Iraq 6-3-07:14 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq

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miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Is this another one of those reports where they estimate it between 300 and 7 million and go with the median?

Ill stick with what most people have determined through news reports and on the ground accounts. About 30-50K.

Even though these people have admit that their survey methods are inadequate, since they don't really survey at all.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Well Bush lied about Saddam and his WMDs which actually led to the war. I don't see why it would be hard for him the lie about the casualties even by such a margin.
HELLO!!!! Bush isn't making statements about the number of dead. At most he is repeating what others are saying in their reports!!

When Bush or another member of the government comes out and says "This many people have died" then let me know.

EDIT: Oh I forgot... Bush did not LIE about WMD here is an example Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying great site to debunk the "he lied" stories you seem to be passing along as fact.

"it depends on what the definition of "is" is." situation huh?
 

catnap1972

Platinum Member
Aug 10, 2000
2,607
0
76
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Pabster

The "real" cowards are those who would sacrifice everything this country stands for, everything we've accomplished, if it meant suiting their political agenda.
so then, you are the coward, eh?

ZING!

 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,258
9,079
136
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Isn't it amazing that this group only seems to release study figure right before US elections. What are they doing in off election years?
Last study by them came out DAYS before the 2004 election. I guess we can call this an October surprise.
SAounds like a good time to release it so the American Public can see how bad Bush and Co have been fopr America and the World in General.

Frankly I think the world would be a better place today if Bushes Mother had aborted him. There'd be a lot more people alive if she had!
Nice... were you one of the people complaining when William Bennett said that if we just aborted all black babies there would be less crime?
Here I'll just post what you said about Bennett's comment:
You have to admit it was a very foolish thing of him to say.
I agree, and what you said is foolish as well.
How would you know what I said about Bennett's comment, you weren't a member here then....or were you???

Busted!

But, but, but, but my first post was in general hardware!!!!!! Call the mods. We all know the search function doesn't work. Bye bye "Prof".
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Pens1566
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I agree, and what you said is foolish as well.
How would you know what I said about Bennett's comment, you weren't a member here then....or were you???

Busted!

But, but, but, but my first post was in general hardware!!!!!! Call the mods. We all know the search function doesn't work. Bye bye "Prof".

:laugh:
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Haha... just saw a story on TV about this. I need to find a link. What a bunch of crap.

The guy interviewed 1850 families. Took their word as gospel and then extrapolated their anecdotal "evidence" and applied it to the entire country. That's how he got the numbers. In a phone interview he said flat out that he rushed to get his findings out before the mid-terms in an effort to influence the elections.

Best I can do for now.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Isn't it amazing that this group only seems to release study figure right before US elections. What are they doing in off election years?
Last study by them came out DAYS before the 2004 election. I guess we can call this an October surprise.
SAounds like a good time to release it so the American Public can see how bad Bush and Co have been fopr America and the World in General.

Frankly I think the world would be a better place today if Bushes Mother had aborted him. There'd be a lot more people alive if she had!
Nice... were you one of the people complaining when William Bennett said that if we just aborted all black babies there would be less crime?
Here I'll just post what you said about Bennett's comment:
You have to admit it was a very foolish thing of him to say.
I agree, and what you said is foolish as well.
How would you know what I said about Bennett's comment, you weren't a member here then....or were you???

Busted!
ummm.... see that little box that says "search" hit "advanced search"
Then type in "bennett" in the box "all of these words"
and "red dawn" under author
select P&N from the scroll list
and "archived messages" under "which messages"

and TADA !!!! nice thread about bennet called "bill bennet quote"
read through the thread and there you are at 9:30am 9-30-05 saying "You have to admit it was a very foolish thing of him to say."

Any questions?

Believe me if I was some banned person returned a certain person on here who highly dislikes me would have found that out and booted me, but since I only found this site in August that will never happen :)

Here is the thread, just searched for it again
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: ayabe
Where's that mod from the other day who wanted evidence?
See post above :)

Nice try guys. Am I that much of a threat to you that you have to constantly try to get me banned?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Pens1566
But, but, but, but my first post was in general hardware!!!!!! Call the mods. We all know the search function doesn't work. Bye bye "Prof".
I just did it again, duh.

