IPv6: It's not backwards compatible, developers admit.

[VinDSL]

I don't know about you guys, but I've always disabled IPv6 in browsers, and so forth...

I guess 'we' already knew IPv6 wasn't compatible with IPv4, but it's nice to finally have some confirmation:

http://www.networkworld.com/ne...pv6-mistake.html?t51hb (Network World Article)

"The lack of real backwards compatibility for IPv4 was the single critical failure," says Leslie Daigle, Chief Internet Technology Officer for the Internet Society. "There were reasons at the time for doing that?But the reality is that nobody wants to go to IPv6 unless they think they?re friends are doing it, too."

Interesting read!

 

[Aluvus]

I don't think you understood the headline of the article you linked. The people quoted in the article didn't "admit" that IPv6 was not backward compatible. That was a widely known, deliberately made choice from the very early days of the project. They "admitted" that deliberately making it not backward-compatible was a mistake.

 

[VinDSL]

True!

That's why I disable IPv6... and will continue to do so.

So where do they go from here - the committee?

I don't plan to use IPv6 any time soon - how about you?!?!?

All IPv6 does is make your browser, et cetera, slower.

Most ppl are too stupid to even realize what 'we' are talking about...

 

[frostedflakes]

People will switch over to IPv6 when they need to. Not making it backward compatible will make the transition rougher than it would have otherwise been, but it will still happen sooner than later. IPv4 saturation is quickly approaching.

 

[vailr]

Are IPv6 wired home routers going to be available?
Some wireless home routers include IPv6 support,
but what about (inexpensive) wired-only SOHO routers?

 

[VinDSL]

If you want to check your hardware for IPv6 support, e.g. your IPv6 connection:

http://ipv6.google.com/ (Google over IPv6 website)

 

[n0cmonkey]

I wish consumer ISPs would start offering ipv6 support. Every modern OS has fully supported IPv6 for a long long time. Except Redmond based OSes.

EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

 

[Nothinman]

EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

It adds some latency when it tries to do an AAAA lookup and/or connect to the IPv6 address first before falling back to the IPv4 address.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I wish consumer ISPs would start offering ipv6 support. Every modern OS has fully supported IPv6 for a long long time. Except Redmond based OSes.

EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

XP has supported IPv6 for production use since SP1 back in 2002. I think 7 years counts as "a long long time".

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

Yes, IPv6 makes your browser slower - laggy at best - unbelievably slow at worst. It's one of those 'all depends' situations...

If you don't know what IPv6 is (most ppl don't) you don't need it. Disable IPv6!!

If you know what it is (some ppl do) but don't need it, disable IPv6!

All I use is Firefox. Disabling IPv6 is super simple in Firefox - and it WILL make Firefox faster and more responsive!

Here's a screenie I just took: http://VinDSL.com/images/HowTO_Disable_IPv6.png

Go to 'about:config' filter for 'ipv6' and double-click to disable [value=true]. You'll need to restart Firefox for this change to take effect.

Simple pimple!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I wish consumer ISPs would start offering ipv6 support. Every modern OS has fully supported IPv6 for a long long time. Except Redmond based OSes.

EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

XP has supported IPv6 for production use since SP1 back in 2002. I think 7 years counts as "a long long time".

Last I heard XP cannot do DNS lookups over IPv6. Am I mistaken? (it's entirely possible that I am )

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

It adds some latency when it tries to do an AAAA lookup and/or connect to the IPv6 address first before falling back to the IPv4 address.

That's an infrastructure problem. If the infrastructure was there to handle IPv6 the browser wouldn't have to fall back to IPv4.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

Yes, IPv6 makes your browser slower - laggy at best - unbelievably slow at worst. It's one of those 'all depends' situations...

How does it slow down the browser?

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
How does it slow down the browser?

Google is your friend!

http://www.google.com/search?&q=firefox%2Bslow%2Bipv6 (Google Search: firefox+slow+ipv6)

Take your pick...

Examples:

I was about to write a post about how Intel?s Atom processor wasn?t quite fast enough to run Firefox 3. It used to be painfully slow on my netbook, until I found this great little trick. Apparently, Firefox grinds to a halt while trying to find ipv6 internet addresses that are unavailable on most networks.

When developing on Vista (or XP with IPv6) you'll notice that Firefox is extremely slow on localhost-sites. Here's a fix, courtesy of Dan Wahlin's Weblog, via ScottGu's blog.

In Firefox, type about:config and then in the filter box type dns. You'll see an entry named network.dns.disableIPv6...

Double-click that line so that it reads True, effectively disabling IPv6.

