Originally posted by: Gurck
$90 close enough? That one's free, I want $5 per search from here on out
Oh, and for FishTankX - What's this I spy?
They've been not innovatingSure a few new things will be thrown in, but it's a simple fact that when you've got it good you get complacent. It's not just Apple or M$, it's anyone. It's why married people gain weight, it's why the Yankees haven't won the series lately, etc. I shouldn't have said monopoly though, market dominance would probably be a better term. Semantics though, you get the idea. Heavy windows users still need to reinstall every 6-12 months and reboot when (not if) the OS starts bogging.
You act like you actually did something worth a sh!t? You still can't find one $100 cheaper. Why are you so particular about sound, but make incorrect statements about the cost. If close enough is good enough for you, then the iPod should be fine. Afterall, its SQ it's "close enough" to the other players.
And please go to head-fi and talk to them for a while. I haven't seen any of them be nearly as negative towards to iPod as you are. You actually call it a piss-poor DAP. Many of them use them and even recommend iPods.
Lmao, $90 is pretty much the same thing, unless you're willing to throw logic out the window... hey, if I swung that way I would too - girls tell me Bono is really cute
"nethyng 4 u, BONO!!1!1oneoneone" ...The average iPod-endorsing head-fi post is something along the lines of... "OMG HI2U GUYZ!!1!!oneone I hav teh iPod bcuz da gurlz @ my middul skool sed itz r0xx0rz, so i went 2 da cirkit citty n playd 1 sawng on da iriver n it suxd!!1oneone. nevurmynd dat eye'm youst 2 da lo sq ore dat 1 sawng iznt enuf...".. give me a break. You'd find less bias among Apple employees. Fact remains, no matter what board you frequent, the average poster's IQ is within 20 points of average...
280s, 64ohm impedence
newParadigm
Diamond Member
- Jul 30, 2003
- 3,667
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: Gurck
Lmao, $90 is pretty much the same thing, unless you're willing to throw logic out the window... hey, if I swung that way I would too - girls tell me Bono is really cute
The average iPod-endorsing head-fi post is something along the lines of... "OMG HI2U GUYZ!!1!!oneone I hav teh iPod bcuz da gurlz @ my middul skool sed itz r0xx0rz, so i went 2 da cirkit citty n playd 1 sawng on da iriver n it suxd!!1oneone. nevurmynd dat eye'm youst 2 da lo sq ore dat 1 sawng iznt enuf...".. give me a break. You'd find less bias among Apple employees. Fact remains, no matter what board you frequent, the average poster's IQ is within 20 points of average...
280s, 64ohm impedence
I'm familiar with the HD-280s. Good phones. Very anylitical sound. But you seem content with the anylitical, distant sound. As am I. (I'm using phones lesser on the foodchain, PX200's. Still nice phones.)
But there are alot of people who endorse the iPod on head-fi. Bangraman, and BlessingX are the ones that come to mind. And they've used other DAP's extensivley. Bangraman owns the MZ-NH1, he's owned the iRiver IHP-120, the iAudio M3, and the Nomad Jukebox 3 (Which is the daddy of all Audiophile DAP's, handily destroys any modern DAP including the whole entire iRiver series) and he's willing to use the iPod mini as his normal commuting machine.
What's your opinion of the iPod mini? Objective analysis of the iPod mini by head-fi members shows that it's not really that lacking in the low end, even with lower impedence phones, and such.
Here's an average anyalsis of the iPod on head-fi. Watch out, it's pretty long. This one was vs. the Rio karma
Review of Rio Karma VS iPod
And I quote GSferrari
"
If anyone doesn?t want the iPod because of its sound quality ? you?re making a mistake. This is a VERy good player sonically. Its just that the battery life sucks so bad that its not even funny. "
And to remark on alot of the detracting points in the review - The ipod 4G has fixed the battery life issue handily and it now gets between 10-12 hours. Which is probably good enough for the average user. Please, don't school me on battery life, my main DAP is the D-NE700 which probably gets about 50-60 hours on a pair of AA's. I know the importance of battery life. But I think, if you remember to charge it everytime, 10 hours is suffcient for everyday use.
