Iranian President pardons all 15 Sailors

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I for one never believed the Brits confessing had any validity---which still does not answer the question of if they were in Iraqi waters, Iranian waters, or disputed waters. Or if they were knowingly engaged in any sort of espionage against Iran.

Nor did I ever say I had much faith in Ahmadinejhad as a teller of truth or that Iran had an unassailable position and was totally in the right. But I did note the British hostages were mere pawn being cynically used.

And I now note some poster goes so far as to accuse Ahmadinejhad as being a mental midget or words to that effect.

Which hardly moves GWB or Tony Blair any up or down on the IQ scale.---or the gross stupidity scale.

But when you want to talk pure stupidity----where did GWB & BLAIR come up with the inspired stupidity
to create the present mess in Iraq------while Ahmadinejhad had the brains to stay at home and mind his own business. And now GWB&Blair blame him for all our woes in Iraq?

But we had our side show moment of high drama and distraction---shows over folks move along---we still have a big problem in Iraq----I had hoped this crisis would have some positive developments----but Blair dashed that with his recent statements.
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
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THis Charade... followed by forcing admission under duress... there's some proof of a SANE and LEGITIMATE administration!!!!!
 

Al Neri

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2002
5,680
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Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Number1
The true story is starting to come out.

BBC Article

Of course the sailors where coerced into making confessions.

I would not expect less from the Iranians, the same people that beat a Canadian jounalist to death last year for taking picture of an Iranian jail.

And yes, Amadinejab IS a midget.

I think they were just scared. Not to say I wouldn't have done the same thing.

Ever been arrested? I haven't, but if it is anything like Law and Order they pretty much say it like this:

"Confess now and you can go home and everything will be fine. You can go back home hug your wife and kids. It was all just a misunderstanding. It was self defense."

I don't know if that is actually how they get confessions but if it is then that sounds like a F'd up B.S way to get someone to talk.

HAHAHAHA

you are stretching VERY far there :)

It's funny when someone has nothing else to say to see what they say!
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
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I love it. The British complain about the Iranian's using the Soldiers & Sailors for propaganda, and now the British are doing the exact same thing. :D Comedy central.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I love it. The British complain about the Iranian's using the Soldiers & Sailors for propaganda, and now the British are doing the exact same thing. :D Comedy central.
The British are just trying to save face in this whole ordeal. The new statements from the sailors are probably as cooked as the previous ones.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I love it. The British complain about the Iranian's using the Soldiers & Sailors for propaganda, and now the British are doing the exact same thing. :D Comedy central.

:D
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I love it. The British complain about the Iranian's using the Soldiers & Sailors for propaganda, and now the British are doing the exact same thing. :D Comedy central.
The British are just trying to save face in this whole ordeal. The new statements from the sailors are probably as cooked as the previous ones.


Huh? You took the previous statements at face value and used them to claim that they were in Iranian waters........
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
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I just saw the British TV interview again. :D

*All the British Military guys had individual scripts & cue cards.

*Each used numerous dramatic pauses, that would make Christopher Walken proud.

*The giant Union Jack hanging behind them was beautiful. (I guess they couldn't find a nice "Mission Accomplished" banner.

*A few guys were missing, I'm guessing they couldn't remember their lines.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
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Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I just saw the British TV interview again. :D

*All the British Military guys had individual scripts & cue cards.

*Each used numerous dramatic pauses, that would make Christopher Walken proud.

*The giant Union Jack hanging behind them was beautiful. (I guess they couldn't find a nice "Mission Accomplished" banner.

*A few guys were missing, I'm guessing they couldn't remember their lines.
Indeed, it's a travesty the British public is watching their government reduced to this level. :laugh:
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I love it. The British complain about the Iranian's using the Soldiers & Sailors for propaganda, and now the British are doing the exact same thing. :D Comedy central.
The British are just trying to save face in this whole ordeal. The new statements from the sailors are probably as cooked as the previous ones.