I have just installed 11.1 on a few machines , all upgrades from 11.0 , it may just be something stupid I have done but I find firefox tediously slow on 11.1. There seems to be a delay when opening web pages, like its taking ages to resolve DNS. I have set all DNS manually. When I do a back to back with a 11.0 machine or even a Windowz machine the 11.1 is endless compared. This is not confined to one machine it seems to follow 11.1 around.

Anyone have any Ideas ?

I was having the same issues with firefox...it seemed hopelessly slow, but disabling ipv6 worked like a charm.

Now that 'they' have admitted IPv6 is incompatible with IPv4...

My theory (WHY this happens) is IPv6 confuses the DNS lookup process. That's why, for instance, you'll do a Google Search, but your browser can't find Google - it gives you an error message and tells you to try again. Or, it takes forever to 'draw' a web page that includes/sucks content from lot of different sources - your browser has to resolve/lookup all those IPs, and IPv6 is screwing the pooch.

All I can tell you is, 'they' had better get their sh!t together. IPv4 addresses are going to be exhausted soon (2010-2011) and 'they' better make IPv6 compatible with IPv4 or all hell is going to break loose!

BTW, this is NOT (strictly) a Firefox issue! This IPv6 vs IPv4 incompatibility issue exists across-the-board.

It's probably the single greatest mistake in computer history!

 

[Nothinman]

Now that 'they' have admitted IPv6 is incompatible with IPv4...

That was known from the start, this is nothing new...

My theory (WHY this happens) is IPv6 confuses the DNS lookup process. That's why, for instance, you'll do a Google Search, but your browser can't find Google - it gives you an error message and tells you to try again. Or, it takes forever to 'draw' a web page that includes/sucks content from lot of different sources - your browser has to resolve/lookup all those IPs, and IPv6 is screwing the pooch.

Only if your machine has an IPv6 address configured and technically that's a local config problem if it does but it doesn't work. If you don't have an IPv6 address configured your web browser won't be able to try and will immediately fall back to IPv4.

All I can tell you is, 'they' had better get their sh!t together. IPv4 addresses are going to be exhausted soon (2010-2011) and 'they' better make IPv6 compatible with IPv4 or all hell is going to break loose!

We've been hearing that for at least a decade now...

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
We've been hearing that for at least a decade now...

Yep! Kinda like the rumors about "The Impending Next Great Depression".

Oh, wait, that one came true! :disgust:

This IPv6 FUD reminds me of the financial mess the world is in...

• Question: Why the hell does MIT own 16 *MILLION* public IPv4 addresses? They only have 13,000 host machines...
  
  Answer: Because they can?!?!?

Extra Credit Reading:

• 
  http://libstaff.mit.edu/colser...gital/ordering/ip.html (IP ranges at MIT)
  
  http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ (IANA IPv4 Address Space Registry)

Seems like another case of living life to excess (Affluenza)... and another bubble is about to burst.

LoL!

Obama needs to kick some Legacy IP booty!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
Google is your friend!

http://www.google.com/search?&q=firefox%2Bslow%2Bipv6 (Google Search: firefox+slow+ipv6)

Take your pick...

Examples:

I was about to write a post about how Intel?s Atom processor wasn?t quite fast enough to run Firefox 3. It used to be painfully slow on my netbook, until I found this great little trick. Apparently, Firefox grinds to a halt while trying to find ipv6 internet addresses that are unavailable on most networks.

When developing on Vista (or XP with IPv6) you'll notice that Firefox is extremely slow on localhost-sites. Here's a fix, courtesy of Dan Wahlin's Weblog, via ScottGu's blog.

In Firefox, type about:config and then in the filter box type dns. You'll see an entry named network.dns.disableIPv6...

Double-click that line so that it reads True, effectively disabling IPv6.

I have just installed 11.1 on a few machines , all upgrades from 11.0 , it may just be something stupid I have done but I find firefox tediously slow on 11.1. There seems to be a delay when opening web pages, like its taking ages to resolve DNS. I have set all DNS manually. When I do a back to back with a 11.0 machine or even a Windowz machine the 11.1 is endless compared. This is not confined to one machine it seems to follow 11.1 around.

Anyone have any Ideas ?

I was having the same issues with firefox...it seemed hopelessly slow, but disabling ipv6 worked like a charm.

Now that 'they' have admitted IPv6 is incompatible with IPv4...

My theory (WHY this happens) is IPv6 confuses the DNS lookup process. That's why, for instance, you'll do a Google Search, but your browser can't find Google - it gives you an error message and tells you to try again. Or, it takes forever to 'draw' a web page that includes/sucks content from lot of different sources - your browser has to resolve/lookup all those IPs, and IPv6 is screwing the pooch.

All I can tell you is, 'they' had better get their sh!t together. IPv4 addresses are going to be exhausted soon (2010-2011) and 'they' better make IPv6 compatible with IPv4 or all hell is going to break loose!

