Iran: Destroy Israel and other Middle East news

[Jhhnn]

Well good luck with that, at the moment, other than Lebanon and Syria which are sponsored by Iran, every single country in the ME strongly opposes a nuclear Iran - and I wouldn't be surprised if they actively cooperated with Israel in an attempt to prevent that.



I'm sure resisting the Nazis was against the US self interests, too, given all the lives, money and equipment it took. It would have been much easier to cut a deal with Hitler and keep on doing what you do, a thing which I have not the slightest of doubts you'd have strongly supported.

Likewise I suggest handing Taiwan over to the Chinese.

Overlooking the inherent lack of capability to distinguish "good" from "bad" you've so obviously demonstrated, consider the fact that without US backing, Israel would have long ago attacked Iran to stop this nuclear program. Diplomacy really takes a back seat when an assembly of extreme Muslims posses WMDs. Now, would THAT serve US interests?

You're sooo lame. Israel is too far away and too small a country to effectively deny the Iranians nukes, if they seek to acquire them. Attacking their facilities would absolutely guarantee that they'll create nukes.

And be sure to drag out the nazis, invoke the holocaust guilt trip, OK? Throw in a few other rightwing touchstones, like Taiwan while you're at it, do the usual false equivalency dance... Rave on about the evil Iranians, even as Israel keeps that relentless slow motion steamroller of middle eastern Liebensraum rolling over the Palestinians...

Poor Israel! Their grandparents were oppressed and murdered, so now they get to do anything they want! Well, just so long as they can make a show of "wanting" peace, even as they do everything possible to avoid making any reasonable compromise to achieve it...

Don't look at us, at what we're doing, look at the evil Iranians, or Hamas, or anybody but us! Nazis! Holocaust! Jew-haters! Baby killers and murderers!

It's wearing thin, and you know it, so you'll redouble your efforts to keep us convinced that you're oh so right and righteous, get that good old kneejerk reaction of guilt ridden acquiescence, of us going along with whatever you do, even though we know it's often monstrously wrong.

 

[SamurAchzar]

You're sooo lame. Israel is too far away and too small a country to effectively deny the Iranians nukes, if they seek to acquire them. Attacking their facilities would absolutely guarantee that they'll create nukes.

Too small? Too far? Eh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Sudan_airstrikes

Israel had a pretty significant window to strike Iran and stop, or massive delay, their nuclear program. It didn't do that, and the only reason coming to mind is US intervention on the matter. I'm pretty confident that decision was accompanied by a solid guarantee from US that there will be no nuclear bomb in Iran.

And be sure to drag out the nazis, invoke the holocaust guilt trip, OK?

So WWII is a Jewish affair now? Even a revisionist with a very limited account of history should know the Holocaust had very little, if anything at all, to do with US decision to go to war. The Jewish Holocaust played a very small part in WWII.

Throw in a few other rightwing touchstones, like Taiwan while you're at it, do the usual false equivalency dance...

You probably just didn't understand the allegory of selling out an ally in return for favors from an evil regime.

Rave on about the evil Iranians, even as Israel keeps that relentless slow motion steamroller of middle eastern Liebensraum rolling over the Palestinians...

What does Iran has to do with the Palestinians? If Iran is allowed to attack Israel because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, then surely your marginal logic provides a justification for Muslims to attack the US for all it does. Do you support that?

Meanwhile, Iran has been conducting an elaborate and violent proxy war against Israel for years, and they don't even try to cover it up lately.

Poor Israel! Their grandparents were oppressed and murdered, so now they get to do anything they want!

How can an Israeli leader stand up and look to his subordinates in the eye and say that he allowed Iran to acquire WMD, thus putting the Jews in a danger of a second holocaust? I'm not saying it's essentially different for Iranian leaders, they might have very good reasons to acquire this bomb, domestic or foreign; however Israel can and should use force to stop this. Yes, both sides have very good reasons, and when two opposing sides have very good reasons for something, they sometime clash.

Well, just so long as they can make a show of "wanting" peace, even as they do everything possible to avoid making any reasonable compromise to achieve it...

Who are you to determine, from the comfort of your home 8000 miles away, what's a reasonable compromise for Israel? Israelis and their children are the those who will need to live with the consequences of that "reasonable compromise", and if Israel becomes a Muslim state as the Palestinian right of return implies, they will have a very bleak future.

Don't look at us, at what we're doing, look at the evil Iranians, or Hamas, or anybody but us! Nazis! Holocaust! Jew-haters! Baby killers and murderers!

Nice trick, but I never said the Iranian regime hates Jews, and generally I'm one to never pull out the antisemitism card. I'd prefer to say they don't like Non-Muslims, or Muslims that stand in their way, that would be more accurate. The Jews don't rank very highly, obviously.