Huh? You took the previous statements at face value and used them to claim that they were in Iranian waters........


....
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
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Originally posted by: Trianon
Originally posted by: JD50

gathering intelligence is not the same thing as espionage.....

wow, I'll have some of whatever you're having...

ESPIONAGE as defined in English Language COMPRENDE?

What's all this double standard/ double talk stuff?

Who else wants to say that gathering intellegence about activities of foreign government is not espionage? I need a good laugh:D


The definition you've posted is so broad as to include almost any activity as espionage. Here's a far beter definition, and one can clearly see that asking local fishermen what they may know is not espionage. Nor do spies wear a uniform (at least not that of their own country).

Espionage or spying is a practice of obtaining information about an organization or a society that is considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information. Unlike other forms of intelligence work, espionage involves accessing the place where the desired information is stored, or accessing the people who know the information and will divulge it through some kind of subterfuge.

Fern
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Well I am certainly thrilled to get an education on the still debatable meaning of the word Espionage.

Now can someone tell me what that clarifies, has to do with the topic at hand, and the giant mess we have in Iraq?

Flash news update---rascals on all sides are pulling all kinds of unsavory activities in Iraq. And have been for at least four long years---whats new?

Instead of playing the blame and self justification game.

Lets play the net effect game.

In the beginning there was Saddam--our former buddy---and we discovered he was a thug.

So Blair and GWB bring forth the cure---which turns out to be far worse than the now cured disease--so we hung him long after the cure went long past total screwup.

And now we poke and prod Iran into joining the general merriment so we can have even more people to cast blame at.

At this rate we will soon get other regional powers to come in---and make the situation even worse---and we can find ever more parties to hate and cast blame at.

Maybe we can bring anarchy and civil war to the entire mid-east---or the entire world.

Well folks---we have a heck of a good start. And just more of the blame game is going to solve this?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well I am certainly thrilled to get an education on the still debatable meaning of the word Espionage.

Now can someone tell me what that clarifies, has to do with the topic at hand, and the giant mess we have in Iraq?

Flash news update---rascals on all sides are pulling all kinds of unsavory activities in Iraq. And have been for at least four long years---whats new?

See thread title boy wiz:

Iranian President pardons all 15 Sailors

What were they accused of and pardoned for? (hint: it's a word in the definition I posted)

Oh, speaking of getting off-topic -this is thread about Iran, why do you keep mentioning Iraq. We've got plently of Iraq threads elswhere.

Fern
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,458
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According the British Sailors they were in Iraqi waters.

Iran is lucky I am not Prime Minister...I would have sent the RAF in and asked the Americans for Help.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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To Fern---who asks---What were they accused of and pardoned for? (hint: it's a word in the definition I posted)

Was it for trespass or for Espionage---and does it matter---its still all rooted in Iraq---its all just a little distraction and side show----and your still stuck on playing the blame game. And can't see the forest for the trees.----dead right or dead wrong is still dead.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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To GoPackGo---who sez---Iran is lucky I am not Prime Minister...I would have sent the RAF in and asked the Americans for Help.

Lucky for the world and for the hostages that you are not the prime minister. If you think only the Iranians would suffer from that---you need a reality check.---but maybe Iran and the allies will keep pushing this squabble---and then we can actually find out what could have happened.

I would have rather thought our present mess in Iraq would give some of you some bring it on types a good case of bring it on avoidance syndrome.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Fern---who asks---What were they accused of and pardoned for? (hint: it's a word in the definition I posted)

Was it for trespass or for Espionage---and does it matter---its still all rooted in Iraq---its all just a little distraction and side show----and your still stuck on playing the blame game. And can't see the forest for the trees.----dead right or dead wrong is still dead.

Hmm....we should have used that argument with abu ghraib...

Was it torture or was it interogation--and doest it matter--its still all rooted in Iraq--its all just a little distraction and side show--and you're still stuck on playing the blame game.