If you'll read that review, you'll find it *far* from the absurd mockery of head-fi you were posting.
Do you even regularly visit head-fi?
Cheap business model means cheap construction. Headphone jack connection on the mini is weak, leading to crackling audio or no audio. Text
Sure I read head-fi, I just keep in mind that even moderately intelligent people seem completely unaware of the influence advertising has on them. Look at the success of companies like Bose and AOL... Plus, any online forum will have a user base whose age, on average, is rather young. Further, I'm guessing these are people using the line-out with an amp, we've gone over this..
Well, I haven't seen any evidence of the iPod Mini's headphone jack being weak. But the Zen Xtra's used to have this flaw as well. I've also heard that 'Crackling' audio was also found on a few of the DAP's, because of a metallic headphone connector that would cause interference with metalic base headphone jacks.
At any rate, would you still have an issue with the iPod if each rank was $50 cheaper?
At any rate, would you still have an issue with the iPod if each rank was $50 cheaper?
Yes, a $50 drop on each of their hard drive players would go a long way. I'd still never buy one unless I somehow become wealthy, in which case I will just to smash it to bits and take pics :evil:
Hmm...
This one's great:
http://www.stargeek.com/item/249227.html
and
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/041026/101/f5c8t.html
and:
http://www.macminute.com/2003/08/22/eisa
and:
http://www.agda.asn.au/skills/creative/Apple.html
also, an advertising award:
http://www.macminute.com/2004/06/30/ipodads
even the packaging has won an award!:
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/07/06.4.shtml
Looks like many experts would disagree with you.
This one's fantastic:
I'm calling flambating troll!
This is interesting:
and finally:
well I'm off out now, wouldn't want to sit around infront of a computer becoming a diamond member of flame/trolling....
This one's great:
Nice. Looks like being over 22 doesn't guarantee that you're not immature
Yeah? How about these awards?:
http://www.stargeek.com/item/249227.html
and
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/041026/101/f5c8t.html
and:
http://www.macminute.com/2003/08/22/eisa
and:
http://www.agda.asn.au/skills/creative/Apple.html
also, an advertising award:
http://www.macminute.com/2004/06/30/ipodads
even the packaging has won an award!:
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/07/06.4.shtml
Looks like many experts would disagree with you.
Well, my 38Gig collection has never had any problems and iTunes has never once crashed. Sounds like you've just read one or two aricles about a small bug that occured on a tiny fraction of machines, and that the 'bug' was actually due to windows. I'm quite sure that every other piece of sortware for other MP3 players have a least a couple of issues/bugs just as *any* software does.
This one's fantastic:
This is the most stupid comment I have heard form you, Gurck. You're saying that all people should be able to use a directory structure and 3 different methods to organise/use their files? lol!! do you know ANYTHING about design? really? that's like saying GUI's are pointless and all people should be using command prompts. The beauty of apple products is that you DON'T need to know about directory structure, you DON'T need to be able to use a unix command line to have the security of unix, etc etc. A good design team will produce a system that distances the average user as far from the techy parts of computers as possible, just as higher level programming languages are more productive than using machine code and are understandable to more people.
I'm calling flambating troll!
This is interesting:
and finally:
Well, I think the above quotes speak volumes and require no comment.
You lived with your parents until you were 22? nice.
well I'm off out now, wouldn't want to sit around infront of a computer becoming a diamond member of flame/trolling....
Wow, to what do I owe this vitriol? Bono? :laugh: I called you on being a rabid fanboi frothing at the mouth, no more & no less. Stop whining and admit it. Always sad when some kid resorts to namecalling upon losing an argument Anyway, a few points:
That's not what ATers had to say in this thread. Oddly enough, I already posted a link to it in this thread, seems reading is a bit tough for you, maybe skimmed a bit when the ole' noggin started to hurt, yes?
How about you read before posting? I linked this as well in this thread. Seriously, you look like a damn fool when you post before reading. Granted it's the mini, but it says a lot about their strategy (push a crappy product with a lot of advertising and a trendy image) and their character (ie. not admitting to the problem).
I doubt it's a coincidence that someone who reads so poorly likes the iPod.
