Iranian President pardons all 15 Sailors

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Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Fern---who asks---What were they accused of and pardoned for? (hint: it's a word in the definition I posted)

Was it for trespass or for Espionage---and does it matter---its still all rooted in Iraq---its all just a little distraction and side show----and your still stuck on playing the blame game. And can't see the forest for the trees.----dead right or dead wrong is still dead.

Hmm....we should have used that argument with abu ghraib...

Was it torture or was it interogation--and doest it matter--its still all rooted in Iraq--its all just a little distraction and side show--and you're still stuck on playing the blame game.

NO COMPARISON. The Iranians used generally accepted forms of interrogation,. The U.S. trains these methods, right now, today. Google SERE training, Rangely, Maine

What we were doing was FAR beyond that stuff.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
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Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Why? I think he's probably pretty accurate. Why else would they give up the farm so easily. They were an embarrassment, IMO.

They didn't actually give up information though did they? They just said what the Iranians told them to say so they could go home, in full knowledge that anyone with half a brain watching it would know it was a load of rubbish. Can't see how that harms Britain.

And on the SERE training thing; only a few of those guys were combat soldiers, the rest are just low ranking sailors who spend most of the day operating a radar system or something. Even if they were all SBS... well, see my earlier post.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: santer
see! ahmadinejad is a nice guy after all!
Indeed, pardoning those troops after they admitted to trespass and intelligence gathering. :thumbsup:

I'm not sure Bush/Blair would have done the same.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: santer
see! ahmadinejad is a nice guy after all!
Indeed, pardoning those troops after they admitted to trespass and intelligence gathering. :thumbsup:

I'm not sure Bush/Blair would have done the same.

Do you actively try to just ignore every fact that you don't agree with or are you this dumb?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
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Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Fern---who asks---What were they accused of and pardoned for? (hint: it's a word in the definition I posted)

Was it for trespass or for Espionage---and does it matter---its still all rooted in Iraq---its all just a little distraction and side show----and your still stuck on playing the blame game. And can't see the forest for the trees.----dead right or dead wrong is still dead.

Hmm....we should have used that argument with abu ghraib...

Was it torture or was it interogation--and doest it matter--its still all rooted in Iraq--its all just a little distraction and side show--and you're still stuck on playing the blame game.

NO COMPARISON. The Iranians used generally accepted forms of interrogation,. The U.S. trains these methods, right now, today. Google SERE training, Rangely, Maine

What we were doing was FAR beyond that stuff.

That was more in response to Lemon Law not wanting to discuss anything that happens as a result of us being in Iraq, saying that we should just discuss the issue of Iraq itself. I wasn't comparing the treatment of the Brits to the our soldiers disgraced us at abu ghraib.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: JD50
Do you actively try to just ignore every fact that you don't agree with
I can't imagine an act more patriotic than that.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: JD50
Do you actively try to just ignore every fact that you don't agree with are you this dumb?
I can't imagine an act more patriotic than that.

Ok, so I guess its the latter, thanks for the confirmation.
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
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Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I just saw the British TV interview again. :D

*All the British Military guys had individual scripts & cue cards.

*Each used numerous dramatic pauses, that would make Christopher Walken proud.

*The giant Union Jack hanging behind them was beautiful. (I guess they couldn't find a nice "Mission Accomplished" banner.

*A few guys were missing, I'm guessing they couldn't remember their lines.

ha. so you take what iran says at face value, but not what the british gov't does? the anarchy is delicious!
 

BigJelly

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2002
1,717
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
The Brits really need some SERE training. They were pretty much an embarrassment.

WTF? What would you suggest they did? Fire on heavily armed ships with assault rifles and all certainly die? Or order the frigate to fire it's missiles and all certainly die?

try google/wikipedia once in a while

SERE is how you conduct yourself AFTER being captured. How to resist interigation and survive as a POW or in this case a hostage.
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,401
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Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I just saw the British TV interview again. :D

*All the British Military guys had individual scripts & cue cards.

*Each used numerous dramatic pauses, that would make Christopher Walken proud.

*The giant Union Jack hanging behind them was beautiful. (I guess they couldn't find a nice "Mission Accomplished" banner.

