Iraq to US...we want a timetable for withdrawal....

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Click me!

Well, maybe it's finally time to end this stinking mess of a war. With the improvements in Iraqi daily life and security and now this from the prime minister, it's time to pack it up and start pulling out. Of course, there will be many here that just cringe at the thought of leaving though.

Of course, Bush opposes the idea. How else can we set up our launch pad in the Middle East? :roll:


BAGHDAD - Iraq's prime minister said Monday his country wants some type of timetable for a withdrawal of American troops included in the deal the two countries are negotiating.


It was the first time that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has explicitly and publicly called for a withdrawal timetable ? an idea opposed by President Bush.

He offered no details. But his national security adviser, Mouwaffak al-Rubaie, told The Associated Press that the government is proposing a timetable conditioned on the ability of Iraqi forces to provide security.

In Washington, the State Department declined to comment on the ongoing negotiations and said officials in Washington were not yet entirely sure what al-Maliki had said.

"This falls in the category of ongoing negotiations, and I'm not going to talk about every single development, every single development in the negotiations," spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters.

Al-Maliki said in a meeting with Arab diplomats in Abu Dhabi that his country also has proposed a short-term interim memorandum of agreement rather than the more formal status of forces agreement the two sides have been negotiating.

The memorandum "now on the table" includes a formula for the withdrawal of U.S. troops, he said.

"The goal is to end the presence (of foreign troops)," al-Maliki said.

Some type of agreement is needed to keep U.S. troops in Iraq after a U.N. mandate expires at year's end. But many Iraqi lawmakers had criticized the government's attempt to negotiate a formal status of forces agreement, worried that U.S. demands would threaten the country's sovereignty.

U.S. officials have said little publicly about the negotiations. Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, did not comment directly on the specifics when asked about it on a trip to Baghdad.

"We'd all like to see U.S. troops get out of here at some point in time," Mullen said. "However, from a military perspective I need the laws and the regulations and the agreements from the government of Iraq in order to continue operations beyond the 31st of December of this year."

With the latest moves, Iraq's government appeared to be trying to blunt opposition in parliament to any deal.

Al-Maliki also could be trying to avoid parliament altogether. He has promised in the past to submit a formal agreement with the U.S. to the legislative body.

But his spokesman indicated Monday that the government might feel no need to get approval from parliament for a shorter-term interim deal.

"It is up to the Cabinet whether to approve it or sign on it, without going back to the parliament," said spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh.

Legal experts said the form of the deal was less significant than its substance.

"You could theoretically include everything in a memorandum of understanding that you could in a formal status of forces agreement," said Michael Matheson, an expert on international law at George Washington University Law School.

The Bush administration has said it doesn't need congressional approval even for a full status of forces agreement ? a position criticized by some U.S. lawmakers.

The contentious issues have been U.S. authority to carry out military operations in Iraq and arrest the country's citizens, along with legal immunity for private contractors and control of Iraqi air space.

Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said last week after a visit to Washington that the U.S. had agreed to drop immunity for private contractors and give up control of Iraqi air space if Iraq guaranteed it could protect the country's skies.

But those concessions, never confirmed by the U.S. side, were apparently not enough to cement a formal agreement, leading Iraq instead to pursue the memorandum.

Iraq's government has felt increasingly confident in recent weeks about its authority and the country's improved stability.

Violence in Iraq has fallen to its lowest level in four years. The change has been driven by the 2007 buildup of American forces, the Sunni tribal revolt against al-Qaida in Iraq and crackdowns against Shiite militias and Sunni extremists.

Despite the gains, frequent attacks continue.

A roadside bomb killed four people and injured three others Monday close to the Iranian border near Khanaqin, 90 miles northeast of Baghdad, said border guard Capt. Sarchel Abdul-Karim.

Another bomb near a dress shop in Baqouba killed one woman Monday and wounded 14 other people, police said. Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, and the surrounding Diyala province remain one of the country's most violent regions.

Also Monday, gunmen killed a member of the Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party in Tal Afar, 260 miles northwest of Baghdad, said police, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the media.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: Engineer
Click me!

Well, maybe it's finally time to end this stinking mess of a war. With the improvements in Iraqi daily life and security and now this from the prime minister, it's time to pack it up and start pulling out. Of course, there will be many here that just cringe at the thought of leaving though.

