Iran hands IAEA nuclear blueprints

[Alistar7]

VIENNA, Austria - Iran has met a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium ? a process that can generate both power or create the fissile core of nuclear warheads. Both the IAEA and other experts have categorized the instructions outlined in the blueprints as having no value outside of a nuclear weapons program.

Senior IAEA officials were refused interviews with at least two top Iranian nuclear officials suspected of possible involvement in a weapons program, they said. One was the leader of a physics laboratory at Lavizan, outside Tehran, which was razed before the agency had a chance to investigate activities there. The other was in charge of developing Iran's centrifuges, used to enrich uranium.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._on_re_eu/nuclear_iran

Reminds me of the games Saddam tried to play, that didn't work so well for him lol.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
VIENNA, Austria - Iran has met a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium ? a process that can generate both power or create the fissile core of nuclear warheads. Both the IAEA and other experts have categorized the instructions outlined in the blueprints as having no value outside of a nuclear weapons program.

Senior IAEA officials were refused interviews with at least two top Iranian nuclear officials suspected of possible involvement in a weapons program, they said. One was the leader of a physics laboratory at Lavizan, outside Tehran, which was razed before the agency had a chance to investigate activities there. The other was in charge of developing Iran's centrifuges, used to enrich uranium.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._on_re_eu/nuclear_iran

Reminds me of the games Saddam tried to play, that didn't work so well for him lol.

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

 

[Fern]

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium

I find that extremely hard to believe. That seems like something you'd have to pay big bucks for. Not just some "freebie" that comes along with "some equipment".

And who sold them the black market stuff?

Black market stuff of that nature generally requires some serious effort to find. Who in Iran headed up that search effort and what was their purpose?

Hmm... Soiunds ominous to me, and under cuts any claims that they want nukes only for electricity. That there's no weapon efforts etc.

Fern

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Alistar7
VIENNA, Austria - Iran has met a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium ? a process that can generate both power or create the fissile core of nuclear warheads. Both the IAEA and other experts have categorized the instructions outlined in the blueprints as having no value outside of a nuclear weapons program.

Senior IAEA officials were refused interviews with at least two top Iranian nuclear officials suspected of possible involvement in a weapons program, they said. One was the leader of a physics laboratory at Lavizan, outside Tehran, which was razed before the agency had a chance to investigate activities there. The other was in charge of developing Iran's centrifuges, used to enrich uranium.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._on_re_eu/nuclear_iran

Reminds me of the games Saddam tried to play, that didn't work so well for him lol.

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

I think ALL of Iraq is better off without Saddam, just not the smll minority accustomed to holding power through the brutal oppression of the majority. I know it is common practice to "forget" one of the reasons Bush used to sell this war to the US public was the freedom of 27 million Iraqis, I haven't. Want to see the future of Iraq, look north to the Kurdish regions where they were given a good 10 year head start. They are doing quite well, I expect the rest of Iraq to follow their example.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Alistar7
VIENNA, Austria - Iran has met a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium ? a process that can generate both power or create the fissile core of nuclear warheads. Both the IAEA and other experts have categorized the instructions outlined in the blueprints as having no value outside of a nuclear weapons program.

Senior IAEA officials were refused interviews with at least two top Iranian nuclear officials suspected of possible involvement in a weapons program, they said. One was the leader of a physics laboratory at Lavizan, outside Tehran, which was razed before the agency had a chance to investigate activities there. The other was in charge of developing Iran's centrifuges, used to enrich uranium.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._on_re_eu/nuclear_iran

Reminds me of the games Saddam tried to play, that didn't work so well for him lol.

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

I think ALL of Iraq is better off without Saddam, just not the smll minority accustomed to holding power through the brutal oppression of the majority. I know it is common practice to "forget" one of the reasons Bush used to sell this war to the US public was the freedom of 27 million Iraqis, I haven't. Want to see the future of Iraq, look north to the Kurdish regions where they were given a good 10 year head start. They are doing quite well, I expect the rest of Iraq to follow their example.

You tend to forget that they Kurds weren't slaughtering each other left and right when Hussien was prevented from lording over them.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Alistar7
VIENNA, Austria - Iran has met a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium ? a process that can generate both power or create the fissile core of nuclear warheads. Both the IAEA and other experts have categorized the instructions outlined in the blueprints as having no value outside of a nuclear weapons program.

Senior IAEA officials were refused interviews with at least two top Iranian nuclear officials suspected of possible involvement in a weapons program, they said. One was the leader of a physics laboratory at Lavizan, outside Tehran, which was razed before the agency had a chance to investigate activities there. The other was in charge of developing Iran's centrifuges, used to enrich uranium.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._on_re_eu/nuclear_iran

Reminds me of the games Saddam tried to play, that didn't work so well for him lol.