*A few guys were missing, I'm guessing they couldn't remember their lines.

ha. so you take what iran says at face value, but not what the british gov't does? the anarchy is delicious!


Absolutely not. I'm just making fun of GB for doing exactly what they criticized Iran for doing.

 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
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Who cares who was in whose water.

The point is, the Iranian captured 15 British troops right under the nose of the British frigate.

Then the Iranian got the prisoners to "admit" that they where in Iranian water and to apologise profusely to the Iranian people on state TV.

Then Amadinejab or whatever his name is released the British soldiers as a gift to the British people.

In sumary:

The British got humiliated at every stage of the operation.

The Iranian scored a major propaganda coup in making themselves look courageous, skilled, tuff and benevolent all at the same time.

The British are in shock.

The Arab world is in haw.

And what are the British doing now: They suspended boarding operations and are reviewing the rules of engagement and procedures.

I wonder how soon we are going to see heads roll in the British admiralty.




 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Why? I think he's probably pretty accurate. Why else would they give up the farm so easily. They were an embarrassment, IMO.

They didn't actually give up information though did they? They just said what the Iranians told them to say so they could go home, in full knowledge that anyone with half a brain watching it would know it was a load of rubbish. Can't see how that harms Britain.

And on the SERE training thing; only a few of those guys were combat soldiers, the rest are just low ranking sailors who spend most of the day operating a radar system or something. Even if they were all SBS... well, see my earlier post.

They did not need to comply that easily. That's the whole point. You don't start singing like a fricken canary after simply being exposed to standard, non physical psych interrogation treatment. Hell, the U.S. water boards and forces smoke in people's lungs to prepare them for possible capture by unfriendly forces. You should be able to take a bit of beating before giving them all they want.
And if Britain is going to have people exposed to this possibility, which they obviously did, they should provide them with the training whether or not they are "low level".
And they looked absolutely professional whilst smiling happily and looking over their "gifts".




Originally posted by: BigJelly
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
The Brits really need some SERE training. They were pretty much an embarrassment.

WTF? What would you suggest they did? Fire on heavily armed ships with assault rifles and all certainly die? Or order the frigate to fire it's missiles and all certainly die?

try google/wikipedia once in a while

SERE is how you conduct yourself AFTER being captured. How to resist interigation and survive as a POW or in this case a hostage.

Thank you. Exactly.

I wasn't suggesting they fight when confronted, though that is probably debatable as well.
They spoke about the Iranians having superior fire power. OK. WTF is that?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Number1
Who cares who was in whose water.

The point is, the Iranian captured 15 British troops right under the nose of the British frigate.

Then the Iranian got the prisoners to "admit" that they where in Iranian water and to apologise profusely to the Iranian people on state TV.

Then Amadinejab or whatever his name is released the British soldiers as a gift to the British people.

In sumary:

The British got humiliated at every stage of the operation.

The Iranian scored a major propaganda coup in making themselves look courageous, skilled, tuff and benevolent all at the same time.

The British are in shock.

The Arab world is in haw.

And what are the British doing now: They suspended boarding operations and are reviewing the rules of engagement and procedures.

I wonder how soon we are going to see heads roll in the British admiralty.
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:
That movie rocks! :thumbsup:
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

You are clearly someone unfamiliar with SERE tactics.
Smartass comments aside, they f'cked up.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

You are clearly someone unfamiliar with SERE tactics.
Smartass comments aside, they f'cked up.

Do we even know if British military receive SERE-esque training? For all we know, they did exactly what they were trained to do. Apologizing isn't exactly the same as giving up troop positions or plans and jeopardizing more life. Are there stories saying that theycompromised anything concrete by apologizing and getting the hell out of there?

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

While he's at it he rescue all the MIA's from Vietnam. :(
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
0
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

You are clearly someone unfamiliar with SERE tactics.
Smartass comments aside, they f'cked up.

Do we even know if British military receive SERE-esque training? For all we know, they did exactly what they were trained to do. Apologizing isn't exactly the same as giving up troop positions or plans and jeopardizing more life. Are there stories saying that theycompromised anything concrete by apologizing and getting the hell out of there?