Do you really think anyone would remember some comment like that from over a year ago off the top of their head?

Oh look what I just found... could this be Red Dawn's first ever post???
From 6-4-01 at 10:31PM
"Bosnia and Kosovo. Greneda was just to draw attention away from 200+ Marines dieing in Beruit and Panama was just a complete joke(Old Fart Bush Bitch Slapping one of his ex operatives). "
Red Dawn's first ever post???

What now guys?? Anyone going to claim I know every thing Red has ever said over the last 5 years? :)
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Haha... just saw a story on TV about this. I need to find a link. What a bunch of crap.

The guy interviewed 1850 families. Took their word as gospel and then extrapolated their anecdotal "evidence" and applied it to the entire country. That's how he got the numbers. In a phone interview he said flat out that he rushed to get his findings out before the mid-terms in an effort to influence the elections.

Best I can do for now.

So this is your basis that Iraqi's are better off now than under Saddam???
 

wetech

Senior member
Jul 16, 2002
871
6
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Is this another one of those reports where they estimate it between 300 and 7 million and go with the median?

Ill stick with what most people have determined through news reports and on the ground accounts. About 30-50K.

Yes, it's the same people. I just read an article about this and the original study. The original study, released before the '04 elections extrapolated 8,000 to 194,000 deaths (obviously a very exact methodology was used) and they officially reported 100,000 (splitting the diff). One thing I found funny was that the Lancet admitted that most of the clusters they interviewed reported no violent deaths at all, and that, "two thirds of all violent deaths were reported in one cluster in the city of Fallujah."
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
:eek::confused::shocked: With the tight control of journalist access in Iraq, how can we trust a single source for accuracy? Wild ass guess?
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Haha... just saw a story on TV about this. I need to find a link. What a bunch of crap.

The guy interviewed 1850 families. Took their word as gospel and then extrapolated their anecdotal "evidence" and applied it to the entire country. That's how he got the numbers. In a phone interview he said flat out that he rushed to get his findings out before the mid-terms in an effort to influence the elections.

Best I can do for now.

87% of the time they asked for death certificates, and 92% of the time they got it.

This method is/was used to poll the loss of lives after major disasters. Hurricanes, floods, tsunami's, it was used with the big one, yes.
It's reliable, to the limit between 400k and 800k, anything outside that limit is highly improbable.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Isn't it amazing that this group only seems to release study figure right before US elections. What are they doing in off election years?
Last study by them came out DAYS before the 2004 election. I guess we can call this an October surprise.
SAounds like a good time to release it so the American Public can see how bad Bush and Co have been fopr America and the World in General.

Frankly I think the world would be a better place today if Bushes Mother had aborted him. There'd be a lot more people alive if she had!
Nice... were you one of the people complaining when William Bennett said that if we just aborted all black babies there would be less crime?
Here I'll just post what you said about Bennett's comment:
You have to admit it was a very foolish thing of him to say.
I agree, and what you said is foolish as well.
How would you know what I said about Bennett's comment, you weren't a member here then....or were you???

Busted!
ummm.... see that little box that says "search" hit "advanced search"
Then type in "bennett" in the box "all of these words"
and "red dawn" under author
select P&N from the scroll list
and "archived messages" under "which messages"

and TADA !!!! nice thread about bennet called "bill bennet quote"
read through the thread and there you are at 9:30am 9-30-05 saying "You have to admit it was a very foolish thing of him to say."

Any questions?

Believe me if I was some banned person returned a certain person on here who highly dislikes me would have found that out and booted me, but since I only found this site in August that will never happen :)