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

I think ALL of Iraq is better off without Saddam, just not the smll minority accustomed to holding power through the brutal oppression of the majority. I know it is common practice to "forget" one of the reasons Bush used to sell this war to the US public was the freedom of 27 million Iraqis, I haven't. Want to see the future of Iraq, look north to the Kurdish regions where they were given a good 10 year head start. They are doing quite well, I expect the rest of Iraq to follow their example.

You tend to forget that they Kurds weren't slaughtering each other left and right when Hussien was prevented from lording over them.

You tend to forget both Shia and Sunni are emigrating to the Kurdish regions for the security and economic opportunity. Why is there no fighting between the groups in that region?

You think that after 30 years of oppression there will not be revenge taken? A lot of the fighting between Sunni/Shia has been masterminded by insurgents anyways. They do not want a stable, democratic, prosperous, secular Iraq. That is why they attack Iraqi citizens and infrastructure more than our troops. It will not be easy, it will not be fast, but it will happen in due time.

Your opinion on the documents the Iranians finally provided?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

[/quote]

You beat me on that response, but I guess it was an easy one.

Fern market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago

Doesn't much matter if the tooth fairy gave it to them that long ago.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Alistar7
VIENNA, Austria - Iran has met a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium ? a process that can generate both power or create the fissile core of nuclear warheads. Both the IAEA and other experts have categorized the instructions outlined in the blueprints as having no value outside of a nuclear weapons program.

Senior IAEA officials were refused interviews with at least two top Iranian nuclear officials suspected of possible involvement in a weapons program, they said. One was the leader of a physics laboratory at Lavizan, outside Tehran, which was razed before the agency had a chance to investigate activities there. The other was in charge of developing Iran's centrifuges, used to enrich uranium.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._on_re_eu/nuclear_iran

Reminds me of the games Saddam tried to play, that didn't work so well for him lol.

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

I think ALL of Iraq is better off without Saddam, just not the smll minority accustomed to holding power through the brutal oppression of the majority. I know it is common practice to "forget" one of the reasons Bush used to sell this war to the US public was the freedom of 27 million Iraqis, I haven't. Want to see the future of Iraq, look north to the Kurdish regions where they were given a good 10 year head start. They are doing quite well, I expect the rest of Iraq to follow their example.

You tend to forget that they Kurds weren't slaughtering each other left and right when Hussien was prevented from lording over them.

You tend to forget both Shia and Sunni are emigrating to the Kurdish regions for the security and economic opportunity. Why is there no fighting between the groups in that region?

I'm not aware of a large migration to the Kurdish region by the Shia and the Sunnis but for arguments sake I'll take your word on it. Maybe there's no mass killings and retributions because thjey are living under Kurdish rule

You think that after 30 years of oppression there will not be revenge taken? A lot of the fighting between Sunni/Shia has been masterminded by insurgents anyways. They do not want a stable, democratic, prosperous, secular Iraq. That is why they attack Iraqi citizens and infrastructure more than our troops. It will not be easy, it will not be fast, but it will happen in due time.

The Majority Shia don't want a Secular state, they'd prefer something like Iran with the Sharia as the law of the land

Your opinion on the documents the Iranians finally provided?

Who knows, there's been so much bullshit form either side it's hard to definately know what the fuck is really going on.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

And as it turned out, it didn't work too well for us either.

You beat me on that response, but I guess it was an easy one.

Fern market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago

Doesn't much matter if the tooth fairy gave it to them that long ago. [/quote]



Yes, off topic and biased, expected nothing less. It worked out well for the majority of people of Iraq. Of course it will not be a cake walk for us, but that was never the point.

There is no proof the paperwork is decades old, that is only the Iranian explanation. Of course you believe them, hysterical. If they had no use for it why not hand it over when it was discovered 2 years ago? Why block attempts to interview key people in their nuclear programs? You probably think that fire that razed the facility of interest was accidental.

 

[Alistar7]

RedDawn - I'm not aware of a large migration to the Kurdish region by the Shia and the Sunnis but for arguments sake I'll take your word on it. Maybe there's no mass killings and retributions because thjey are living under Kurdish rule

Not a mass migration, but it is happening. There is still some friction between the 3 groups but very raarely does it spill into sectarian violence. I think the biggest reason is those that make the journey are looking to escape the violence, not contribute. If they were up for that game they would have stayed in their own area.

