Iraq war vet does great job suming up the "stay the course" arugment in Irq

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: alien42
"655,000 Iraqis dead since invasion, study says" link

congratulations profjohn. you support what many would consider one of the worst genocides in human history.

it is a shame that so many humans (iraqi and american) have had to die because of the ignorance of a few in charge.

The 655,000 dead study seems WAY off base with any sense of reality. That number is based on going around and asking people how many of their friends etc have died.

Researchers randomly selected 1,849 households across Iraq and asked questions about births and deaths and migration for the study led by Gilbert Burnham of Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland.

To get to that high of a number it would take 500! deaths a day, and yet the recent headlines shouted that 2,600 civilians died in Sept, if the 655,00 figure was true the number of deaths in Sept would be more like 15,000.
Two years ago (right before another election, amazing how these types of number pop up before an election) this same group said the toll was 100,000. Now it's 655,000? Over 500,000 have died in the past 2 years? 275,000 a year? I find that hard to believe, if this was true how come there is not one other study or report that puts the number any where near that high?

One last thing, pre war Iraq was thought to have a population of 26 million, if the 655,000 figure is right then 1 out of every 50 Iraqis had died in 3 years? I doubt it.

Find a better argument against the war than some off the wall study.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: SickNic
I served 1 term in Iraq. Does that mean if I say we should leave Iraq, my opinion will have weight?

Form a group of fellow vets with the same ideas, raise some money for a fancy web site, and then get CBS to put you on TV and then we can talk about your ideas.

The ONLY thing that should come for this guys experience is that what he says should not be attacked as some arm chair general making statements from the safety of their living room.
This guy volunteered to go back to Iraq sooner than he would had too "In February, 2004, Wade volunteered to return to Iraq with a shorthanded infantry unit from Camp Pendleton, California."
He has since returned to Iraq as a journalist.

Those experiences don't make his opinion automatically right, but at least he was willing to put his life on the line and stand behind what he believes.

OMG I just agreed with Harvey.... on second thought, we should all listen to what he has to say

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Find a better argument against the war than some off the wall study.

No problem. Even if all the numbers you cite are highly inflated, the Bushwhacko "reasons" for starting their war was based entirely on lies, and they've created such a fuster cluck of a hell hole that the real numbers, their lies, and the further treason and grievous offenses they've committed against the U.S. Constitution and the American people in the name of those lies still condemn them to the sh8heap of history. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

So it is imperative to treat Iraq with the seriousness it deserves right now. That means the President committing 30,000 more troops to secure Baghdad, to seal the borders, to defeat the insurgency and to help the Iraqi Army disarm the sectarian militias that are attempting to provoke a civil war.

Uh, is that really a 'stay the course argument? Sounds like he's saying we FUBAR'd the beginning and its gotten so out of control that we need 20% more troops and then plan to simultaneously deal with an insurgency and both sides of a brewing civil war.

What's more, when the fight in Iraq is viewed through a narrow lens of daily body counts, we lose sight of our long-term national security interests. If we give up on Iraq now, we will inevitably face a more costly military intervention down the road.

Curiously, the long-term national security problem was CREATED by invading Iraq. Arguably, one can make a case for saying we have a long-term problem NOW. But you have to be a tool to think Iraq is going to be straightened out through US military action. Iraqis have to fix Iraq.

Wade (just a few years younger than me I ain't old) Zirkle made a big deal out of Sergeant Saleem but would have been better served if he told the real truth. Iraq needs 400k like Saleem for the military and civilian police force which will take a decade. Iraq also needs a real government . . . which probably won't happen. Both factors are FAR more important to the long-term outcome in Iraq than anything the US military could possibly do.

The problem with people like ProfJohn is that they suffer from a horrible case of confirmation bias . . . and spend most of their time looking for support.

Senator Warner has a grim outlook on Iraq . . .
Senator Snowe calls for reassessment of US strategy
Baker looking for alternatives . . . Bush still delusional

 

[SickNic]

Well, to expand on what I posted earlier, I don't think we should leave Iraq. I think we need to change the way were are dealing with the situation. I went there in the begining of the war, when we were seen as liberators.

I think now we have worn out our welcome, and the people that praised us back then, don't want us there anymore. I'ts hard to distinquish between an insurgent, and a pissed off local (sometimes they are one in the same, sometimes we are the reason they become one)

We shouldn't just pull out, but we need to gradually let Iraq stand on it's on feet.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Pabster
Well, at least we've got the liberals' hypocrisy nailed down pretty good.

When one of these vets comes home and decides to run for office (provided they are Democrat) they are considered saints.

When one speaks out like this vet he is instantly attacked and demeaned.

Is it illogical that two vets might have a different opinion of the situation?

Not one person here attacked anyone.. do you read before posting?

[puts on Neo-Con glasses]Osama, is that you?[/]

Don't pick on papsy, he only likes the opinions that agree with his skewed view of the world and not the ones that fit in with reality.