iPhone 4s, Verizon & Data

[sep]

My GF has a iphone 4s on verzion's network/plan. She cannot turn data off and text. Why is that? I have a droid and can do this without issues.

Also we have seen data usage when we're at home and wifi is enabled. What's going on with her phone?

Thanks,
-JC

 

[boomhower]

Do you mean Verizon won't let her stop paying for data or she literally can't turn off 3G data on the phone? For the phone side there is a setting in the settings menu where you can turn off cellular data.

 

[bearxor]

I have a Verizon 4S here, Go to Settings -> General -> Cellular -> Cellular Data and switch it off.

As for data usage over cellular at home, does it happen when the phone is in standby? iOS turns the wifi off when a phone is in standby after it hasn't been used for a few minutes. Like, if you're syncing songs and turn it off, WiFi will stay on. But if you're not doing anything after a few minutes, the WiFi will turn off so that it saves on battery.

 

[sep]

Sorry I wasn't clear about the questions. Yes, I understand how to turn data off/on and that it's required with a smart phone from Verizon.

a. If cell data is turned off she cannot send a text. This is the same with receiving texts. Why? My droid allows for me to turn cell data off and I can send/receive texts.

b. We get cell data usage while in wifi area's (HOME). Why? My droid doesn't act this way.

Bearxor - If that's true, then question b has been answered and is a huge negative to have an iphone. Do you know if this is documented anywhere?

 

[bearxor]

I just tried it on mine. Cellular data switched off, text still comes through.

An iMessage might not come through if you don't have a data connection. But a standard SMS definitely comes through.

I'm not sure if it's documented anywhere, I'm just going off my experience and some reading. When you take your iPhone out of standby, you can notice the WiFi icon doesn't toggle on for a few seconds because it needs to reconnect to the network. I've been SSH'd in to a phone and had it go in to standyby and then a couple of minutes later I lose my connection. Pull the phone out of standby and it comes back on. Check this thread, even though it's a couple years old:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2300302?start=0&tstart=0

I don't think this is a negative. What's the point of running the WiFi radio for what will be tiny amounts of data when you have to also run the cellular modem anyway. Turn the WiFi off, use a couple of MB's during sleep, save on battery, seems like a pretty easy tradeoff to me. As I said, if you're doing something on WiFi like transferring some music or something, even going in to sleep will leave the wifi on until the transfer is finished.

I'd imagine that if you wanted to turn cellular data off on a regular basis, you're probably in a pretty fringe usage group.

 

[sep]

I think that's a copout for apple products. My droid allows me to turn cellular Data off and function completely on WiFi without any issues.

As for the reason it doesn't matter it's a basic function of the phone and it doesn't work.

icloud-The option only backup using WiFi was enabled. After several weeks of every nights 500mb backup adds up when WiFi doesn't count towards the cell data plan.

Unknown usage when in stand bye adds up too. We are seeing 40 to 90 mb for apps that should be using WiFi not cell data.

Are others seeing this on the iphone? If not what carrier are you on?

 

[bearxor]

I think that's a copout for apple products. My droid allows me to turn cellular Data off and function completely on WiFi without any issues.

As for the reason it doesn't matter it's a basic function of the phone and it doesn't work.

icloud-The option only backup using WiFi was enabled. After several weeks of every nights 500mb backup adds up when WiFi doesn't count towards the cell data plan.

Unknown usage when in stand bye adds up too. We are seeing 40 to 90 mb for apps that should be using WiFi not cell data.

Are others seeing this on the iphone? If not what carrier are you on?

I'm not saying that its invalid, all I'm saying is that you can't please all the people all the time. As for iCloud backups, it won't backup unless its plugged in. The reason for that is that the WiFi will stay on if the device is plugged in, so iCloud backups (the automated ones, anyways) are done over wifi. Also, don't forget that iCloud backups are incremental, so you're usually not backing up a lot every night.

I would imagine any other usage you might rack up will totally depend on what you have installed on the phone and are using. A combination of email accounts, amount of email received (attachments aren't automatically downloaded) and whatever push notifications you have running that are active during sleep mode.

 

[sep]

I'm saying is that you can't please all the people all the time.

What? It's a basic function of the phone. Give me the option to turn wifi off in stand bye mode or not. Then why isn't cell data off too?

As for iCloud backups, it won't backup unless its plugged in.

WRONG! It was backing up on ours not plugged in with the option "Use Wifi Only".

...active during sleep mode

Apple doesn't give you an option to not receive during sleep mode.

bearxor you totally sound like an Apple Boy...

The points I've validated here;
a. The iPhone does not allow you to turn cell data off and function normally like a droid does.
b. the iPhone uses cell data even when you specify not too. This may or may not be related to the phone going in to sleep mode and turning off wifi, but why have the option "Use Wifi only"!

Thanks,
-JC

 

[apac]

Is her phone trying to send all texts as MMSs for some reason?

 

[ImDonly1]

Is her phone trying to send all texts as MMSs for some reason?

I have a feeling she's using iMessage and that's why they are not going through because they are MMS.

 

[TheStu]

What? It's a basic function of the phone. Give me the option to turn wifi off in stand bye mode or not. Then why isn't cell data off too?



WRONG! It was backing up on ours not plugged in with the option "Use Wifi Only".



Apple doesn't give you an option to not receive during sleep mode.

bearxor you totally sound like an Apple Boy...