 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,458
527
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
To GoPackGo---who sez---Iran is lucky I am not Prime Minister...I would have sent the RAF in and asked the Americans for Help.

Lucky for the world and for the hostages that you are not the prime minister. If you think only the Iranians would suffer from that---you need a reality check.---but maybe Iran and the allies will keep pushing this squabble---and then we can actually find out what could have happened.

I would have rather thought our present mess in Iraq would give some of you some bring it on types a good case of bring it on avoidance syndrome.

Dude...this is my life, and I am world leader pretend.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
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Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
The Brits really need some SERE training. They were pretty much an embarrassment.

WTF? What would you suggest they did? Fire on heavily armed ships with assault rifles and all certainly die? Or order the frigate to fire it's missiles and all certainly die?
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: JD50
WTF is with you people? Embassies around the world are used for gathering intelligence as well, I guess its ok with you if we kidnap all of the diplomats from their embassies too. I guess we can go kidnap anyone from any country that uses satelites that take pictures of the US too.
There's nothing wrong with gathering intelligence. But when you mix that with violating another nations border, you run the risk of getting detained.


So, you said that the Brits admitting to being in Iranian waters was proof that they were in Iranian waters. The people here with common sense argued that they were coerced and that you should not take their "confessions" as truth. You asked for proof of that, well here ya go...

"If we admitted we had strayed, we would be on a plane back to the UK soon. If we didn't we faced up to seven years in prison".

The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.


You were so eager to believe their confessions while they were being held captive, I wonder if you will believe what they have to say now.....

Dude, that is standard psych interrogation method. The trouble is, they didn't have to "admit" they strayed. We had guys in Hanoi for 5 years who didn't give up as much as the Brits.
I don't know what to believe.
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Number1
The true story is starting to come out.

BBC Article

Of course the sailors where coerced into making confessions.

I would not expect less from the Iranians, the same people that beat a Canadian jounalist to death last year for taking picture of an Iranian jail.

And yes, Amadinejab IS a midget.

I think they were just scared. Not to say I wouldn't have done the same thing.

Ever been arrested? I haven't, but if it is anything like Law and Order they pretty much say it like this:

"Confess now and you can go home and everything will be fine. You can go back home hug your wife and kids. It was all just a misunderstanding. It was self defense."

I don't know if that is actually how they get confessions but if it is then that sounds like a F'd up B.S way to get someone to talk.

They need SERE training. Even low level American troops get it, though I'm not sure we're done much better in recent similar incidents.
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Number1
The true story is starting to come out.

BBC Article

Of course the sailors where coerced into making confessions.

I would not expect less from the Iranians, the same people that beat a Canadian jounalist to death last year for taking picture of an Iranian jail.

And yes, Amadinejab IS a midget.

I think they were just scared. Not to say I wouldn't have done the same thing.

Ever been arrested? I haven't, but if it is anything like Law and Order they pretty much say it like this:

"Confess now and you can go home and everything will be fine. You can go back home hug your wife and kids. It was all just a misunderstanding. It was self defense."

I don't know if that is actually how they get confessions but if it is then that sounds like a F'd up B.S way to get someone to talk.

HAHAHAHA

you are stretching VERY far there :)

It's funny when someone has nothing else to say to see what they say!

Why? I think he's probably pretty accurate. Why else would they give up the farm so easily. They were an embarrassment, IMO.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
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Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
You have no proof that they are not developing nuclear weapons and you are dancing around that fact.
That's an impossible standard to prove. We asked Saddam to do the same (prove he didn't have WMDs) and ended up spending $350 billion/3,200 lives to play in sand.

Any more bright ideas?

He violated sanctions and made it VERY difficult for UN weapons inspectors to conduct their business.

When it walks like a duck, looks like a duck...

i'm not sure if you noticed this yet or not, but it WASN'T a duck.