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Iran Nuclear Bomb Could Be Possible by 2009
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The US has done the same thing as well, but to an even larger extent. So should the US be considered a terrorist nation as well?
If Iran ever develops a nuke, they wouldn't dare use it. You really think they would sell it or give it to a terrorist group to use on the US? Look at what happened to Afghanistan when 2 buildings collapsed. If a nuke was ever released in the US, you can be sure that another nation will be wiped off the planet, or the very least, the toppling of another government.
Iran is not the government that is invading sovereign nations, no matter how bad they are. They're not the ones that have been sharing nuclear secrets.
If it wasn't for Israel being in the ME so that the arabs could channel all their hatred towards them, they would probably be like Africa with tribal wars and genocides.
exdeath
Lifer
The difference between us and them, or being civilized or barbaric... is that when the time of crisis and need for violence passes, we the civilized will lay down our weapons and return to our homes and families and live in peace. In Iraq for example, we don't desire to kill each and every person there, or we would have unconditionally nuked the place already. No, all that needs to happen is for the suicide bombs to stop, then we can come home. Whether or not we agree on everything or whether they hate us or not doesn't matter, as long as the mindless killing and bloodshed stops.
Those of certain other cultures however (ie: Islam for example) cherish and relish bloodshed and death in the name of religion and will not stop until everyone is dead, and then some. Even if the tangible immediate threat to them ceases, they will continue pushing forward with hate and violence, looking for any excuse to point fingers and blow something up.
Case in point, Israel tried to appease the Palestinians (wtf is a Palestinian anyway, there is no such location as Palestine) by giving back some of the land they lost and wanted back and with no caveats. What did the Palestinians do? They just moved back into that land, and continued firing rockets and blowing shitup.
Violence is a necessary and integral part of life. What separates the civilized from the barbaric is knowing the proper time and place for it and striving to live without violence if at all possible under normal circumstances.
I think people are starting to realize that one of those groups is Islam. Some governments around the world are starting to take notice, that wherever there is untamed violence in the world, in Europe, in Africa, or in the Middle East, Islam is always close by.
Those of certain other cultures however (ie: Islam for example) cherish and relish bloodshed and death in the name of religion and will not stop until everyone is dead, and then some. Even if the tangible immediate threat to them ceases, they will continue pushing forward with hate and violence, looking for any excuse to point fingers and blow something up.
Case in point, Israel tried to appease the Palestinians (wtf is a Palestinian anyway, there is no such location as Palestine) by giving back some of the land they lost and wanted back and with no caveats. What did the Palestinians do? They just moved back into that land, and continued firing rockets and blowing shitup.
Violence is a necessary and integral part of life. What separates the civilized from the barbaric is knowing the proper time and place for it and striving to live without violence if at all possible under normal circumstances.
I think people are starting to realize that one of those groups is Islam. Some governments around the world are starting to take notice, that wherever there is untamed violence in the world, in Europe, in Africa, or in the Middle East, Islam is always close by.
U.S armed Iraq with chemical weapons to kills tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of Iranians.
Iraq invaded Iran. It was an illegal war.
They were acting in a terrorist manner.
U.S gave Iraq the means to annihilate the Persians.
& not to mention.. the U.S is now hiring terrorists and protecting terrorists who are against Iran. Those very terrorist blow themselves up and kill innocent Iranians.
So how the hell is Iran different from the U.S. It is the U.S who has done more harm to Iran than Iran has ever done to the U.S or Israel.
Imagine if Iran played the rules like the U.S. Hezbollah armed with chemical weapons.. just fraking crazy
You're absolutely right, which is why Iran (in its recent history) has not attacked another country without being attacked first. Why would they suddenly change their operating conditions?
The only reason Iran is going to attack anyone in the near future is if we (the US/UK/Israel) bomb them first.
exdeath
Lifer
Let?s hope it stays that way.
So lets ignore an Islamic mad man who is building nuclear weapons and promoting the destruction of non Islamic countries. I've got no problem with that, talk is cheap.
But when and if they DO actually wipe Israel off the map (yeah good luck with that), we have every reason to return the favor 10x over and nobody will have room to complain about it. If there is anything left after Israels counter attack that is.
Agreed on all except one point; there exists not one shred of proof that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. But you're right, if they are actually suicidal enough to commit a nuclear first-strike (I don't see why anyone in power would commit political suicide like that, but for the sake of argument) then they should be met with like force.
exdeath
Lifer
I don't know how just a peaceful nuclear power plant can cause American and Israeli cities to go up in infernos as it has been said in Iran... I also fail to see why nuclear power is required so badly in a third world country with minimal energy demands compared to the rest of the world, even though they are sitting on a sea of free oil...
Physical proof or not, there is clear intent and desire being expressed in every possible way by a mad man. And as I said before, if someone has a gun and says they are going to shoot me, I'm going to kill him right then and there. I don't care if we find out his gun was empty *after* the fact, or that it was just a squirt gun painted black. He shouldn't have made the threat.
People in positions of power need to learn to be held accountable for what they spout out of their mouths... (Yes that includes Bush as well; I owe allegiance to no political party, only my country and the Constitution)
If we're using your analogy, then Iran has yet to invent the gun or the bullet, let alone aim it at their enemy. Nuclear energy and nuclear weapons aren't interchangeable; you can't make the leap from one to the other in a few steps. There has to be years worth of planning and development on the weapons side alone to produce a weapon, and as of today there is zero evidence that any weapons program exists. There has to be credible evidence of a threat; the burden of proof is on us. We can't continue to cry wolf and expect the world to take us seriously after Iraq.
