Iraq residents rise up against al-Qaida, ask for US raid

hellokeith

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Nov 12, 2004
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By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writers

BAGHDAD - A battle raged Thursday in west Baghdad after residents rose up against al-Qaida and called for U.S. military help to end random gunfire that forced people to huddle indoors and threats that kept students from final exams, a member of the district council said.

Meanwhile, a suicide bomber hit a police recruiting center in Fallujah, killing as many as 25 people, police said ? though the U.S. military said only one policeman was killed and eight were wounded. Elsewhere, three policemen and three civilians were killed and 15 civilians were wounded when a suicide truck bomber struck a communications center on the western outskirts of Ramadi, according to Anbar provincial security adviser Col. Tariq Youssef Mohammed.

The American military also reported the deaths of three more soldiers, two killed Wednesday in a roadside bombing in Baghdad and one who died of wounds from a roadside bomb attack northwest of the capital Tuesday. At least 122 American forces have died in May, the third-deadliest month of the Iraq conflict.

U.S. forces backed by helicopter gunships clashed with suspected al-Qaida gunmen in western Baghdad's primarily Sunni Muslim Amariyah neighborhood in an engagement that lasted several hours, said the district councilman, who would not allow use of his name for fear of al-Qaida retribution.

Casualty figures were not immediately available and there was not immediate word from the U.S. military on the engagement.

But the councilman said the al-Qaida leader in the Amariyah district, known as beloved patriot Hameed, was killed and 45 other fighters were detained.

Members of al-Qaida, who consider the district part of their so-called Islamic State of Iraq, were preventing students from attending final exams, shooting randomly and forcing residents to stay in their homes, the councilman said.

U.S. forces also continued a search for five Britons who were kidnapped Tuesday in Baghdad, as well as for two of its soldiers who have been missing since a May 12 ambush south of the capital.

The Fallujah suicide bomber killed at least 10 policemen in the attack, which occurred about 11 a.m., according to a police official in the city who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information. The rest of the dead were civilians, many of them in line seeking jobs as policemen. He said as many as 50 were wounded.

Fallujah General Hospital had received 15 bodies and 10 wounded, according to a doctor there, who would not allow the use of his name because he feared retribution. The physician said he believed other casualties were taken to the nearby Jordanian Hospital and private clinics.

A member of the Fallujah city council, who also asked for anonymity for fear of attack by insurgents, said there were at least 20 killed and 25 injured.

The coordination of information in Fallujah was particularly difficult because the mobile telephone system has been working only sporadically.

Maj. Jeff Pool of the Multi-National Force-West said the Anbar province governor's office and the provincial police put the total number of dead at one Iraqi policeman, with six police and two civilians wounded in Fallujah, 40 miles west of Baghdad.

Police said the bomber detonated explosives in his vest at the third of four checkpoints, standing among recruits who were lining up to apply for jobs on the force. The center had only opened Saturday in a primary school in eastern Fallujah.

The U.S. military and Iraqi army and police were running the center along with members of Anbar Salvation Council, a loose grouping of Sunni tribes that have banded together to fight al-Qaida.

:thumbsup: al-Qaida is getting pounded every where, leaders getting killed, and no support from residents

:thumbsup: Iraqi's standing in line to become police, fully knowing the risks, and not backing down to al-Qaida and other violent elements

:thumbsup: US military successfully completing their mission, with support and comradery from Iraq's army, police, militias, and residents

All key signs the USA mission is succeeding. :)
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Icing on a big pile of steaming poop does not make a sundae.

Seriously, I'm happy that there is confirmation of the sane majority of Iraqi citizens. What I don't see is a solution to the rabid in-fighting between the extremists in the Shiite and Sunni sects, nor of the determined chaos that AQ continually spices things up with.

I'd love nothing more than to see legitimate nation-wide progress in Iraq, and that will only be proven by at least halving nationwide body counts from the monthly trend. Get back to us with numbers to be proud of.

Thank you for the link and post, it is heartening in some degree, regardless of it's ultimate significance.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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This has been happening for years, but good luck getting our media to report it.
AQ isnt having a real good time in Iraq like many would like us to believe. THey are stuck fighting the United States, the Iraqi govt, and the Iraqi insurgents.

 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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My guess is that ultimately the problem in Iraq is not going to be AQ, it's going to be the sectarian fighting. Good to see the Iraqi people getting tired of AQ and helping to root them out.

Lets not forget that AQ did not have any real presence there before the invasion anyway, they simply made use of the opportunity we provided to get a foothold. Now we have to try and uproot them again.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: Genx87
This has been happening for years, but good luck getting our media to report it.
AQ isnt having a real good time in Iraq like many would like us to believe. THey are stuck fighting the United States, the Iraqi govt, and the Iraqi insurgents.