Anyway, a few points:That's not what ATers had to say in this thread. Oddly enough, I already posted a link to it in this thread, seems reading is a bit tough for you, maybe skimmed a bit when the ole' noggin started to hurt, yes?
How about you read before posting? I linked this as well in this thread. Seriously, you look like a damn fool when you post before reading. Granted it's the mini, but it says a lot about their strategy (push a crappy product with a lot of advertising and a trendy image) and their character (ie. not admitting to the problem).
I said no such thing. I implied that everyone should have the choice, and stated my preference. Reading comprehension. Learn it, love it.
See above.
I doubt it's a coincidence that someone who reads so poorly likes the iPod.
Arguing with Gurck is like arguing with Steve Jobs that the iPod has been beat. He's just not going to acknowledge it. It's solidly set in his mind and nothing anyone can say or do will ever dislodge the notion that the iRiver iHxx series is superior to the iPod at it's price point, which automatically makes it crap.
I am interested to hear your opinion on the matter, though, Gurck. What do you think of the Karma, m3 and the to be released m5 in relation to the iRiver in terms of value, discounting the Karma's history of higher than average failures?
I am interested to hear your opinion on the matter, though, Gurck. What do you think of the Karma, m3 and the to be released m5 in relation to the iRiver in terms of value, discounting the Karma's history of higher than average failures?
Seriously consider whether you *need* a 40GB player. I thought I would, but it turns out I only listen to about 15GB of the music I have at any given time. The 20GB iPods feel so much lighter than the 40GB varieties, and for some reason, also seems to be much smaller as well. (I own a 40; some of my friends own 20s)
As for the file transfer: USB 1.1 is slow. Slower than shit, so to speak. Do yourself a huge favor and get a USB 2.0 and/or Firewire adapter. For all intents and purposes, USB 2.0 and Firewire are the same.
My 4G 40GB shipped with a firewire cable and a USB 2.0 cable. Either can be used for the dock, but only the FW cable works for the A/C charger. It seems logical to leave the FW connected to the charger, and the USB2 to the dock. Just keep that in mind when searching for USB/FW adapters.
Edit: Grammar.
As for the file transfer: USB 1.1 is slow. Slower than shit, so to speak. Do yourself a huge favor and get a USB 2.0 and/or Firewire adapter. For all intents and purposes, USB 2.0 and Firewire are the same.
My 4G 40GB shipped with a firewire cable and a USB 2.0 cable. Either can be used for the dock, but only the FW cable works for the A/C charger. It seems logical to leave the FW connected to the charger, and the USB2 to the dock. Just keep that in mind when searching for USB/FW adapters.
Edit: Grammar.
Desperate times, desperate measures. The great bit is I only really have to post quotes from you to make my points. Lets kick off with:
But why are you talking about Bono to me, as you did here:?
becasue (and I'm *SURE* you read this post from me properly):
lets see that again, this time in bold since you missed it the first time:
Maybe you should practice what you preach a little, eh? *lol*
Next:
Are you saying that because there was one thread on one website where people weren't happy with the apple products that that immediately makes a definitive argument that even awards where apple was nominated by professionals have no impact on the argument to the contrary? Why do the awards suddenly 'not count' because of that thread you posted?
interesting, but each to their own. Perhaps this might help you:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=debate
Ok, on to the next point. First off, you'll need to read up on hypocrisy. Here, I've given you a link to help you out on your quest for knowledge:
http://dictionary.reference.co...ch?r=2&q=hypocrisy
Now this is an example of hypocrisy in action:
Original statement:
oh dear.... well now I know that you don't have a leg to stand on any more on this discussion. I don't think there's anything you can say that'll convince myself or the other readers that you are not simply writing flamebate in order to get a reaction out of people.
and
and
But why are you talking about Bono to me, as you did here:?
becasue (and I'm *SURE* you read this post from me properly):
lets see that again, this time in bold since you missed it the first time:
did you get it this time?
Maybe you should practice what you preach a little, eh? *lol*Next:
Very clever. So you post a comment to build one side of an argument /discussion and anyone who contradicts you immediately sounds 'a damn fool'?! What are you going on about there? didn't you say:
?