And second, we have no right to dictate what a nation does with its wealth. If they want to become modern and utilize nuclear energy, we cannot tell them otherwise. There is a reason nobody is using that argument in the media; they would be laughed at for being so narrow-minded.
exdeath
Lifer
No actually, it's 10 times easier to make a crude nuclear weapon than a sustained power reactor and supporting infrastructure.
And I agree that a country can spend it's wealth as it sees fit, I was simply suggesting, albeit indirectly, their claim of needing nuclear power all of the sudden, at the same time they are emboldened politically, is fishy at best.
Time will tell.
I'd rather Iran actually be telling the truth and just intimidating us for the fun of it and all they build are reactors. I'd rather us look paranoid for nothing than Iran using nuclear weapons and us not be able to do anything about it because our hands are tied by the whining left.
Can't blame me for being cynical and skeptical whenever a influential supporter of Islam is pursuing nuclear technology given recent history of Islamic violence and threats of violence across the world. People make it sound like the USA is the world bully, but we aren't the ones burning cars in France, raping and pillaging Africa, bombing subways in Spain, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Tell me what USA interests in Africa the muslims are fighting against when they take over the native governments and threaten to behead anyone who doesn't adopt the newly introduced Islamic laws?
Iraq - 27 years ago - went to war with Iran, not us.
We allegedly (not sure if it's been factually proven, but I wouldn't doubt it) helped Iraq with chemical weapons what, 20-27 years ago?
This seems to me sort of a long time ago...I mean, we did business with the Japanese, Germans, and Italians 20 years after WWII, a war that killed many many more people than the 80-88 Iraq/Iran war. I'm fairly sure if we can get over WWII, the Iranians - especially because they are so peace loving as you point out - would get over that war.
You keep saying, The US, The US. The US did not start a war with Iran, Iraq did that. Why they did I haven't even gone back to check, but it really would not surprise me if they had a good reason for it. Regardless, quit blaming us for what Iraq did, next you'll be telling me it's our fault millions of Mexicans violate our borders and that's because of us, we're guilty. :roll:
As far as us hiring terrorists, I don't get that? Are you talking about the folks on the Pakistan and Iran borders? We didn't hire them, the money's coming from other countries in the area and EU. We're trading info with them...sometimes you have to deal with criminals (those folks) to catch criminals (aQ), it sucks, but that's the way it is. Think police informant...unfortunately we're the police, the UN is AWOL like usual...
Chuck
Even a small atomic bomb will be much deadlier than chemical weapons. If they made a crude, small atomic bomb like we made in WW2, it's still capable of killing tens of thousands of people in a densely populated city. Chemical weapons are deadly, but they tend to disperse quickly and don't cover nearly as large of an area as a nuke.
Iraq started an illegal terrorist war against Iran.
Kind of how the U.S claims Hezbollah started illegal B.S against Israel.
I see no difference. In fact I see Iraq > Hezbollah in their actions.
You obviously failed to read the article that clearly said the U.S is protecting and even supporting terrorists against Iran.
U.S is protecting MEK. MEK took U.S hostages inside Iran during the revolution
Iran is not as advanced as the U.S in the nuclear department. Their nuclear bomb will turn up just like North Korea. How big of a yield do you think Iran's nuclear bomb will be?
Israel is small in size. If they filled every Hezbollah rocket with chemical weapons, hundreds of thousands of people would die..
I don't think that anyone should be too worried. The U.S. and Israel will never let Iran have nuclear weapons. If the U.S. or Israel actually believed that Iran was close to producing them then one or both (U.S. or Israel) would take out their production capabilities by either a tactical air strike or covert ground ops. I would suspect that Israel would strike first before the U.S. would based on the fact that Israel can play the 'we need to protect ourselves' card. I would be shocked if the US and Israel didn't already have covert sabotage ops going on right now.
You seem to think it's hard making a bomb of decently high yield with a simple (gun-type) nuclear device. It's not. If you have the materials, you can make a fairly large bomb. For a country that's trying to obtain a bomb, getting the materials is the hard part.
The very first nuclear device ever made (Trinity test) had a yield of 20kt. Little boy was around 12 kt. Fat man was about 20 kt.
Making a gun-type bomb is simple by nuke standards. In our case, we didn't even test it, because we already knew that it would work due to the simplicity. The only one we bothered to test back then, Trinity, was the more difficult implosion type that we'd later use for the Fat Man bomb.
Making a huge hydrogen bomb or small, light nukes that will fit in artillery shells are much harder to make, but if you just want to make a statement to the world and show that you're able to make a fission-type bomb, that bomb can be as crude and cumbersome as you need to make it.
I think they do have a nuclear weapons program. They're first going to make power plants so they can generate waste. The waste is what's valuable to a nuclear weapons program.
I'm not a Bush fan and never bought the "WMD story". I don't expect Iran to start pumping out nukes left and right. But you'd have to be an idiot to believe that the country with the world's 2nd largest reserves of petroleum suddenly feels the need to develop nuclear power.
Actually there are compelling reasons for Iran to develop nuclear power. Among them the fact that they can make much more money by selling oil and gas via their state run companies. Just look at the economic windfall Russia is receiving. Much of Iran's oil and gas is used for domestic purposes in their energy inefficient, growing economy. Also there are some pollution problems in the country most notably in Tehran (similar topography to LA). On the weapon issue; after witnessing Bush cavalierly screw up a neighboring country on a whim, I don't blame them for wanting nuclear deterrence. From the Iranian POV it is very rational.
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