It's wearing thin, and you know it, so you'll redouble your efforts to keep us convinced that you're oh so right and righteous, get that good old kneejerk reaction of guilt ridden acquiescence, of us going along with whatever you do, even though we know it's often monstrously wrong.

Who's "us"? Unlike with the Palestinians, you can't even say you're defending the Iranian people. Nope, you're a lone town fool, shouting up for an assembly of deranged Mullahs and their regional domination plans.

But you know what? I don't think you're that stupid. I don't think you actually *like* the Iranian regime, unless you are one of the well poisoning, self-hating minorities. Instead, I think that the main reason you stand up for the Iranian regime is that you like them better than you like Israel. But as I said, I'm not one to pull out the antisemitism card.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You're sooo lame. Israel is too far away and too small a country to effectively deny the Iranians nukes, if they seek to acquire them. Attacking their facilities would absolutely guarantee that they'll create nukes.
Like attacking the Iraq & Syrian facilites guarenteed the creation of nukes.
Both countries were trying and were foiled. They were unable to recover.
If a country is exposed to have violated their agreements, it becomes much more difficult for them to start back up such a program. And any denials are skeptical.

And be sure to drag out the nazis, invoke the holocaust guilt trip, OK? Throw in a few other rightwing touchstones, like Taiwan while you're at it, do the usual false equivalency dance... Rave on about the evil Iranians, even as Israel keeps that relentless slow motion steamroller of middle eastern Liebensraum rolling over the Palestinians...

Poor Israel! Their grandparents were oppressed and murdered, so now they get to do anything they want! Well, just so long as they can make a show of "wanting" peace, even as they do everything possible to avoid making any reasonable compromise to achieve it...
The Palestinian grandparents were also involved the the attempt to exterminate the Israelis. Should they be granted carte blanche also?

Don't look at us, at what we're doing, look at the evil Iranians, or Hamas, or anybody but us! Nazis! Holocaust! Jew-haters! Baby killers and murderers!

It's wearing thin, and you know it, so you'll redouble your efforts to keep us convinced that you're oh so right and righteous, get that good old kneejerk reaction of guilt ridden acquiescence, of us going along with whatever you do, even though we know it's often monstrously wrong.

The Jews may not be hold the high moral ground, but the alestinians and the enemies of Israel hold even less.

 

[Noobtastic]

Don't look at us, at what we're doing, look at the evil Iranians, or Hamas, or anybody but us! Nazis! Holocaust! Jew-haters! Baby killers and murderers!

Yeah, Muslim Brotherhood was originally funded by Nazis and Muslims dream of killing Jewish babies.

Mufti of Jerusalem was with Hitler during the white papers, and drew up plans to set up a concentration camp in Nablus had the Nazis won the war.

Regardless, there is about 4 mega-ownage replies to your pallywood drivel that you have yet to respond to. Need a link?

 

[piasabird]

Hezbolah and Iran are the same thing. They are the same entity. If Hezbolah attacks Isreal, I doubt the USA will do anything to help the lebanese who have come out openly and declared that they will support Hezbolah. The USA in the past has stated that if a country supports or harbors terrorists that they should be considered a terrorist state. Lebanon and Iran are both Terrorist States.

 

[Jhhnn]

Neither Syria nor Iraq have the resources of the Iranians, nor are they as far removed geographically. The Iranians can toss out the IAEA, rebuild their facilities in Cheyenne mountain- like facilities well beyond the reach of the IAF. And, quite frankly, any Israeli attack on Iran would have to cross what is American controlled airspace, which extends from the Turkish border with Georgia, down the entire persian gulf and well out past the cape of Oman. Our complicity would be *obvious*. If you think we're having trouble extricating ourselves from Afghanistan and Iraq now, wtf do you think would happen if we and our Israeli "friends" give the Iranians cause to actively support insurgencies against us in those places? As it is, they've been remarkably restrained, particularly wrt the Taliban. Want that to end?

As for the Palestinians being "worser" than the Israelis, I'll simply point out that the Israelis have the upper hand, and have for a very long time. They talk when the US insists, mostly about the weather, and just keep doing what they've been doing all along- dispossessing the Pals, blasting their infrastructure flat when they can sell their so-called justifications here in the US, killing the Palestinian leadership, then claiming there's "nobody to negotiate with". Wash, rinse, repeat, squeezing the Pals ever tighter in the process.

What the Israelis have, more than anything else, is a guilt trip that America has imposed on herself wrt the holocaust, and really good propaganda. SamurAchzar is an excellent example of that, constantly shifting the focus of discussion towards something favoring Israel. He says he doesn't play the anti-semite card, right after he brings up the Nazis... equating my position with capitulating to them in WW2.