I agree, AQ is primarily a buzz-word used as a scare tactic to try to bolster support for the farcical tragedy of our being there. The core elements of Sunni v Shiite discord are deep-seeded and centuries-old, and no piddly 5 to 100 year US occupation will change that, short of partitioning the country, or installing a strongman like Saddam.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
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Originally posted by: tagej
My guess is that ultimately the problem in Iraq is not going to be AQ, it's going to be the sectarian fighting. Good to see the Iraqi people getting tired of AQ and helping to root them out.

Lets not forget that AQ did not have any real presence there before the invasion anyway, they simply made use of the opportunity we provided to get a foothold. Now we have to try and uproot them again.

QFT
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
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:thumbsup: al-Qaida is getting pounded every where, leaders getting killed, and no support from residents

:thumbsup: Iraqi's standing in line to become police, fully knowing the risks, and not backing down to al-Qaida and other violent elements

:thumbsup: US military successfully completing their mission, with support and comradery from Iraq's army, police, militias, and residents

All key signs the USA mission is succeeding.


:laugh: Let me guess; It's just like an Indiana market in the spring time?
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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Yes, this thread proves hellokeith hates our troops by trying to convince us that things are going great in Iraq.
 

blackllotus

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May 30, 2005
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Originally posted by: hellokeith
:thumbsup: al-Qaida is getting pounded every where, leaders getting killed, and no support from residents

:thumbsup: Iraqi's standing in line to become police, fully knowing the risks, and not backing down to al-Qaida and other violent elements

:thumbsup: US military successfully completing their mission, with support and comradery from Iraq's army, police, militias, and residents

Not a single one of those claims is supported by the article. Everything you underlined has been going on for years.

Originally posted by: hellokeith
All key signs the USA mission is succeeding. :)

Thats not true at all. If our mission in Iraq is to prevent Al-Qaeda from taking over then we can get the hell out because Al-Qaeda has no where near enough power to control a country that is primarily Shia.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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And yet, al-Qaeda has managed to stay alive and become even stronger (if the latest attacks are any proof).

You think those same Iraqis will call on US military help against insurgents or militias? Remember, al-Qaeda is just a small piece of the puzzle over there. Eliminating them (not that it's going to happen, but humor me), will make a small dent in the violence.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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The Hellokeith argument is exactly that way a surge, if successful, could work in Iraq. Until the local population is willing to report Al-Quida operations, and the surge can then keep the
those who turned the Al-Quida operatives safe from reprisals, then the initial conditions for the return of a civilian government are being met. But its always also the leaky row boat contention also. With the question being---we have always been rooting AL-Quida out of Iraq since the occupation began----but are they leaking back in faster than we can bail the boat out?

And blacklotus also asks the correct question----how much of the total Iraqi insurgency is homegrown and has nothing to do with AL-Quida? Its long been my posted position that AL-Quida is less than 5% of what the US fights in Iraq. And that the Iraqi insurgency is mainly homegrown militia leaders who are now the defacto government on the street. There are thousands of such leaders, they are now entrenched and looking out for their own interests, and why should they follow any Al-Quida agenda that has nothing to do with their goals?
And the minor detail and triviality is that Al-Quida is persona non grata with the Shia insurgency----and chasing out AL-Quida in Sunni areas just leaves the local Sunni insurgent leaders in a stronger position and better able to trick the US into supporting them. The illusion that the enemy of my enemy is my friend seldom produces lasting results---and one is always cruising to be disillusioned when you discover you have allied yourself with someone just using you.---as we are now discovering in Afghanistan with the Northern alliance. Who in a nutshell are proving to be the real problem that causes all other problems to become entrenched.

And of course the last damning point made---that not a single claim hellokeith made is supported by the article----we somewhat succeed in conquering 5% of the problem while losing badly on the other 95% of the problem is no one's definition of a victory.
 

shadow9d9

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Jul 6, 2004
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Originally posted by: Genx87
This has been happening for years, but good luck getting our media to report it.
AQ isnt having a real good time in Iraq like many would like us to believe. THey are stuck fighting the United States, the Iraqi govt, and the Iraqi insurgents.

How could this have been happening for years if people continue to die in mass quantity there every day and billions of dollars go there every day?
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
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People will consider Iraq to be getting better if people stop dieing daily and Iraqi police start taking over.. til then, these ridiculous articles are all TALK.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
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If the OP wasn't so serious this thread would be funny as hell. As it stands, it is just pathetic. :roll:
 

mAdMaLuDaWg

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Feb 15, 2003
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IraqTheModel (A well respected Iraqi Blog) has quite a different account of what happend:

Fighting in a western Baghdad district between two insurgent groups continued for the 2nd day, eye witnesses told ITM.
The clashes erupted yesterday around noon between two groups of insurgents that are competing for control in the Amiriya district, one of Baghdad's most violent and lawless districts.