I'd say it's clear they do not. My point is, the Iranians employed standard tactics, and the Brits sang like the 3 tenors. I am mainly trying to correct those who think what the Iranians did (black hoods, small cells, isolation, etc) is anything but standard stuff and is in fact considered quite soft core stuff when it comes to interrogation methods.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

You are clearly someone unfamiliar with SERE tactics.
Smartass comments aside, they f'cked up.

Do we even know if British military receive SERE-esque training? For all we know, they did exactly what they were trained to do. Apologizing isn't exactly the same as giving up troop positions or plans and jeopardizing more life. Are there stories saying that theycompromised anything concrete by apologizing and getting the hell out of there?

I'd say it's clear they do not. My point is, the Iranians employed standard tactics, and the Brits sang like the 3 tenors. I am mainly trying to correct those who think what the Iranians did (black hoods, small cells, isolation, etc) is anything but standard stuff and is in fact considered quite soft core stuff when it comes to interrogation methods.

Well fvcking sign up, cowboy! Make the Brit government tell you all their top military secrets, go get captured and you show 'em how to keep their mouths shut.

:laugh:
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Well fvcking sign up, cowboy! Make the Brit government tell you all their top military secrets, go get captured and you show 'em how to keep their mouths shut.

:laugh:
Those sailors are the laughing stock of the military community right now. No self-respecting soldier would call what they did heroic.
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,401
0
0
"I'd say it's clear they do not. My point is, the Iranians employed standard tactics, and the Brits sang like the 3 tenors..."

:D


Ah yes, they sang like song birds. Remind me again what they said...

Newsflash! Great Britian & Iran ain't at war. The British dudes gave up nothing.

Maybe you would have prefered they swallowed cyanide?

You idiots.
 
Aug 1, 2006
1,308
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Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?

Let me guess, if it were you, you would have asked to speak to Murdock, then griped the mic tightly for dramatic effect, told him you were coming for him, beat your captors, electrocuted the Russian strong man with his own torture device, then commandeered a helicopter and fought your way out with the rescued hostages?

You get 'em Rambo! :laugh:

You are clearly someone unfamiliar with SERE tactics.
Smartass comments aside, they f'cked up.

Do we even know if British military receive SERE-esque training? For all we know, they did exactly what they were trained to do. Apologizing isn't exactly the same as giving up troop positions or plans and jeopardizing more life. Are there stories saying that theycompromised anything concrete by apologizing and getting the hell out of there?

I'd say it's clear they do not. My point is, the Iranians employed standard tactics, and the Brits sang like the 3 tenors. I am mainly trying to correct those who think what the Iranians did (black hoods, small cells, isolation, etc) is anything but standard stuff and is in fact considered quite soft core stuff when it comes to interrogation methods.

Well fvcking sign up, cowboy! Make the Brit government tell you all their top military secrets, go get captured and you show 'em how to keep their mouths shut.

:laugh:

Already served. I worked SERE one of my hitches. I could show them how to keep their mouths shut.
Is something funny, btw? I'm not seeing it, frankly.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Agreed, and those detained sailors look like idiots to boot.

Their confessions were supposedly "coerced", but there isn't a single mark on them. Sounds like they are just trying to save face for the British government (and doing a poor job at it).

Apparently blindfolds and threats of prison time are enough for them to give up the fleet to our enemies.

What happened to name, rank and serial number?
So "leaving marks" is now the gold standard when it comes to mistreatment of prisoners?

I like that standard because Water Board doesn't leave any marks, which means we can water board everyone we catch right?
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: tomywishbone
"I'd say it's clear they do not. My point is, the Iranians employed standard tactics, and the Brits sang like the 3 tenors..."

:D


Ah yes, they sang like song birds. Remind me again what they said...

Newsflash! Great Britian & Iran ain't at war. The British dudes gave up nothing.

Maybe you would have prefered they swallowed cyanide?

You idiots.

1. When your are abducted and held hostage by unfriendly forces, it should be pretty plain you're not there for a slumber party.
Oh I don't know, maybe at least not crumbling instantly upon being merely isolated from one another (for all of a couple of days total) and perhaps not gazing with joy and wonder at their gifts might have presented a more professional image.
Just my opinion, mind you. No need to get all worked up into a lather.