Here is the thread, just searched for it again
LOL..yeah right:roll:
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
[ ... ]
Frankly I think the world would be a better place today if Bushes Mother had aborted him. There'd be a lot more people alive if she had!
Nice... were you one of the people complaining when William Bennett said that if we just aborted all black babies there would be less crime? ...
Lost in the tangent about ProfChicken's alter-egos is the fact that his comparison above is pretty dumb. Really dumb, in fact. There is all the difference in the world between a stupid, insensitive generalization about aborting an entire race vs. a narrow comment about a specific bad person. It's just another diversion by the prof(essional?).
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Who are the real cowards? I say it's the people who are so chicken as to have to create proxy fights to maintain their safety.
The "real" cowards are those who would sacrifice everything this country stands for, everything we've accomplished, if it meant suiting their political agenda.
so then, you are the coward, eh?
Exactly. I am appalled that these self-proclaimed patriots have been so willing, even eager to abandon America's founding principles in their blind support of the Bush machine. They pose a far greater threat to America than OBL could ever hope to.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
[ ... ]
EDIT: Oh I forgot... Bush did not LIE about WMD here is an example Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying great site to debunk the "he lied" stories you seem to be passing along as fact.
No problem. There are so many BushCo propaganda points, it's sometimes hard to remember them all.

EDIT: Oh, I remember. Bush and his minions DID LIE about Iraq and their alleged WMDs. They lied about the extent of Iraq's WMD capabilities, claiming quantities and capabilities NOT supported by even their cherry-picked intel, and they lied about the certainty of their claims about Iraq's WMD capabilities, e.g., "these are facts, not assertions" and "there is no doubt ..." when, to tell the TRUTH, there was significant doubt and internal debate. Bush intended to deceive America and the world to sell his war. He lied, case closed. It's time to move on to new excuses.

Anyway, that's a topic for another thread, a thread we've already done dozens of times. This thread is about hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women, and children, all dead due to BushCo's lies.

 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
655K deaths since the start of the war? i dont belive it and even if it was true (which would be bad) how many of those deaths were caused by the US, how many were caused by the insurgancts, how many men, women children is included in that number and can they be verified?
 

CellarDoor

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2004
1,574
0
0
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Haha... just saw a story on TV about this. I need to find a link. What a bunch of crap.

The guy interviewed 1850 families. Took their word as gospel and then extrapolated their anecdotal "evidence" and applied it to the entire country. That's how he got the numbers. In a phone interview he said flat out that he rushed to get his findings out before the mid-terms in an effort to influence the elections.

Best I can do for now.

87% of the time they asked for death certificates, and 92% of the time they got it.

This method is/was used to poll the loss of lives after major disasters. Hurricanes, floods, tsunami's, it was used with the big one, yes.
It's reliable, to the limit between 400k and 800k, anything outside that limit is highly improbable.


That's what I read as well. The method used to conduct this survey is a scientifically peer-reviewed accepted method for determining the amount of people who died in a disaster. I believe we also used this method in Rwanda.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CellarDoor
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Haha... just saw a story on TV about this. I need to find a link. What a bunch of crap.

The guy interviewed 1850 families. Took their word as gospel and then extrapolated their anecdotal "evidence" and applied it to the entire country. That's how he got the numbers. In a phone interview he said flat out that he rushed to get his findings out before the mid-terms in an effort to influence the elections.

Best I can do for now.

87% of the time they asked for death certificates, and 92% of the time they got it.

This method is/was used to poll the loss of lives after major disasters. Hurricanes, floods, tsunami's, it was used with the big one, yes.

It's reliable, to the limit between 400k and 800k, anything outside that limit is highly improbable.

That's what I read as well.

The method used to conduct this survey is a scientifically peer-reviewed accepted method for determining the amount of people who died in a disaster.

I believe we also used this method in Rwanda.

Originally posted by: Citrix
655K deaths since the start of the war? i dont belive it and even if it was true (which would be bad) how many of those deaths were caused by the US, how many were caused by the insurgancts, how many men, women children is included in that number and can they be verified?

So you believe the President's number of around 50K with no proof??? :confused:
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
I dont belive anybodys number both numbers are suspect, neither side has any proof.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
655K deaths since the start of the war? i dont belive it and even if it was true (which would be bad) how many of those deaths were caused by the US, how many were caused by the insurgancts, how many men, women children is included in that number and can they be verified?

But the insurgents weren't there before we invaded, so we created the conditions under which people are dying; our responsibility.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Citrix
I dont belive anybodys number both numbers are suspect, neither side has any proof.

Well it's a 2 to 1 margin in the poll above leaning towards the higher number but yet you lean towards the lower number.
Dave this forum is way to the left of most of America, so any poll on it is really worthless.

Unless you were polling for who people thought should be the Democrat Pres nominee in 08.