The two groups, teams actually, were later identified; on one side there's al-Qaeda and the Islamic state in Iraq and on the other there's the Islamic army and 'Jaish al-Mujahideen' (The brigades of the 1920 revolution in another account), the latter are know to be largely military and intelligence officers of the former regime as well as members of the Baath Party.

AP has a quite different story though:

A battle raged in west Baghdad on Thursday after residents rose up against al-Qaida and called for U.S. military help to end random gunfire that forced people to huddle indoors and threats that kept students from final exams, a member of the district council said.

While I so much wish this was true, the information I received from inside Amiriyah says that the fighting was mostly between the two groups mentioned above and the intervention by the American troops was only a routine response to the spike in violence.

I just keep wondering how much the MSM actually gets it right in Iraq, afterall, there is a limited number of correspondents covering Iraq so that makes it more likely for an erroneous news report to fall through the cracks... because how many reporters, out of the small pool, are going to be covering the same story?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Part of the problem is a lack of reliable statistics---we have no real handle on the insurgency, what motivates them, and lack a way to measure much of anything. We don't even have a good handle on civilian deaths. About the only reliable stat is US troop deaths and that now is up 50%.

So we have only opinions and no reliable way to gage if we are bailing faster than the water is leaking in or the other way around. And worse than that, the Bush administration keeps trotting out spokesmen who keep pushing back that time required to render any verdict on the mini-surge plan.---a plan that Gen. Petreaus only gave a 25% chance of working.

The Iraq war funding is now set to run out September 30 and Petraeus is scheduled to testify before congress during September. Which then compresses any future funding decisions to the month of September. Barely enough time so I expect some GWB theatrics by August or earlier as an attempt to get funding past September nailed down. And this time, it may be very hard to sell a used war to congress.
 

mAdMaLuDaWg

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Feb 15, 2003
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Part of the problem is a lack of reliable statistics---we have no real handle on the insurgency, what motivates them, and lack a way to measure much of anything. We don't even have a good handle on civilian deaths. About the only reliable stat is US troop deaths and that now is up 50%.

So we have only opinions and no reliable way to gage if we are bailing faster than the water is leaking in or the other way around. And worse than that, the Bush administration keeps trotting out spokesmen who keep pushing back that time required to render any verdict on the mini-surge plan.---a plan that Gen. Petreaus only gave a 25% chance of working.

The Iraq war funding is now set to run out September 30 and Petraeus is scheduled to testify before congress during September. Which then compresses any future funding decisions to the month of September. Barely enough time so I expect some GWB theatrics by August or earlier as an attempt to get funding past September nailed down. And this time, it may be very hard to sell a used war to congress.

If only the war was persued with the same agressiveness when it was started as it was now, I believe it would be a much different story.

 

ntdz

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Aug 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: techs
Yes, this thread proves hellokeith hates our troops by trying to convince us that things are going great in Iraq.

When is the OP going to report from Iraq?

As soon as gas prices hit $5.00.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Iraq is a total mess.
Let's pray that we can make progress via the surge and start to get out of there.

100+ deaths a month is too much.
If AQ is hurting enough we can leave and let the Sunnis and Shiites kill each other till the end of the earth.

Of course there are tons of other problems as well, Iran and Saudi getting involved etc etc etc.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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As non-prof John points out---Of course there are tons of other problems as well, Iran and Saudi getting involved etc etc etc.

Turns out that AL-Quida has some other problems in the Israeli and Palestinian area---Al-Quida is backing the Fatah party and Hamas with its Iranian influence looks like they they will send Fatah into the scrap bin of history. Which will further isolate Saudi Arabia at the same time the Turks are massing troops in the Kurdish areas. Iraq is indeed turning out to be a fine stinking kettle of fish. A real damned if you do and damned if you don't. But if major regional countries get involved militarily in any kind of a big way, the whole mid-east could blow sky high.

Could it finally be time for GWB to bring in the international comm unity through diplomacy?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Lemon, the international community is worthless.
When will you learn this?

Please name for me one problem the international community solved on its own without the US or NATO doing all the dirty work.
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Lemon, the international community is worthless.
When will you learn this?

Please name for me one problem the international community solved on its own without the US or NATO doing all the dirty work.


Puffy, please stop. You sound like the Barber Shop owner in "Mississippi Burning." The world ain't a part of American, it's the other way around.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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Originally posted by: tomywishbone
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Lemon, the international community is worthless.
When will you learn this?

Please name for me one problem the international community solved on its own without the US or NATO doing all the dirty work.
Puffy, please stop. You sound like the Barber Shop owner in "Mississippi Burning." The world ain't a part of American, it's the other way around.
Would you care to try and answer the question?