RedDawn - The Majority Shia don't want a Secular state, they'd prefer something like Iran with the Sharia as the law of the land

I sincerely hope you are mistaken. For all of Saddam's faults Iraq was a secular nation and I get the impression they would prefer to maintain that type of society. I don't think the majority if Iranians are happy with their society and would also prefer secular rule.

RedDawn - Who knows, there's been so much bullshit form either side it's hard to definately know what the fuck is really going on.

Agreed, not interested in the spin from Iran or the US. These documents however are not the product of either, and they are troubling.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Iran maintains it was given the papers without asking for them during its black market purchases of nuclear equipment decades ago that now serve as the backbone of its program to enrich uranium

I find that extremely hard to believe. That seems like something you'd have to pay big bucks for. Not just some "freebie" that comes along with "some equipment".

And who sold them the black market stuff?

Black market stuff of that nature generally requires some serious effort to find. Who in Iran headed up that search effort and what was their purpose?

Hmm... Soiunds ominous to me, and under cuts any claims that they want nukes only for electricity. That there's no weapon efforts etc.

Fern

You could be right that they did ask for it certainly, but I don't think its anywhere as certain as you might think. They definitely recieved most or all of their nuclear knowhow/etc from AQ Kahn of Pakistan. He has come out and said that he wants to give away nuclear technology to anti western and muslim nations in general. So... he is very ideologically inclined to include material that might not have been specifically sought out... and so yes, possibly as a 'freebie' in addition to other things they actually paid for.

 

[StageLeft]

I know it is common practice to "forget" one of the reasons Bush used to sell this war to the US public was the freedom of 27 million Iraqis, I haven't

Speaking of forgetting...

April 04

Ari Fleischer, press secretary for U.S. President George W. Bush weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about

Does that jog your memory a little?

There is no proof the paperwork is decades old, that is only the Iranian explanation. Of course you believe them, hysterical. If they had no use for it why not hand it over when it was discovered 2 years ago? Why block attempts to interview key people in their nuclear programs? You probably think that fire that razed the facility of interest was accidental.

I have said for a long time that Iran is probably building/working on a nuke. I sure as hell would if I were in their shoes, wouldn't you? I can't blame them a bit.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I know it is common practice to "forget" one of the reasons Bush used to sell this war to the US public was the freedom of 27 million Iraqis, I haven't

Speaking of forgetting...

April 04

Ari Fleischer, press secretary for U.S. President George W. Bush weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about

Does that jog your memory a little?

There is no proof the paperwork is decades old, that is only the Iranian explanation. Of course you believe them, hysterical. If they had no use for it why not hand it over when it was discovered 2 years ago? Why block attempts to interview key people in their nuclear programs? You probably think that fire that razed the facility of interest was accidental.

I have said for a long time that Iran is probably building/working on a nuke. I sure as hell would if I were in their shoes, wouldn't you? I can't blame them a bit.

Yes, I remember Saddams noncompliance in regards to his WMD. I remember the world wide consensus that he still maintained some stockpiles and certainly the knowledge and production capability. I remember Hans Blix stating there is still over 20,000 liters of Anthrax unnaccounted for to this day. I remember the stated reason of AQ being present in Iraq, which they were. I could care less about a direct working relationship between Saddam and AQ. I for one would not trust Saddam with the security of those weapons/knowledge with that element present in his country.

I also remember that one of the reasons was to free 27 million Iraqis from brutal oppression. That selling line was prominent in both of Bush's televised appeals to the citizens of the US over this matter. I think that drew more support for the cause than anything. I don't think it was a sincere concern for Bush, but it was a great selling point and worthwhile to most Americans.

Would another administrtion have taken the same course of action, I don't think they would. I understand Bush/Cheney have ulterior motives, but I still feel it was the right decision to remove Saddam.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Yes, I remember Saddams noncompliance in regards to his WMD. I remember the world wide consensus that he still maintained some stockpiles and certainly the knowledge and production capability. I remember Hans Blix stating there is still over 20,000 liters of Anthrax unnaccounted for to this day. I remember the stated reason of AQ being present in Iraq, which they were. I could care less about a direct working relationship between Saddam and AQ. I for one would not trust Saddam with the security of those weapons/knowledge with that element present in his country.

I also remember that one of the reasons was to free 27 million Iraqis from brutal oppression. That selling line was prominent in both of Bush's televised appeals to the citizens of the US over this matter. I think that drew more support for the cause than anything. I don't think it was a sincere concern for Bush, but it was a great selling point and worthwhile to most Americans.