Why do you say that? I don't think there is anyone here who wants to see our troops dying. As a long time supporter of this war (not its management), I am the first to jump for joy that Iraq thinks it is nearing the point where it can manage its own internal security.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: Engineer
Click me!

Well, maybe it's finally time to end this stinking mess of a war. With the improvements in Iraqi daily life and security and now this from the prime minister, it's time to pack it up and start pulling out. Of course, there will be many here that just cringe at the thought of leaving though.

Why do you say that? I don't think there is anyone here who wants to see our troops dying. As a long time supporter of this war (not its management), I am the first to jump for joy that Iraq thinks it is nearing the point where it can manage its own internal security.

There are those that are here that want to use Iraq as a launching ground into other ME countries. I'm sure a few will be so bold as to tell you this.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
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We NEVER INTENED to leave

I wouldn't leave ... those bases were not built for them... we will have bases there and new US owned property for the rest of the existence of this nation
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Genx87
We are idiots if we dont take them up on their offer.

:thumbsup:

Does anyone else find it odd that this provides us with a clear opportunity to declare Iraq a victory, and yet Bush opposes it? What does that mean, I wonder? What could possibly be more important to him than the chance to be the President who won the war?
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Genx87
We are idiots if we dont take them up on their offer.

:thumbsup:

Does anyone else find it odd that this provides us with a clear opportunity to declare Iraq a victory, and yet Bush opposes it? What does that mean, I wonder? What could possibly be more important to him than the chance to be the President who won the war?

You mean that this was bullshit?

Bush Says Iraqi Leaders Will Want U.S. Forces to Stay to Help
By ELISABETH BUMILLER, DAVID E. SANGER and RICHARD W. STEVENSON

Published: January 28, 2005

WASHINGTON, Jan. 27 - President Bush said in an interview on Thursday that he would withdraw American forces from Iraq if the new government that is elected on Sunday asked him to do so, but that he expected Iraq's first democratically elected leaders would want the troops to remain as helpers, not as occupiers.

"I've, you know, heard the voices of the people that presumably will be in a position of responsibility after these elections, although you never know," Mr. Bush said. "But it seems like most of the leadership there understands that there will be a need for coalition troops at least until Iraqis are able to fight."

He did not say who he expected would emerge victorious. But asked if, as a matter of principle, the United States would pull out of Iraq at the request of a new government, he said: "Absolutely. This is a sovereign government. They're on their feet."

Bolded the date of the story for reference.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Genx87
We are idiots if we dont take them up on their offer.

:thumbsup:

Does anyone else find it odd that this provides us with a clear opportunity to declare Iraq a victory, and yet Bush opposes it? What does that mean, I wonder? What could possibly be more important to him than the chance to be the President who won the war?

I'd guess vest corporate interests coupled with desire to project power in the region. Sadly I dont expect democrats in congress to force this administration to take this opportunity to leave with grace. Instead we will force ourselves to remain and not have a happy ending. And even more sadly I dont expect Obama to truely get us out either. McCain is a given on where he stands. Stay at all costs.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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And who is going to cover all those billion dollar no-bid contracts if the US leaves?

And who here is naive enough to think it's about anything other than money that is keeping the US there and that these corporations would take the inevitable financial hit of withdrawal?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
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if the Iraqis want us out, I see no reason to stay in there outside of whatever's necessary to protect our foreign service operations, and I don't see any politician not taking them up on the offer except the one currently sitting in the white house. /facepalm.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
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Originally posted by: 1prophet
And who is going to cover all those billion dollar no-bid contracts if the US leaves?

And who here is naive enough to think it's about anything other than money that is keeping the US there and that these corporations would take the inevitable financial hit of withdrawal?

why would they withdraw? their arrangement was made by the Iraq Oil Ministry, and they were in Iraq before the US was there (pre-Saddam)
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Genx87
We are idiots if we dont take them up on their offer.

:thumbsup:

Does anyone else find it odd that this provides us with a clear opportunity to declare Iraq a victory, and yet Bush opposes it? What does that mean, I wonder? What could possibly be more important to him than the chance to be the President who won the war?