BTW, this is NOT (strictly) a Firefox issue! This IPv6 vs IPv4 incompatibility issue exists across-the-board.

It's probably the single greatest mistake in computer history!

These all seem like infrastructure issues (no IPv6 available, so it times out), not IPv6 making the browser slow. Do you have any evidence of IPv6 causing the browsers to be slow or just anecdotal evidence in environments where there is no IPv6 available in the first place?

I don't think the incompatibilities are the problem, it's the lack of acceptance. Which could possibly be chalked up to the incompatibilities I guess...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: Nothinman
We've been hearing that for at least a decade now...

Yep! Kinda like the rumors about "The Impending Next Great Depression".

Oh, wait, that one came true! :disgust:

This IPv6 FUD reminds me of the financial mess the world is in...

• Question: Why the hell does MIT own 16 *MILLION* public IPv4 addresses? They only have 13,000 host machines...
  
  Answer: Because they can?!?!?

Extra Credit Reading:

• 
  http://libstaff.mit.edu/colser...gital/ordering/ip.html (IP ranges at MIT)
  
  http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ (IANA IPv4 Address Space Registry)

Seems like another case of living life to excess... and the bubble is about to burst.

LoL!

Obama needs to kick some Legacy IP booty!

Who knew it would all get so popular?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Would be cool to see IPv6 go mainstream. I wonder if I'll ever see it in my life time though. I hear duke nukem forever will run on ipv6 and they both come out around the first time.

Though I find they should not of changed the format so drasticly. Just add a few more octets. So like 10.20.30.40.50 for example would give you 2^40 IPs, or to be on the extra safe side just add 4 more octets, making it a 64 bit number instead of 32, and reserve a range for ipv4 so old apps still work. Ex: the range 0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0/32 could be reserved so 0.0.0.0.10.1.1.1 would be same as 10.1.1.1. Guess there must of been a good reason for them to do the way they did it.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I wish consumer ISPs would start offering ipv6 support. Every modern OS has fully supported IPv6 for a long long time. Except Redmond based OSes.

EDIT: Does IPv6 make the browser slower or does the lack of ipv6 infrastructure slow things down? I thought it was the fact that the infrastructure was lagging.

XP has supported IPv6 for production use since SP1 back in 2002. I think 7 years counts as "a long long time".

Last I heard XP cannot do DNS lookups over IPv6. Am I mistaken? (it's entirely possible that I am )

That would be the first I've heard of that limitation. MS's own IPv6 FAQ does not mention that, so I have a hard time believing that XP can't do DNS lookups.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
That would be the first I've heard of that limitation. MS's own IPv6 FAQ does not mention that, so I have a hard time believing that XP can't do DNS lookups.

I wish I could remember where I read it. Some interoperability tests where XP needed a v4 DNS server. I'm pretty sure it was pre-SP3, so that might have had something to do with it. Maybe I'll give it a shot in my lab tomorrow.

EDIT:
From here:

Q. Does the IPv6 protocol for Windows support the Domain Name System (DNS)?

A.

Yes. The IPv6 protocol for Windows supports DNS in the following ways:
?

The DNS client supports the querying, processing, and dynamic registration of IPv6 host resource records, also known as AAAA (quad-A) records. For Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008, DNS messages can be exchanged over either IPv4 or IPv6. For Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, DNS messages can be exchanged only over IPv4.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: ViRGE
That would be the first I've heard of that limitation. MS's own IPv6 FAQ does not mention that, so I have a hard time believing that XP can't do DNS lookups.

I wish I could remember where I read it. Some interoperability tests where XP needed a v4 DNS server. I'm pretty sure it was pre-SP3, so that might have had something to do with it. Maybe I'll give it a shot in my lab tomorrow.

EDIT:
From here:

Q. Does the IPv6 protocol for Windows support the Domain Name System (DNS)?

A.

Yes. The IPv6 protocol for Windows supports DNS in the following ways:
?

The DNS client supports the querying, processing, and dynamic registration of IPv6 host resource records, also known as AAAA (quad-A) records. For Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008, DNS messages can be exchanged over either IPv4 or IPv6. For Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, DNS messages can be exchanged only over IPv4.

:Q

After I'm done banging my head against the wall, I'm going to try to figure out what that means. So it can look up IPv6 records, but it can only do so via IPv4? That makes no damn sense.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
After I'm done banging my head against the wall, I'm going to try to figure out what that means. So it can look up IPv6 records, but it can only do so via IPv4? That makes no damn sense.

That's what it means, and you're right. It makes no sense what so ever.

 

[Nothinman]

It was probably quicker to tack on AAAA lookups in the current resolver than to add checks for IPv6 and do the queries over the appropriate transport.

 

[VinDSL]

n/m