Figure it out, guys- you're being manipulated at a completely emotional level. Repeating lies and half-truths often enough makes them "the truth" in the minds of many people, particularly if they go unchallenged. It's how the Neocons manipulated us into the invasion of Iraq, and how the Israelis shame us and manipulate us into supporting them unconditionally.

They'll never make peace with the Pals so long as they've got that, and anybody with half a brain should be able to recognize it.

IHateViruses? He's a hack, a wannabee. The real pros, the guys like SamurAchzar, would do well to get him to STFU- he's entirely too transparent and too clueless as to what's really going on to be more than an impediment to their efforts.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Neither Syria nor Iraq have the resources of the Iranians, nor are they as far removed geographically. The Iranians can toss out the IAEA, rebuild their facilities in Cheyenne mountain- like facilities well beyond the reach of the IAF. And, quite frankly, any Israeli attack on Iran would have to cross what is American controlled airspace, which extends from the Turkish border with Georgia, down the entire persian gulf and well out past the cape of Oman. Our complicity would be *obvious*. If you think we're having trouble extricating ourselves from Afghanistan and Iraq now, wtf do you think would happen if we and our Israeli "friends" give the Iranians cause to actively support insurgencies against us in those places? As it is, they've been remarkably restrained, particularly wrt the Taliban. Want that to end?

Your "remarkably restrained" Farsi friends have repeatedly trained and armed Iraqi insurgents. Their intelligence service lurks all over the north of Iraq. Israel, OTOH, did nothing to make America's life in the region any tougher, not with Iran and not when it was targeted by Iraqi missiles back in 1991.

What the Israelis have, more than anything else, is a guilt trip that America has imposed on herself wrt the holocaust, and really good propaganda. SamurAchzar is an excellent example of that, constantly shifting the focus of discussion towards something favoring Israel. He says he doesn't play the anti-semite card, right after he brings up the Nazis... equating my position with capitulating to them in WW2.

What's between US war on the Nazis and antisemitism? Did I miss something and US went out to war for the Jews? Was that a Jewish conspiracy as well, like 9/11?

Figure it out, guys- you're being manipulated at a completely emotional level. Repeating lies and half-truths often enough makes them "the truth" in the minds of many people, particularly if they go unchallenged. It's how the Neocons manipulated us into the invasion of Iraq, and how the Israelis shame us and manipulate us into supporting them unconditionally.

Well you know, it might be difficult to justify Israel when it comes to the Palestinians (it's not, but let's go on with the rhetoric here). Defending Israel in the face of Supreme Leader Khaminai and his P&N supporters, is a vastly easier task.
No one (well, nearly) supports his actions or his race to a nuclear bomb, the only question on the table is "what to do about it". Most common people would be very happy for Israel to put an end to it and never hear of it again (like Israel did with Iraq), unfortunately today it's not this simple.

They'll never make peace with the Pals so long as they've got that, and anybody with half a brain should be able to recognize it

Unless that is a justification for Iranians to build a nuclear bomb, I don't see what's the relevance of this fact to our discussion.

 

[Noobtastic]

IHateViruses? He's a hack, a wannabee. The real pros, the guys like SamurAchzar, would do well to get him to STFU- he's entirely too transparent and too clueless as to what's really going on to be more than an impediment to their efforts.

Ahhh...whine, moan, bitch.

Feel free to respond to my posts, I know you can't.

 

[JJ44]

GDP, mossad, MI6, CIA unanimously agree iran's nuclear program is for purposes other than peaceful.

Just as they agree that the nuclear program of the US, Russia, Shina, Pakistan, India, and Israel is for purposes other than peaceful!

 

[JJ44]

Yeah, Muslim Brotherhood was originally funded by Nazis and Muslims dream of killing Jewish babies.

WTF are you talking about! The Moslem Brotherhood was founded in the 1920's and none of its orignal documents had anything to do with Jews. They were opposed to western created and placed monarchies, especially those who the British and French placed on thrones of recently independent countries following the fall of the Ottoman Empire e Post World war One. They were angry that both the Wilsonian positions apparently stopped at the Middle East, and that the French and British had secret deals to shut down any self determination and place hack quislings in power.

Now onto your comments about the guy who was Mufti of Jerusalem during the war. he was appointed by the BRITISH in the 1930's specifically because of his hard core anti-Zionist positions. That is why the Brish loved him and picked him first. He then got a better offer from the Nazis.

 

[Jhhnn]

Remarkable that you'd admit my statement wrt Israeli "peace efforts" as fact, Samur. I won't forget.

