Iraq, like the rest of us, needs liberty.

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Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
Here is one I have just found and never seen before. It tells me why I sleep. What can I say:

Mevlâna Jalâluddîn Rumi


For lovers, the only lecturer is the beauty of the Beloved;
their only book and lecture and lesson is the Face.
They are silent outwardly,
but their penetrating remembrance rises
to the high throne of their Friend.
Their only lesson is enthusiasm, whirling, and trembling,
not the fine points of jurisprudence.
[III, 3847-9]

That which God said to the rose,
and caused it to laugh in full-blown beauty,
He said to my heart,
and made it a hundred times more beautiful.
[III, 4129]

Many have been led astray by the Qur'an:
by clinging to that rope many have fallen into the well.
There is no fault in the rope, O perverse man,
for it was you who had no desire to reach the top.
[III, 4210-11]

Translated by Camille and Kabir Helminski

Well this helps my saddness a bit:

Come, Come again !
Whatever you are...
Whether you are infidel,
idolater or fireworshipper.
Whether you have broken your vows
of repentance a hundred times
This is not the gate of despair,
This is the gate of hope.
Come, come again...

Mevlana Jelaluddin RUMI


Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu,
Buddhist, sufi, or zen. Not any religion

or cultural system. I am not from the East
or the West, not out of the ocean or up

from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not
composed of elements at all. I do not exist,

am not an entity in this world or the next,
did not descend from Adam and Eve or any

origin story. My place is placeless, a trace
of the traceless. Neither body or soul.

I belong to the beloved, have seen the two
worlds as one and that one call to and know,

first, last, outer, inner, only that
breath breathing human being.
Mevlana Jelauddin RUMI

One more:

All through eternity

Beauty unveils His exquisite form

in the solitude of nothingness;

He holds a mirror to His Face

and beholds His own beauty.

he is the knower and the known,

the seer and the seen;

No eye but His own

has ever looked upon this Universe.

His every quality finds an expression:

Eternity becomes the verdant field of Time and Space;

Love, the life-giving garden of this world.

Every branch and leaf and fruit

Reveals an aspect of His perfection-

They cypress give hint of His majesty,

The rose gives tidings of His beauty.

Whenever Beauty looks,

Love is also there;

Whenever beauty shows a rosy cheek

Love lights Her fire from that flame.

When beauty dwells in the dark folds of night

Love comes and finds a heart

entangled in tresses.

Beauty and Love are as body and soul.

Beauty is the mine, Love is the diamond.

They have together

since the beginning of time-

Side by side, step by step.



Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
turned their backs on the Islamic tradition and replaced it with European socialism, leading to the tyrannies that plague the Muslim world today.
yeah, because people in france, germany and britain don't have the right to own property or speak freely.

In any case, Iraqis themselves do not value freedom very much. None except the Kurds were willing to fight (and die) for it.
OT - It seems that in Britain you can be jailed for using racist language.

IIRC in the US and Canada you can be jailed for using certain types of language too. This is nothing new.

Maybe in Canada, I've never heard of anyone being put in jail in the US for that.
It is illegal to use some cuss words in public here in the US, it is considered Harrasment by Verbalization. A policeman told me this. I then shut up. ;) I wasn't jailed or ticketed but dully warned.



Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The reason I asked if in awareness the question could arise is because it seems to me that what you describe are thoughts about awareness past. They arise out of a fragment of awareness commenting on the whole. My real question, I guess, is, is it possible to be totally aware? Is there an awareness in which there is no I and thou? Is there an awareness where a squiggly light is not this or that but something for which one is at cause? The universe is happening according to my will? Is it possible to enter the now, to stop time, to ride upon the flow, to create the universe in the now with Love?

When you read somebody like Rumi, you realize your dealing with somebody who is very excited about things. :D
Oh very much yes... total awareness is the essence of God. The thee and thou exist because we can see, touch, hear... use our senses to insure existence. The Soul and its being are not discernible via any of the senses we currently posses... But, God exists and is here there everywhere at once... time is irrelevant.. In eternity, time does not exist. So before, now, and tomorrow are the same. The Soul and I believe the mind.. the one are thereby on the same plateau as God.. as he said we would be.
In high school I once asked a Jesuit to explain the Universe to me.. He said "it is God's playground" he went on to describe how God created things that obeyed the laws the things themselves operated under. A uniformity of sorts. That God created something meant that each thing operated dependent on the other. I then asked what is beyond the Universe and he said "God"... and this I find reasonable and the only thing I can accept as well..
To directly answer your "love" query.. I think it is for the souls of God's children or the angels to do as you suggest but, I doubt they would thwart the will of God and alter what ever plan he created.. this the fallen angels have done.. and I guess when given the choice they wanted to change the 'game' and it required God's intervention to set things right... the supreme referee... so to speak.. :D



Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
Here is one I have just found and never seen before. It tells me why I sleep. What can I say:

Mevlâna Jalâluddîn Rumi
I liked very much the verse you posted they are uplifting to say the least.

I listened to a preacher once proclaim that only the Christian who accepts Jesus and the Jew who followed the covenant God gave Moses would or could gain entry to heaven..
I wondered why the flower of Islam arrayed in all its glory with nothing but love for God would not also be pleasing to God and be in heaven too.. the same with every other belief that holds God as the one to be worshiped.. A God of Love surely would not forsake the souls of so many who live and breath the name of God. He said " they are deceived by the devil " and " We have missionaries there to spread the word" I argued a bit and finally said " and of the folks who lived and died before your message was delivered? to which he said... "I pray for their souls but, know only what God revealed to me" Since that day I've not gone back ... I deal directly... with Jesus!
It is one of those awareness things... If I confound my thinking with turmoil I will live in turmoil.. I choose to live in peace and harmony... and I do.. :D


Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
I remember reading a book one time that began something like, Oh how the words love beauty and harmony have facinated the human heart. But besides these things you may ask what there is. Besides these things there is nothing. :D


Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
God is dead; accept the fact that man is great and our achievement is not "God's" achievement, but that of ourselves.
Yup! All that you achieve is your's, all your's. You say God is dead... why do you say this?