Are you saying that because there was one thread on one website where people weren't happy with the apple products that that immediately makes a definitive argument that even awards where apple was nominated by professionals have no impact on the argument to the contrary? Why do the awards suddenly 'not count' because of that thread you posted?
interesting, but each to their own. Perhaps this might help you:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=debate
Ok, on to the next point. First off, you'll need to read up on hypocrisy. Here, I've given you a link to help you out on your quest for knowledge:
http://dictionary.reference.co...ch?r=2&q=hypocrisy
Now this is an example of hypocrisy in action:
Original statement:
But what's this I read here?:
and
and
and
oh dear.... well now I know that you don't have a leg to stand on any more on this discussion. I don't think there's anything you can say that'll convince myself or the other readers that you are not simply writing flamebate in order to get a reaction out of people.
No, as I stated, anyone who posts before reading sounds like one. Reading compre... ah, what's the use?
I've already given a plethora of reasons it's a dinky player. Your response has been that everyone else is buying it and to namecall. You obviously have no argument. I'm guessing you're a bit upset because my musings on who bought yours for you were accurate?
I like the Karma, but don't love it. A lot of stories of lockups and skipping, and it doesn't follow the universal mass storage standard - though it is supposed to have excellent SQ (haven't listened to one personally, though I have listened to the 3g iPod & the iHP-120). That's a big thing for me, these things are basically expensive hard drives with a battery, chip, and screen. I think the least they can do is allow you to use it as such, and without having to install any proprietary software first. I do updates, virus & spyware sweeps, etc. for friends & family and prefer to bring a pocket-sized device with adaware, spybot, firefox, etc. on it that doubles as a music player rather than a giant CD holder AND a portable music player... Karma also comes with Senny earbuds, which is a plus, but not enough of one. The Carbon looks pretty nice, but $220 for a 5gb drive is far too much and takes it out of consideration, imo, regardless of anything else. The m3 is pretty slick, but has its downsides... If you want to use it as a drive you have to have the cradle with you, which alone is close to half its size - one of the sacrifices they made to get it so small - and size doesn't matter to me in the first place. If it fits in a pocket it fits in a pocket. The m3 has the same power ratings as the iRivers as well, odd you should bring that up as a point against the iRivers if you like the m3 so much. 40gb model is significantly less expensive than the offerings from Apple & iRiver, so that's a definite plus. :thumbsdown: for, like the iRiver, no flac support. Also, like the iRiver, its 2 year warranty beats the iPod's. Hard to find reputable opinions on its sound quality... I haven't seen it mentioned much on head-fi, what's the consensus on that? Have you had the opportunity to hear it? It's too early to comment on the m5.
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,142
- 1,792
- 126
For what it's worth, I just sold my iPod 3G, but am buying the iPod mini 6 GB when it comes out. And yeah, I like it that much.
Every other player I've tried is simply outclassed by the iPod in terms of usability, esp. when you include the software and hardware in the whole package. There's simply no comparison. This time the masses are right: The iPod and iPod mini are simply superior products to all of the competition (so far).
Every other player I've tried is simply outclassed by the iPod in terms of usability, esp. when you include the software and hardware in the whole package. There's simply no comparison. This time the masses are right: The iPod and iPod mini are simply superior products to all of the competition (so far).
Well, the consensus on the iAudio M3 is that it doesn't sound as good as the Karma and iPod but it sounds 'Good enough'. Which means it's about on the same rank as the iHP-120. I know how you like your sound, and I can't comment on it's exact signature, but the M3 supports FLAC, OGG, and the dock you have to use with your m3 for removable storage and line out is very, very small. You see in this picture? The thing with the little USB looking head? Link
Yeah, that's the pocket dock. The only thing i've heard that's bad about it is that it wasn't built to take the weight of normal, 'In your backpack use'.
Frankly, on the issue of output power, I feel that anyone going 'Portable' should be using a closed phone that requires less than 30mw of power to drive. I'm a minimalist. Any situation where you would want to use larger phones, an amp wouldn't hurt, and the iAudio M3 makes the line out easy enough to get with it's minidock.
I do admit, higher output power would be nice. But i'd rather have FLAC support than an extra 20MW of power behind each channel, for most applications. I'd probably be using a pair of HD-251's which can readily be driven off my DE-JN700's 5mw+5mw amp power.