I'd guess vest corporate interests coupled with desire to project power in the region. Sadly I dont expect democrats in congress to force this administration to take this opportunity to leave with grace. Instead we will force ourselves to remain and not have a happy ending. And even more sadly I dont expect Obama to truely get us out either. McCain is a given on where he stands. Stay at all costs.

Well, there are many schools of thought, not all of them liberal, that say that we would never have left Vietnam if not for Watergate. Iraq seems little different to me. These endless wars are about money and nothing else. The politicians have enslaved us to the corporate war machine that will, ironically, be our final downfall.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
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A timetable?!?

how dare Iraq ask for a timetable!!?!?

So what is the whitehouses official response?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Originally posted by: Engineer
Click me!

Well, maybe it's finally time to end this stinking mess of a war. With the improvements in Iraqi daily life and security and now this from the prime minister, it's time to pack it up and start pulling out. Of course, there will be many here that just cringe at the thought of leaving though.

Of course, Bush opposes the idea. How else can we set up our launch pad in the Middle East? :roll:

I thought the surge failed and our presence there is a disaster? Then you go and mention "improvements in Iraqi daily life and security" and contradict the very ground on which opponents to our involvement stand.

Imagine if we had left in 2004 when, for the sake of getting elected, it became a political tool to call for it? Would these improvements have happened without a military to back them up?

As for leaving when Iraq tells us to leave, I'm all for it.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,440
7,504
136
Originally posted by: OrByte
A timetable?!?

how dare Iraq ask for a timetable!!?!?

So what is the whitehouses official response?

This is not 2004. Maybe we have stayed long enough, four years later.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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Originally posted by: Engineer
-snip-
There are those that are here that want to use Iraq as a launching ground into other ME countries. I'm sure a few will be so bold as to tell you this.

If so, I think them foolish. Iraq cannot, and will not, allow that.

This strikes as good news, I'm pleased to see the Iraqi's confident in their ability. And in this case I have no problem with a withrawal timetable/plan as long as it remains somewhat flexible to provide for future developments and the safety of our troops.

As regards the details, this strikes me as a typical bargining process. But it's nice see some details leak out of this overwise confidential deal.

I hope Maliki DOES seek and get parlimentary approval. And I think GWB should get some level of Congressional input/approval as a matter of good practice. But I don't think all of Congress need approve as though it were an offical treaty. In an election year we'll have too much posturing and polical theatre with it.

Fern
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Engineer
Click me!

Well, maybe it's finally time to end this stinking mess of a war. With the improvements in Iraqi daily life and security and now this from the prime minister, it's time to pack it up and start pulling out. Of course, there will be many here that just cringe at the thought of leaving though.
I do not cringe at the idea of leaving -- in fact, I'd welcome it with open arms immediately -- but, I'm still very strongly opposed to any form of a publicly released timetable.

It could be done much more quietly and still result in a timely withdrawal... then again, nobody in senior leadership seems to be able to keep a fucking secret these days, especially when lives are at stake, so I doubt it would remain quiet for very long...

Either way, I very much look forward to the day when our presence in Iraq is reduced to a number similar to our troop strength in Germany or Korea. :thumbsup:
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Engineer
Click me!

Well, maybe it's finally time to end this stinking mess of a war. With the improvements in Iraqi daily life and security and now this from the prime minister, it's time to pack it up and start pulling out. Of course, there will be many here that just cringe at the thought of leaving though.
I do not cringe at the idea of leaving -- in fact, I'd welcome it with open arms immediately -- but, I'm still very strongly opposed to any form of a publicly released timetable.

It could be done much more quietly and still result in a timely withdrawal... then again, nobody in senior leadership seems to be able to keep a fucking secret these days, especially when lives are at stake, so I doubt it would remain quiet for very long...

Either way, I very much look forward to the day when our presence in Iraq is reduced to a number similar to our troop strength in Germany or Korea. :thumbsup:
I look forward to the day when our troop level is that of the Marine Contingent guarding the Embassy and when the war in Iraq is not a business opportunity.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: OrByte
A timetable?!?

how dare Iraq ask for a timetable!!?!?

So what is the whitehouses official response?

This is not 2004. Maybe we have stayed long enough, four years later.

You know the white house was also vehemently against a timetable as early as last year too right?