Would another administrtion have taken the same course of action, I don't think they would. I understand Bush/Cheney have ulterior motives, but I still feel it was the right decision to remove Saddam.

Hrmm, I remember Hans Blix coming out before the invasion saying that our WMD case against Iraq was extremely shaky and that we were dramatizing events in order to justify our war. I also remember the head of the IAEA getting in a pissing match with Dick Cheney because the head of the IAEA said that Iraq had no nuclear weapons programs of any note.

I appreciate your realistic view of the motivations of people involved, but the worldwide consensus idea is fiction. Frequently people in the US believe that everyone thought as we did, but there were large numbers of people in numerous organizations spanning the globe that told us we were wrong, and we ignored them.

I also believe that the idea of freeing people from oppression as a motivating force for America to get behind the invasion is admirable, but naive. There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who live under brutal oppression and we do nothing. There isn't even enough political will in the US to stop a ghastly and ongoing genocide in Darfur... which sadly enough is much worse then what was going on in Iraq when we invaded. It was the spectre of imminent death by nuclear bombs, biological weapons, and clouds of poisonous chemicals that whipped people here up into a war frenzy. Fear, fear, and more fear.

 

[StageLeft]

Well, worldwide consensus or not on whether he had WMD (and it wasn't a complete consensus), much of the world was opposed to the war (even Canada didn't send troops), and obviously for good reason; they were right.

also believe that the idea of freeing people from oppression as a motivating force for America to get behind the invasion is admirable, but naive. There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who live under brutal oppression and we do nothing.

Many are under it and much easier to free than a country like Iraq. It appeals to the hearts of Americans, but I don't think it was a reason at all why the US gov went in there.

It was the spectre of imminent death by nuclear bombs, biological weapons, and clouds of poisonous chemicals that whipped people here up into a war frenzy.

Absolutel it was. weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about They weren't there. The intel was bad and a war was started over it.

 

[Pabster]

Nothing but lies, and another smokescreen. Buy some more time.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Nothing but lies, and another smokescreen. Buy some more time.

I didn't know we were talkng about your last thread.

 

[techs]

a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads

Is anyone else worried that a U.N. agency now has the plans to the bomb?

 

[Alistar7]

Yes, ignore the "saintly" motivations behind those who objected. They were the ones who used their seat of "authority" to protect Saddam while they also violating sanctions and profited at the expense of most of the Iraqi population.

There was consensus that he had never fully complied, still maintained the knowledge and production ability, and most likely still maintained WMD. Even the big 3 objectors on the council (shocker, also the ones who profited the most from sanctions) agreed to those points.

With the benefit of hindsight we know Saddam, with the belief he was protected by the council, very much wanted the nations around him to believe he still had WMD. He never felt he was going to be removed from power.

Support among the populace was never based on fear IMO. Do any Americans on this board truly live in fear of being the victim of terrorist attack?

I agree there is little will in the US, or worldwide, to take action where others are being oppressed. Shame on us all as far as I am concerned.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: techs
a key demand of the U.N. nuclear agency, handing over long-sought blueprints showing how to mold uranium metal into the shape of warheads

Is anyone else worried that a U.N. agency now has the plans to the bomb?

No, not really. The hard part of a nuclear bomb is the enriched uranium... that's what's so tough to get, and that's what holds back most of the world's nuclear programs.

 

[Lemon law]

You can get basic plans for building a bomb over the internet. Really sophisticated designs might be slightly harder. But basic plans are easy.

Nor is Uranium that hard to get. As others have pointed out, the hard part of is always in separating the U235 from the U238.

 

[Jhhnn]

There was consensus that he had never fully complied, still maintained the knowledge and production ability, and most likely still maintained WMD.

Heh. Maintained the knowledge and production ability? Please. Any society capable of created basic agricultural chemicals can make chemical weapons- the methodology is ~100 years old, dating from WW1...

Hadn't fully complied? When was that? Obviously not when Blix' team was working in Iraq... He claimed their compliance was entirely satisfactory just weeks before the invasion...

 

[novasatori]

Free warhead blueprints w/nuclear equipment purchases?

This belongs in hot deals!

 

[Thump553]

Odds are they could have downloaded these things off the internet for free as well. I remember some teen in Wisconsin getting in trouble back in the eighties (pre-internet) for compiling nucleaur weapon plans solely from declassified US government documents.

Back on point, I wonder where these plans came from? Pakistan or North Korea? I'm betting it was Pakistan.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: techs
Is anyone else worried that a U.N. agency now has the plans to the bomb?

Frightening, isn't it. I'm sure Baradei has them under lock and key.