Plus, don't let looks decieve!
My DE-JN700 can put out much more volume than stats would allude to. My DE-JN700 goes almost as loud as my MT-831 at half of the milliwattage and half of the impedence.
Not to mention that the original Sony D-50 was specified as having 25+25mw amp power. BULL SHIT! That thing can beat out most pimetas for raw output.
Anyways, if you're a computer sound enthusiast and listen at home, I reccomend you invest in a $30 Chaintech AV710 and use it's excellent headphone out under foobar, you can use it side by side with your Audigy. Doesn't break the bank, either.
Yeah, that's the pocket dock. The only thing i've heard that's bad about it is that it wasn't built to take the weight of normal, 'In your backpack use'.
Frankly, on the issue of output power, I feel that anyone going 'Portable' should be using a closed phone that requires less than 30mw of power to drive. I'm a minimalist. Any situation where you would want to use larger phones, an amp wouldn't hurt, and the iAudio M3 makes the line out easy enough to get with it's minidock.
I do admit, higher output power would be nice. But i'd rather have FLAC support than an extra 20MW of power behind each channel, for most applications. I'd probably be using a pair of HD-251's which can readily be driven off my DE-JN700's 5mw+5mw amp power.
Plus, don't let looks decieve!
My DE-JN700 can put out much more volume than stats would allude to. My DE-JN700 goes almost as loud as my MT-831 at half of the milliwattage and half of the impedence.
Not to mention that the original Sony D-50 was specified as having 25+25mw amp power. BULL SHIT! That thing can beat out most pimetas for raw output.
Anyways, if you're a computer sound enthusiast and listen at home, I reccomend you invest in a $30 Chaintech AV710 and use it's excellent headphone out under foobar, you can use it side by side with your Audigy. Doesn't break the bank, either.
I was under the impression that it was pretty much agreed on that the iRiver sounded better, I know I certainly feel that way. And I'm not a basshead, I just feel that when music demands punch, it should be on tap - but with the iPod it's not. Again, I know a lot of head-fi members refuse to listen to unamped phones, are you sure their opinions aren't based on listening to the line-out through an amp? I listen to just about everything, fwiw. So essentially the m3 has a flatter response curve? What about other sound characteristics? And are you sure about flac support? A few listings I saw mentioned ogg, wma, mp3, and of course wav - but not flac. The 40gb model is especially attractive at a ~$335 price. And I've considered getting a second sound card, but am a bit worried about that, is it a pain to set up?
Soundcard isn't too bad to setup. Basically you just pop it in, keep the Audigy as your primary, then configure foobar to use the other soundcard. Bam. Foobar outputs to the chaintech. *EXCELLENT* sound which can drive most cans competently, espically your HD-280s. And it can output true 44.1 sound unlike all creative soundcards which automatically resample to 48khz and adulture the sound.
As for the response curve, i'm really not sure. But i'll definatley be able to tell you when I get mine around christmas time. The information I have about the M3 is from bangraman, and he uses unamped listening all the time. He uses his mini with his Shure E5's (Which are *damn* nice and have the bass to compensate for the rolloff) and such. But he said that the M3 didn't sound bad, just not as nice as some of the other ones. You'll probably find alot more about the M3's general resopnse curve at jet audio forums.
I know some people like the bass and trebble to be emphasized, because it gives music that 'Punch' and 'Crash'. As long as the mids are still there, they like it. The bass and treble can be overemphasized and still sound incredible, ala DT-770-80 (Heard it? It's like strapping a subwoofer to your head), but I think some of the headfiers dont like that effect, and prefer to have everything at even levels. Which is probably where you're getting your 'Lifeless' and 'Crappy' sound impressions from. To each his own, but sonically in terms of resolution and detail, the iPod stands well on it's own through it's headphone out, and can drive some of the tougher phones like the DT-250-250 as well as other high wattage like the SR-225, albiet not as well.
Alot of people notice the lack of dynamics your'e talking about when moving from apple to iRiver, but alot of people notice the same difference when moving from iRiver to creative. Which has a reputation for even punchier sound! The Zens are renown for their amazing punch. So it's all relative, man.
