iPhone 8 w/ hexa-core A11

[lopri]

It is almost upon us and here is what appears to be the real thing.

http://www.gsmarena.com/red_iphone_8-news-27201.php

Previous leaks made me wonder if it looked too much like the Galaxy S8, but I do not think it does, at least in this video.

A new SOC (A11, presumably) that will power the new phone has 6 cores: 2 big+4 LITTLE in heterogeneous multiprocessing configuration. A10's 2+2 configuration was cluster migration based.

Apple's next mobile chip - the one set to power Apple's iPhones that will debut tomorrow - is going to pack a six-core processor.

The A11 will have two high-power Monsoon cores and four low-power Mistral cores and all of them will be independently-controllable and will be able to run at the same time.

http://www.gsmarena.com/apples_a11_will_have_six_cores__two_powerful_four_efficient-news-27198.php

 

[Oyeve]

Looks like more bezel than I expected.

 

[Zaap]

Not buying it. (The video) I can't imagine why Apple would allow an iPhone 8 out in the wild in some Apple store for people to mess with.

The deliberate nature of the vid is a bit of giveaway too.

"Oh let me just film this random row of face down iPhones.. lah de dah... oh wait, what was that? OMG...! It's an iphone 8! I'll quickly turn it over and stop filming, just like I'd stop filming if a UFO came out of the sky while I was making a 'random trees and sky' video. Dammit, I set out to make a random face-down iPhones video, not an iPhone 8 video, by golly and I'm sticking to script!"

 

[sweenish]

How reliable is gsmarena for stuff like this?

I check them out when I want to know a phone's specs, but I don't read their news.

That front doesn't look very "Apple" to me.

 

[lopri]

The video shows 5 color options - white, silver, gold, black, and red - and I think only this red one will have white front bezels. The rest should have black bezels to camouflage themselves better along with OLED screens.

It does look like an iPhone to me (not necessarily all positive an assessment). It looks like a amalgam of the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 6 with a touch of 7 (i.e. that camera hump). I expect the A11 will be the indisputable king of performance now with 6 cores at its disposal. Rumors have it that Apple will keep reusing now 3-year old iPhone 6 design to the 4th year for the "regular" iPhone 7S and 7S+, and they will sell them along with the newly designed 8. That would be obviously a strategy to extract more $$. (Apple Watch Edition, anyone?)

Another thing: The new OLED iPhone will have a spectacular battery life. With 4 x LITTLE cores doing most of the usual daily tasks, the phones should leave the big cores in deep sleep state more often. Combined with the OLED's power efficiency and iOS optimizing APL for the OLED screen (assumed), I expect the battery life will be phenomenal.

 

[lopri]

A detailed breakdown of the front sensors.

http://pocketnow.com/2017/09/11/iphone-8-production-rate-still-quite-slow

 

[lopri]

So it turns out to be a Galaxy S8 running iOS.. which is not a bad thing I suppose if you ignore the price tag.

That aside, I commend Apple for continuing to sell (and presumably support) the 6S and the 7 serious iPhones. It bodes well with what Mr. Cook said in the interview, that Apple does not only cater to the rich.

 

[Oyeve]

So it turns out to be a Galaxy S8 running iOS.. which is not a bad thing I suppose if you ignore the price tag.

That aside, I commend Apple for continuing to sell (and presumably support) the 6S and the 7 serious iPhones. It bodes well with what Mr. Cook said in the interview, that Apple does not only cater to the rich.

The 7 is the current generation. Why wouldn't they support it?

 

[lopri]

Think about how Intel do "price cuts" on their CPUs. They bump the clock speeds by 200 MHz and sell the chips for the same price. And instead of selling the older, 200 MHz slower models for lower prices, they simply discontinue making them. There is no cash savings to the end users and the entry price point is always the same. Apple give users options to choose lesser models at lower entry prices.

 

[lopri]

Screen looks crazy good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOTNQk9Xb8

P.S. Why the heck "Bionic"? What is wrong with "A11"?

 

[Oyeve]

Screen looks crazy good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOTNQk9Xb8

P.S. Why the heck "Bionic"? What is wrong with "A11"?

Marketing.

 

[Anubis]

Marketing.

so making people think of the droid bionic which was a total POS is a good idea?

 

[lopri]

Hmm. I would think the intended audience (certainly not average Joe and Jane) for that label might be impervious to such cheap tactics. Maybe I am wrong about that.

