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Iraq approves U2 overflights, NATO deadlock continues

glenn1

glenn1

Lifer
Iraq agrees to allow spy planes; NATO meeting fails By Allen Wan

Iraq has approved the use of U-2 surveillance planes for weapons inspections and pledged additional cooperation, the country's ambassador to the United Nations said Monday. Separately, an emergency meeting of NATO members failed to break a deadlock on a U.S. request to help Turkey in case of an Iraqi war, diplomats said.
 
A guy on the radio this morning had a good point that if france and germany and everyone would all show support for this baghdad may be all the more likely to truly try and work with these inspections. However, since Saddamn sees weakness in the opposition (namely france, germany, and even Russia or others), they know that they can dick around and giving small bones like this U2 bone, will throw an additional wrench into the plans of the US coalition to find support.
 
Originally posted by: axiom
That NATO thing has me more worried than the Iraq situation. France, Germany and Belgium blocking a NATO ally from getting defense weapons is an outrage. Why would they block the aid from a NATO member nonetheless?
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Because in their minds it might hamper negotiations with Iraq. I believe the opposite.
 
I liked the SNL UN intro the other night. The German rep said:

"Thank you mr. Powell, that is very troubling and conclusive that Iraq has WMD. I think we should do nothing, and do it fast"

Iraq is starting to wake up and smell the coffee I think. Probably too late though...
 
Originally posted by: axiom
That NATO thing has me more worried than the Iraq situation. France, Germany and Belgium blocking a NATO ally from getting defense weapons is an outrage. Why would they block the aid from a NATO member nonetheless?
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Yeah that pisses me off. The UN charade is to be expected when you have so many nations all with opposite goals. NATO is supposed to be more streamlined.

However France's defense minister did say that if it came down to it they would support Turkey, they are just not NOW behind the idea of setting up a defense, so that a war is not encouraged by such an action.

I think France needs to realize how they are seeming now to everyone else - they really live up to that old idea that they would rather dick around than fight. As the guy in last of the mohicans say "The french would rather eat and make love with their faces than fight." Well it's true.
 
Originally posted by: axiom
I'm not sure how the allocation of defense weapons is a negotiating tactic.

Turkey: We're a NATO member. We live next to Iraq. We request Patriot Missles.
NATO: So we are all agreed?
Germany: If we are talking about where we are going to lunch, then yes. If we are talking about sening Patriot missle batteries to Turkey, then no.
France: What Germany said.
Belgium: Thanks for the world cup tick....um, we're with Germany.
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And we should all take our own limos to lunch.

 
You?ve probably heard something about this situation already today. Let me take a shot at explaining it to you.

Turkey has granted permission to the United States and Great Britain to use its territory and military bases to stage attacks on Iraq. There are fears that Hussein will launch some of his Scud missiles against Turkey if this happens. Turkey is a NATO nation. An attack on one NATO nation is judged to be an attack on all NATO nations, and other NATO members are obligated to step in and assist in the defense of the NATO member which is attacked.

In anticipation of an attack on Turkey by Saddam Hussein permission was sought from NATO to begin preparing for Turkey?s defense. And would you care to guess just which nation stepped in and vetoed the request? Well, that would be France ? quickly joined by Germany and Belgium.


BY THE WAY ? DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
? French companies are reported to have $60 billion dollars worth of undisclosed oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. And the anti-war crowd says that it?s BUSH that wants to go to war over oil? France wants to allow a brutal and dangerous dictator to go unchecked ? and it?s all because of oil.
 
So they're formally "permitting" something we do anyway and somehow that eases off some international pressure? Give me a friggin break.
 
Maybe by next month, Iraq make a concession and stop relocating mobile labs,
and allow inspectors to inspect them, and scientists to be interviewed without
death threats........ Nah, just wishful thinking
 
Originally posted by: SlowSS
Maybe by next month, Iraq make a concession and stop relocating mobile labs,
and allow inspectors to inspect them, and scientists to be interviewed without
death threats........ Nah, just wishful thinking
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By next month Saddamn and Milosevic will be fighting over scraps in prison.
 
Originally posted by: Ulfwald
You?ve probably heard something about this situation already today. Let me take a shot at explaining it to you.

Turkey has granted permission to the United States and Great Britain to use its territory and military bases to stage attacks on Iraq. There are fears that Hussein will launch some of his Scud missiles against Turkey if this happens. Turkey is a NATO nation. An attack on one NATO nation is judged to be an attack on all NATO nations, and other NATO members are obligated to step in and assist in the defense of the NATO member which is attacked.

In anticipation of an attack on Turkey by Saddam Hussein permission was sought from NATO to begin preparing for Turkey?s defense. And would you care to guess just which nation stepped in and vetoed the request? Well, that would be France ? quickly joined by Germany and Belgium.


BY THE WAY ? DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
? French companies are reported to have $60 billion dollars worth of undisclosed oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. And the anti-war crowd says that it?s BUSH that wants to go to war over oil? France wants to allow a brutal and dangerous dictator to go unchecked ? and it?s all because of oil.
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WHAT?!?! I thought WE were the only ones fighting this war for OIL!!!!! (removes tongue from cheek)
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: SlowSS
Maybe by next month, Iraq make a concession and stop relocating mobile labs,
and allow inspectors to inspect them, and scientists to be interviewed without
death threats........ Nah, just wishful thinking
Click to expand...
By next month Saddamn and Milosevic will be fighting over scraps in prison.
Click to expand...