(P.S. Yes, my spelling sucks. Get over it)
As for the response curve, i'm really not sure. But i'll definatley be able to tell you when I get mine around christmas time. The information I have about the M3 is from bangraman, and he uses unamped listening all the time. He uses his mini with his Shure E5's (Which are *damn* nice and have the bass to compensate for the rolloff) and such. But he said that the M3 didn't sound bad, just not as nice as some of the other ones. You'll probably find alot more about the M3's general resopnse curve at jet audio forums.
I know some people like the bass and trebble to be emphasized, because it gives music that 'Punch' and 'Crash'. As long as the mids are still there, they like it. The bass and treble can be overemphasized and still sound incredible, ala DT-770-80 (Heard it? It's like strapping a subwoofer to your head), but I think some of the headfiers dont like that effect, and prefer to have everything at even levels. Which is probably where you're getting your 'Lifeless' and 'Crappy' sound impressions from. To each his own, but sonically in terms of resolution and detail, the iPod stands well on it's own through it's headphone out, and can drive some of the tougher phones like the DT-250-250 as well as other high wattage like the SR-225, albiet not as well.
Alot of people notice the lack of dynamics your'e talking about when moving from apple to iRiver, but alot of people notice the same difference when moving from iRiver to creative. Which has a reputation for even punchier sound! The Zens are renown for their amazing punch. So it's all relative, man.
(P.S. Yes, my spelling sucks. Get over it)
This from someone who thinks "u" and "ur" are words :laugh: It just fits so well, the age & intelligence which that implies, liking iPods, and posting only to call anyone who doesn't names...
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
- 84
- 91
oh of course, a wise person like you who liberally sprinkles ad hominems throughout his posts really has a leg to stand on when it comes to such things go crawl back in your hole gurk.
and seriously, i don't trust the word of someone that claims to be an "audiophile" yet uses hd 280's to test things better then average phones? yes... audiophile? u must be joking.
go crawl back in your hole gurk.and seriously, i don't trust the word of someone that claims to be an "audiophile" yet uses hd 280's to test things
better then average phones? yes... audiophile? u must be joking.Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
oh of course, a wise person like you who liberally sprinkles ad hominems throughout his posts really has a leg to stand on when it comes to such things
and seriously, i don't trust the word of someone that claims to be an "audiophile" yet uses hd 280's to test things
at just about everything here... You haven't said a word about music, audio, headphones, or DAPs here - you posted solely to insult me... and you have the nerve to tell me I have no argument? Then you refer to one specific comment, which you took out of context (if you bothered reading you'd see it was an eye-rolling response to someone who claimed not to be a "mega nerd audiophile", thus insulting intelligent people (nerds) and people who enjoy good-sounding music in one comment)... Then you go on to insult my (rather nice) headphones when the weak link in my setup is my sound card... (btw would you (your parents, more likely) mind buying me some 650s?) Seriously, your bridge called... it misses its troll :roll:Actually, both of you are wrong. The HD-280s are a very nice pair of phones, and the bottleneck isn't necessarily the soundcard. The Audigy 2 sounds quite good, and your setup could probably be improved on with easy to drive, audiophile phones like the SR-225, etc.. though it's a matter of taste. The entire sennheiser line is a pain to drive due to astronomical voltage requirements.
But personally I think continuation of the thread is unnecessary. If he decides to buy the iPod, fine. If not, he has *more* than enough information to decide on which ones to buy, as i've listed the good points of the m3 and the Karma (which unfortunatley doesn't have a 40GB version). I don't believe the Zen Xtra is worth looking at because of Creative's bad rep for customer service and the Xtra's reliability problems i've been hearing about. Let him make his own decision, gurck isn't exactly one to be kind with words.
But personally I think continuation of the thread is unnecessary. If he decides to buy the iPod, fine. If not, he has *more* than enough information to decide on which ones to buy, as i've listed the good points of the m3 and the Karma (which unfortunatley doesn't have a 40GB version). I don't believe the Zen Xtra is worth looking at because of Creative's bad rep for customer service and the Xtra's reliability problems i've been hearing about. Let him make his own decision, gurck isn't exactly one to be kind with words.
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