As for the rest of it, your efforts at being deliberately obtuse wrt the Nazis and the american guilt trip about the holocaust are transparent, and noted.

American concerns about Iranian nuclear efforts have everything to do with Israel- it's the basis for this thread, after all. Those efforts pose no direct threat to the US, even if they are weapons oriented, which has not been shown to be true. When and if the Iranians fail to declare the existence of nuclear facilities 6 months in advance of the introduction of nuclear material, as the NPT demands, or if they refuse access to the IAEA, then the usual aspersions may have justification.

Israel exists under her own nuclear shield, and under ours as well. Nobody else in the region can counter that threat. Which why she can attack her neighbors with virtual impunity, and will continue to do so, given her expansionist aims. The notion that the Iranian mullahs are any less rational than the most rabid Israeli clergy is laughable. Their propaganda just isn't aimed at the US, as the Israeli propaganda clearly is, because they can't manipulate us with the same sort of guilt we feel wrt the holocaust. Not that such guilt is truly justified, but that's how we feel, anyway, which makes us easy to manipulate, and easy to shout down any criticism as coming from anti-semites. Nobody in the US wants to be tarred with that brush, making it all that much easier.

Yeh, I know you'll attempt to counter the truth of Israeli expansionism with the fact that they gave back the Sinai. The only reason that piece of ground has any value at all is that it's the eastern side of the Suez canal, which is so valuable to the Egyptians that they sold out the Pals, their former Syrian allies and everybody else to get it back...

 

[SamurAchzar]

Remarkable that you'd admit my statement wrt Israeli "peace efforts" as fact, Samur. I won't forget.

I have no doubt the government of Nethanyhu is under no pressure to move forward with the Palestinians. And why would it? Previous government have been trying that for 15 years, and look where it got them.

As for the rest of it, your efforts at being deliberately obtuse wrt the Nazis and the american guilt trip about the holocaust are transparent, and noted.

Well I'm just not sure. You see, you stated

The sad truth is that we often support Israel in ways contrary to our own interests

The idea behind my comparison was to point out, ironically, that if you lived back then, you'd probably be all up in arms for US going to a war the Nazis against its immediate interests.

American concerns about Iranian nuclear efforts have everything to do with Israel- it's the basis for this thread, after all. Those efforts pose no direct threat to the US, even if they are weapons oriented, which has not been shown to be true.

You're not very up to date with ME politics. Israel is not the only concerned party about Iranian WMDs, put on that list the countries of the Gulf, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. The last thing US wants is the Iranians controlling the ME or worse, driving everyone into an arms race. Israel can look after itself (like it did, so far).
Other than that, Iran is just as much of a threat as a nuclear N.Korea, and puts Europe in direct possibility of a nuclear attack.

Israel exists under her own nuclear shield, and under ours as well. Nobody else in the region can counter that threat. Which why she can attack her neighbors with virtual impunity, and will continue to do so,

Going by your logic, Israel should have seen no Arab hostility since the early 60's, when it acquired nuclear technologies. Hmm.

given her expansionist aims.

Israel today holds exactly what it did in 1967. Oh sorry, Gaza has been given to the Palestinians.
If Israel is set to expand, it's not very good at it.

The notion that the Iranian mullahs are any less rational than the most rabid Israeli clergy is laughable.

Oh they are very rational, the Iranians. It's just that they use THEIR logic, and not the universal liberal logic.

Their propaganda just isn't aimed at the US, as the Israeli propaganda clearly is, because they can't manipulate us with the same sort of guilt we feel wrt the holocaust. Not that such guilt is truly justified, but that's how we feel, anyway, which makes us easy to manipulate, and easy to shout down any criticism as coming from anti-semites. Nobody in the US wants to be tarred with that brush, making it all that much easier.

I understand the German guilt of the holocaust, but it's the first time I hear of American guilt towards that subject.

Yeh, I know you'll attempt to counter the truth of Israeli expansionism with the fact that they gave back the Sinai. The only reason that piece of ground has any value at all is that it's the eastern side of the Suez canal, which is so valuable to the Egyptians that they sold out the Pals, their former Syrian allies and everybody else to get it back...

So you're saying that Egypt should not have made peace with Israel? That's a fresh take, coming from a liberal.

 

[Noobtastic]

WTF are you talking about! The Moslem Brotherhood was founded in the 1920's and none of its orignal documents had anything to do with Jews.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/muslimbrotherhood.html

original founders of the muslim brotherhood were "devout admirers" of adolf hitler.

http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11146

anti-jewish bigotry was a major part of arab nationalism, and the muslim brotherhood was no different. but of course, the biggest enemies were simply other muslims.