I believe Saddam will be dead (either by suicide/troops/rebel/mutiny, etc) before being toss to prison.
 
Originally posted by: rufruf44
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: SlowSS
Maybe by next month, Iraq make a concession and stop relocating mobile labs,
and allow inspectors to inspect them, and scientists to be interviewed without
death threats........ Nah, just wishful thinking
Click to expand...
By next month Saddamn and Milosevic will be fighting over scraps in prison.
Click to expand...

I believe Saddam will be dead (either by suicide/troops/rebel/mutiny, etc) before being toss to prison.
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I don't care if he dies or is in prison. I will feel ripped if he is sent into exile to live his days out in a mansion with butlers.

 
BY THE WAY ? DID YOU KNOW THAT ?
? French companies are reported to have $60 billion dollars worth of undisclosed oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. And the anti-war crowd says that it?s BUSH that wants to go to war over oil? France wants to allow a brutal and dangerous dictator to go unchecked ? and it?s all because of oil.
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that's one of the reasons why i believe, france and russia are against the war right now. they know that the U.S. will attack and that they will most likely nullify any contracts these countries made with the saddam regime. saddam has been handing these oil contracts out left and right, and the u.s. is being shut out of these very lucrative contracts. what better way than to take it by force and set your own rules? 🙂

most likely as soon as the u.s. assures france and russia that their oil contracts will be honored after any attack, you'll see them switch over pretty quickly.
 
The most troubling thing about this is that NATO may die as a result of this. France and Germany refusing to defend a NATO member is tatamount to dissolution of the NATO alliance.
 
It's nice when there are two alliances isn't it? After all, by keeping one sometimes you have to break the other. Oh what a quandry! 😀

By the way, "Iraq also pledged to pass legislation next week outlawing the use of weapons of mass destruction." Source I wonder if they are allowing U2 flights now that they have had enough time to store their WMD in the underground caves the inspectors likely won't ever find?
 
The most troubling thing about this is that NATO may die as a result of this. France and Germany refusing to defend a NATO member is tatamount to dissolution of the NATO alliance.
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I don't know what they are saying in the news in the USA but what you are saying is such a lie.

France, Germany and Belgium all made a statement that if Turkey is attacked, they will do what they have to do as NATO members -- that is defending Turkey.
The fact is that Turkey is not being attacked for the moment -- something a lot of americans do not seem to grasp. The USA just want to use the NATO for it's own POLITICAL motives. This is NOT a military issue. Let's get real, the USA does not need France, Germany and certainly not Belgium to defend Turkey. Whatever the European opinion is on the Iraqi issue, the US will act unilateral, like they did since 9/11.

note: Germany has already agreed to deliver Patriot missiles to Turkey
 
Originally posted by: freegeekss
The most troubling thing about this is that NATO may die as a result of this. France and Germany refusing to defend a NATO member is tatamount to dissolution of the NATO alliance.
Click to expand...

I don't know what they are saying in the news in the USA but what you are saying is such a lie.

France, Germany and Belgium all made a statement that if Turkey is attacked, they will do what they have to do as NATO members -- that is defending Turkey.
The fact is that Turkey is not being attacked for the moment -- something a lot of americans do not seem to grasp. The USA just want to use the NATO for it's own POLITICAL motives. This is NOT a military issue. Let's get real, the USA does not need France, Germany and certainly not Belgium to defend Turkey. Whatever the European opinion is on the Iraqi issue, the US will act unilateral, like they did since 9/11.

note: Germany has already agreed to deliver Patriot missiles to Turkey
Click to expand...
The news is skewing the truth, yes, but don't forget 16 of the 19 NATO countries have not done what france, germany, and belgium are doing.

 
Back on topic, I just heard the ok for U2 overflights is tied to the US suspending overflights in the no flight zones, north and south. That ain't gunna happen!

Back to the drawing board.
 
Originally posted by: wnied
If Germany and France continue on their paths, then NATO is finished.


~wnied~
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Substitute "Bush Administration" for Germany and France, and you'd be closer to the truth.

 
Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Back on topic, I just heard the ok for U2 overflights is tied to the US suspending overflights in the no flight zones, north and south. That ain't gunna happen!

Back to the drawing board.
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A few days ago an Iraqi guy was saying of course U2s are allowed - once the no fly zones are removed. How the hell they can sit there and say "we can't guarantee its safety", when the only threat to it is from Iraqi anti-air is pretty asinine to me.

 
Telling the europeans what their opinion should be is pretty arrogant. But rushing them is worse.

You ever been to a restaurant in europe? then you know what I'm talking about. 😛
 
France always sit by and do nothing. Just look at WW2. They sat by and let Hitler remilitarize with a policy of appeasement. Who stepped in to save their ass? Britian and the US ofcourse.
 
Originally posted by: TNTrulez
France always sit by and do nothing. Just look at WW2. They sat by and let Hitler remilitarize with a policy of appeasement. Who stepped in to save their ass? Britian and the US ofcourse.
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Sorry, the policy of appeasement is historically attributed to Neville Chamberlain.
 
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