A couple other thoughts:

- I did not know that the face recognition demo failed on stage. That must have been a heart-sinking moment.
- I kind of like the new iPhone 8 design. Even the new gold color seems classy unlike the previous efforts. It is surprising they do not introduce a piano-black model for either the 8 or 10. I guess they want to save it for next year.
- I looked at the spec sheet and noticed the 8 Plus weighs over 200g. Apple says the 8 and the 8 Plus are made of strongest glass ever for smartphones, and that might explain the increased weight. As a fan of glass construction I hope this is the beginning of a new trend. Every gain on resilience until now had been translated to thinness with a few exceptions. Maybe Apple will reverse that.
- That they are squeezing extra $50 out of storage upgrade for a $1K smartphone is grotesque.
- iOS 11's Control Panel is a giant cluster****. My gosh couldn't they come up with something better?
- Some are saying that the LITTLE cores in A11 are as powerful as (or more power than) the big cores in SD835 and Exynos 8895. Samsung and Qualcomm have to step up their games or lay people will start taking notice.

 

[Anubis]

the glass doesn't weigh anymore, at the same thickness its basically the same weight. there is just 2x as much of it now as its got glass on the back now. they arent making their own glass, they are getting it from the same company as all other makers of high end phones are

<- works for a glass company

 

[quikah]

Hmm. I would think the intended audience (certainly not average Joe and Jane) for that label might be impervious to such cheap tactics. Maybe I am wrong about that.

This isn't new. Seems like it started with the A10? A10 Fusion, A11 Bionic, what is the difference?

 

[purbeast0]

Hmm. I would think the intended audience (certainly not average Joe and Jane) for that label might be impervious to such cheap tactics. Maybe I am wrong about that.

A couple other thoughts:

- I did not know that the face recognition demo failed on stage. That must have been a heart-sinking moment.
- I kind of like the new iPhone 8 design. Even the new gold color seems classy unlike the previous efforts. It is surprising they do not introduce a piano-black model for either the 8 or 10. I guess they want to save it for next year.
- I looked at the spec sheet and noticed the 8 Plus weighs over 200g. Apple says the 8 and the 8 Plus are made of strongest glass ever for smartphones, and that might explain the increased weight. As a fan of glass construction I hope this is the beginning of a new trend. Every gain on resilience until now had been translated to thinness with a few exceptions. Maybe Apple will reverse that.
- That they are squeezing extra $50 out of storage upgrade for a $1K smartphone is grotesque.
- iOS 11's Control Panel is a giant cluster****. My gosh couldn't they come up with something better?
- Some are saying that the LITTLE cores in A11 are as powerful as (or more power than) the big cores in SD835 and Exynos 8895. Samsung and Qualcomm have to step up their games or lay people will start taking notice.

As pointed out in another thread, the face detection did not fail on stage. The phone had just been rebooted and in order to use FaceID you have to first input your password. It actually said that on the screen, just as when you turn on a current iPhone it tells you that you need to enter your password before you can use TouchID.

 

[lopri]

the glass doesn't weigh anymore, at the same thickness its basically the same weight. there is just 2x as much of it now as its got glass on the back now. they arent making their own glass, they are getting it from the same company as all other makers of high end phones are

<- works for a glass company

Interesting. Then what is the basis for Apple to claim the strongest glass ever on? That they source glass is a common sense but I presumed that they are either using a newer material or a thicker glass. If the weight and thickness are the same as previous glass, that seems to rule out anything new?

This isn't new. Seems like it started with the A10? A10 Fusion, A11 Bionic, what is the difference?

I thought A10 "Fusion" was also an oddity but at least it signaled Apple's first entry into the big.LITTLE, which was a significant event in and out of Apple. I did not know that it was going to be a perpetual thing. No harm no foul, I guess.

As pointed out in another thread, the face detection did not fail on stage. The phone had just been rebooted and in order to use FaceID you have to first input your password. It actually said that on the screen, just as when you turn on a current iPhone it tells you that you need to enter your password before you can use TouchID.

I thought the error message after reboot is differently worded. I will double check on my iPad. Still there is a conspiracy that there is more than meets the eye in this episode. XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unIkqhB2nA0

P.S. What in the heck is "Deeper Pixels"? Is it a euphemism or a physical measurement?