The points I've validated here;
a. The iPhone does not allow you to turn cell data off and function normally like a droid does.
b. the iPhone uses cell data even when you specify not too. This may or may not be related to the phone going in to sleep mode and turning off wifi, but why have the option "Use Wifi only"!

Thanks,
-JC

Ok, so you're right and he's wrong. So what?

If you turn off Cell data, then it will use wifi only. Whether that stops it from disabling the wifi radio under standby, I can't say.

All design is about compromise. Apple's compromise was that even if you have wifi set to ON, it will put the radio to sleep after a certain amount of time in order to conserve battery power. Your device's compromise is the opposite, sacrificing battery life in exchange for always using wifi, even if over the course of several hours, it amounts to only a few MBs of data.

Here are my questions for you:

How much data usage are you seeing from home?

 

[TheStu]

I have a feeling she's using iMessage and that's why they are not going through because they are MMS.

No, iMessage is straight data.

 

[bearxor]

WRONG! It was backing up on ours not plugged in with the option "Use Wifi Only".

If thisis happening, then something is wrong. I'm looking at a Verizon 4S and a AT&T 5 and iCloud backups specifically say that they will back up when the iPhone is plugged in, locked and connected to wifi. The option to back up now is even greyed out, saying "you must be connected to a wifi network to start a backup."

If yours isn't behaving like that, something is wrong.

bearxor you totally sound like an Apple Boy...

If like to think that an Apple fanboy would just tell you that that's the way it is and that's the way it should be and that it's perfect. That's not what I'm doing here. I'm trying to explain how it works and why Apple chose to make it work that way. The bottom line is that you really don't have a choice to make different functionality on iOS. But that's why Android exists. If they were exact copies of each other functionality-wise, then there wouldn't really be a point in having two different OS's.

But seriously, listen, if this is a make or break usage case for you, then switch her back to Android. What you're wanting to do is simply not going to work the way you want on iOS. That's a decision you have to make when you use an iPhone: Live with it or switch.

 

[sep]

bearxor - My comment about being an Apple Boy wasn't to be a negative to you. It just seemed like you like the apple products. All is good man

theStu - The comments about a few MB is incorrect. If someone is close the data limit and the phone uses data while in this mode (let's call it bypass wifi and use data even though I said not too mode) it could cause an overage. I don't know about you, but me the OP cares about the money I spend.
Okay here is what I've learned from my questions...
A. iPhones 4s (ios) use imessages and sms. imessages require cell data or wifi. If wifi is not available then cell data will be used. GOT IT!
B. When the iphone 4s goes in to stand bye mode wifi is turned off. Any data requests (inbound or outbound) will use cell data. GOT IT!
FYI...
It seems some have said the functionality to turn off wifi in standbye mode and use cell data regardless of the users request to use wifi only is to conserve Battery Life, but my 2+ year old droid that doesn't turn wifi off gets the same or better battery life.
Thanks,
-JC

 

[kamikazekyle]

On my Verizon 4S running the last version of iOS 5:

There's an option for iMessage to send all iMessages as SMS, so it doesn't even worry about having a data connection. I've disabled celluar data on my 4S at times or had insufficent signal for a data connection, yet iMessage still sent messages as plain SMS.

The wifi radio does turn off when the phone's screen turns off (after a bit). I suppose because the WiFi radio used more power in standby during Apple's testing than their cellular radio, or maybe their cellular radio had better sleep states than their wifi radio choice. But that's just a random hypothesis. Regardless, I can't say I had any cellular data use with the cellular data option turned off.

Unless you're running iOS 6 and something has changed, or something is just messed up with your iOS install/apps, you shouldn't be using any cellular data with the option turned off.

There was a hubub a while back about early versions of iOS5 (I think) erronously sending diagnostics data over cellular connections, resulting in large data use. But I haven't heard anything about that for some time.

As the phone appears to be acting abnormally, try a factory reset. If it still seems to be acting odd, contact Apple or Verizon. Also, use the option to reset the cellular use data counter on the iPhone at the start of a billing cycle (or at the trigger of a new billing day, just for ease of measurement), and then after a few days compare it to what Verizon says your data use should be. If your phone is reporting significantly lower than Verizon's counter, something is certainly off.

 

[TheStu]

On my Verizon 4S running the last version of iOS 5:

There's an option for iMessage to send all iMessages as SMS, so it doesn't even worry about having a data connection. I've disabled celluar data on my 4S at times or had insufficent signal for a data connection, yet iMessage still sent messages as plain SMS.

Can you attach a screenshot of what you are seeing? Because on mine it reads to me as 'If you cannot send an iMessage, an SMS is sent instead'. An iMessage is an IM. It uses your data connection, be it 3/4G or WiFi, but it isn't SMS. If the recipient doesn't have a device that can accept an iMessage, then it is using SMS. It isn't using SMS as the backend for iMessage. You can tell if it is SMS or iMessage based on the color of the conversation in Messages (the app). Green is SMS, Blue is iMessage.

As the phone appears to be acting abnormally, try a factory reset. If it still seems to be acting odd, contact Apple or Verizon. Also, use the option to reset the cellular use data counter on the iPhone at the start of a billing cycle (or at the trigger of a new billing day, just for ease of measurement), and then after a few days compare it to what Verizon says your data use should be. If your phone is reporting significantly lower than Verizon's counter, something is certainly off.

I think that the OP's point is a little bit less about how it is acting abnormally, which if it is a ton of data, it probably is, but that it isn't acting how he thinks it should act.