
 

Kibbo

Platinum Member
Jul 13, 2004
2,847
0
0
Charrison,

Given the history of similar situations, do you think that it will be successful? If so, what is different in this case?
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
Conjur, I don't think this administration ever implied that installing a new gov't would be "easy". In fact I remember Bush saying that we will stay the course no matter how long it takes. I don't believe he ever specifically stated this would be a piece of cake, nobody is that stupid I hope.

In any event, Conjur it seems like you almost want this interim gov't to fail?
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
It isn't actually all that bad yet. The Shiites who were protesting were actually making a structured demand..form a commitee and negotiate a solution. It could have been much worse...and signals that they haven't totally given up on the political process.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2540-2004Aug15.html


In a remarkable scene of political activism that would have been unimaginable under Baath Party rule, dozens of Shiite delegates jumped to their feet in a loud protest of the interim government's decision to mount military operations to evict followers of the cleric, Moqtada Sadr, from a Shiite shrine in the holy city of Najaf. Chanting "Yes to Najaf!" and raising their fists, the Shiite dissenters demanded that the participants call on the interim prime minister and Sadr's followers to refrain from violence and for a special committee of delegates to negotiate a solution to the crisis.



Iraqis at a forum aimed at selecting a national assembly vote to send a team to Najaf to negotiate an end to the crisis. (Photos Ceerwan Aziz -- Reuters)


The outburst triggered a succession of events that quickly reshaped government policy toward Najaf and instilled the first measure of checks-and-balances in Iraq's nascent political system. The Shiite protesters, along with several non-Shiite participants, caucused and drafted a letter to interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and his cabinet that called for a dialogue with Sadr and "an immediate cease-fire and cessation of all military activities in Najaf and other Iraqi cities."

A four-person delegation from the conference then met with Allawi. When the meeting was over, the government announced that its plans to use force to expel Sadr from the Imam Ali shrine were on hold. In a reversal from its position a day earlier, Allawi's cabinet issued a statement pledging to refrain from military action against Sadr's militiamen and to keep an "open door" to a negotiated settlement.

"This is democracy in action," said Ibrahim Nawar, a U.N. adviser who helped organize the conference. "For now, at least, they have succeeded in changing the government's approach toward the situation in Najaf."

Although senior officials said units from the Iraqi army would still be deployed to Najaf to prepare for an assault on the shrine should Sadr not withdraw, they acknowledged their strategy had shifted. "We're going to give time for a peaceful solution," said Wael Abdul-Latif, the minister of state for provincial affairs.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: Kibbo
Charrison,

Given the history of similar situations, do you think that it will be successful? If so, what is different in this case?

It will only be successful if we stay until the job is done. Germany and Japan took time to rebuild and Iraq will not be much different.