P.S. #2 Single = 4241, Multi = 10316. Absolutely crazy.
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/3981917

 

[purbeast0]

Here is the image, stolen from the other thread.

Looks identical to the current version for Touch ID.

 

[lopri]

There appears to be a different explanation. Straight from the horse's mouth:

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/14/apple-face-id-didnt-fail-keynote/

There was a lot of speculation about just what went wrong on stage, ranging from a Face ID failure to a passcode lock, and according to Apple, it was the latter issue that caused the device not to work properly on stage. In a statement provided to Yahoo's David Pogue, Apple says the device locked after several people interacted with it ahead of Federighi, causing it to require a passcode to unlock.

"Tonight, I was able to contact Apple. After examining the logs of the demo iPhone X, they now know exactly what went down. Turns out my first theory in this story was wrong--but my first UPDATE theory above was correct: "People were handling the device for stage demo ahead of time," says a rep, "and didn't realize Face ID was trying to authenticate their face. After failing a number of times, because they weren't Craig, the iPhone did what it was designed to do, which was to require his passcode." In other words, "Face ID worked as it was designed to.​

"While Touch ID locks the iPhone and requires users to input a passcode after five failed entry attempts, Face ID only allows for two failed recognition attempts before it locks the iPhone and requires a passcode to access the device, according to developer documentation. There were arguments over how many times Federighi attempted to unlock the iPhone X with Face ID while on stage given that two attempt limitation, but Apple's explanation makes sense. A secondary iPhone X unlocked with no issues during the demonstration.

 

[Red Storm]

A newly announced feature not working perfectly during its on stage announcement is not surprising at all, happens all the time. The people that keep mentioning it are focusing on the wrong thing. The bigger issue with Face ID is that even if the scan/verification process is as fast as current TouchID (and it most likely isn't), it's still going to be slower overall because with TouchID you can have your phone unlocked before it even leaves your pocket, or unlock it on your desk by just reaching out to it, rather than having to align your face to the phone. This is like going back from TouchID to something like pattern or passcode, less convenient and takes more time.

 

[purbeast0]

I got up at 3am to order my wife the gold 8 plus 256gb. Then I got to work at like 6:30 and it was still in stock. In fact it was still in stock until like 9:30am or so on the Verizon site, which had it being delivered at 9/29 instead of 9/22. But apple's site still had it showing for delivery on 9/22.

When I got my previous 2 iPhones this same way they were way sold out by the morning time. I wonder if sales are down, if they have more hardware ready for launch, or people are just waiting for the X.

 

[Red Storm]

I got up at 3am to order my wife the gold 8 plus 256gb. Then I got to work at like 6:30 and it was still in stock. In fact it was still in stock until like 9:30am or so on the Verizon site, which had it being delivered at 9/29 instead of 9/22. But apple's site still had it showing for delivery on 9/22.

When I got my previous 2 iPhones this same way they were way sold out by the morning time. I wonder if sales are down, if they have more hardware ready for launch, or people are just waiting for the X.

I'm gonna guess waiting for the X, especially with those middle of the night pre-orders, those are likely more enthusiastic users who probably want the high end model.

 

[lopri]

I picked the highest single-cores scores from each database of the A10 and the A11 and compared the sub-scores of both single and multi. Keep in mind that the clock frequency is likely higher for the A11. My guesstimate is 2.5 ~ 2.6 GHz.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/2822603?baseline=3976700

Apple claimed 25% single-core improvement and 70% multi-core improvement. I do not know if they base that claim on Geekbench, but overall single-core improvement comes a bit short, at 20% in the above chart. Multi-core improvement is spot on at 70%. We need the clock frequency for IPC comparision - if it runs at 2.5 GHz, IPC improvement is 12%.

 

[purbeast0]

I have no clue what those numbers mean but I know that both the iPhone 8 and X will be a tremendous performance boost to my iPhone 6.

 

[Red Storm]

I love seeing performance advancements, but what mobile benchmarks really need is a way to quantify what all the "50% faster!!!" lines mean in actual, real world usage. When I hear the new iPhone/Galaxy/Pixel is X% faster, that's great! But what does that actually mean? How much faster will it do x, y, and z compared to previous models?

For example, with PCs you can compare encoding benchmarks and actually see how much faster one processor will do the job compared to another. Why does this not exist in the mobile world? I might actually pay attention to benchmarks if they did.