iPad Mini: it's real

[Ichinisan]

Speculation:

How will Apple price iPad Mini? It makes me think...

Apple is clearly going to release iPad Mini this holiday season to avoid massive market share losses to $200 7-inch tablets like Google Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HD.

These popular 7" tablets are about $200. Apple's cheapest iPod Touch 5th-generation is $300 and capacity starts at 32GB.

I doubt the iPad Mini will be $200, because there's always an "Apple Tax" for Apple products. At $200, the iPad Mini would be cheaper than the cheapest current-generation iPod Touch...and I don't think that's going to happen.

If it's $300, then an iPad Mini will be the same price as the current-generation iPod Touch. The iPod Touch 5th-generation is so new, people haven't even received their pre-orders yet...so I doubt there's going to be a price-drop for the iPod Touch. Having the same price would probably make new iTouch owners feel ripped-off. Obviously, the iPod Touch has a MUCH smaller screen (4" versus almost 8"). At $300, the only advantage the iPod Touch would have is that it has 32GB of storage versus the iPad Mini's likely 16GB. That's not compelling because everyone knows storage capacity is cheap for the manufacturer, and Apple gouges consumers on this. Storage capacity doesn't affect performance like memory capacity, and the iPad Mini will probably have 1GB RAM while iPod Touch has only half that (512MB).

I can't imagine it would be *over* $350, because then it wouldn't compete effectively with the 7" tablets out there.

I canceled my iPod Touch 5th-gen preorder today. Thankfully, my order wasn't part of the first-wave of shipments. For future iOS app development, I think I'm better-served by owning an iPhone 5 (1136x640, A6), iPad Mini (1024x768, A5), and iPad 3rd-generation (2048x1536, A5X). I don't plan to buy that expensive iPad 3rd-gen unless I earn some big money developing apps. It's just too damn expensive.

My guess? It will be closer to $300 than $200 and the iPod Touch 5th generation will be a terrible deal by comparison.

 

[runawayprisoner]

It'll likely be $249 to $349, and will come with 8GB and 16GB options IMO. That should give people enough incentive to look at the iPod Touch and consider whether or not they want more storage.

I don't think Apple left out the 8GB and 16GB options for the iPod Touch 5th gen without reasons.

Also, unless you need to test hardware sensors or the camera, you actually don't need a real device to do iOS development.

 

[Ichinisan]

It'll likely be $249 to $349, and will come with 8GB and 16GB options IMO. That should give people enough incentive to look at the iPod Touch and consider whether or not they want more storage.

I don't think Apple left out the 8GB and 16GB options for the iPod Touch 5th gen without reasons.

Also, unless you need to test hardware sensors or the camera, you actually don't need a real device to do iOS development.

Yeah, but I don't think an iPad 3 simulator would fit on my 1920x1200 screen. I need to fix my 2560x1600 display before I can even simulate iPad 3.

I've seen some poor apps that were the result of developing only in a simulator, or only on an iPod Touch without testing on an iPhone. I don't want to be another one of those guys making poor apps.

 

[nickbits]

I've seen some poor apps that were the result of developing only in a simulator, or only on an iPod Touch without testing on an iPhone. I don't want to be another one of those guys making poor apps.

What issues have you noticed between the Touch and iPhone? I've never bothered testing my apps on a touch.

 

[Kaido]

Well, like you mentioned, the cheapest new iPod Touch is $299, so there's no way they would give you a screen that is twice is big on an iPad Mini for less than that. And it has to be priced less than a 10" iPad. My guess would be $399, but my hope would be $349. But knowing Apple...$100 more than an iTouch, $100 less than a big iPad would make more financial sense. But then, you're getting a smaller screen, so 3" less for only $100 less doesn't make a lot of sense either.

Either way, I'm really interested in one. I have an original iPad and it's just too large to go places with me, but my brother has a 7" Kindle Fire and it's much more portable, and also a nicer size for reading (both a smaller screen similar to a paperback, as well as lighter & easier to hold).

 

[runawayprisoner]

Yeah, but I don't think an iPad 3 simulator would fit on my 1920x1200 screen. I need to fix my 2560x1600 display before I can even simulate iPad 3.

I've seen some poor apps that were the result of developing only in a simulator, or only on an iPod Touch without testing on an iPhone. I don't want to be another one of those guys making poor apps.

The simulator has a scaling option, so you can scale things up and down to fit the entire screen.

If you need to zoom in, 100% scale shows scroll bars that you can use to navigate around.

That aside, the iPad Retina simulator would not fit 1:1 entirely on just any screen. Even on the Retina MacBook Pro. The iPad 3 has way too many vertical pixels (2048). You can fit it at 100% scale on the Retina MacBook Pro when running scaled 1920 x 1200 mode, but your eyes aren't seeing 1:1 there. Some pixels will be lost in the translation, and it would still be different when you view it on a real iPad 3. Landscape would be fine, though, and the rMBP can show 1:1 in landscape.

But that doesn't make the iPad 3 necessary since you can still use the scroll bars just fine in the simulator on any screen.

Poor apps perform poorly not because they were tested in the simulator or on the iPod Touch but because the developer did not bother optimizing their codes. A glaring and on-going problem is memory leakage. All iOS apps require manual management of memory, so if they don't release something when it's not in use, **** builds up and eventually the phone crashes.

Apple includes a memory leakage detector in their profiling tool that would allow developers to catch and patch leaks, and I'd encourage other developers to try that one out. If you don't use that tool, then it makes no difference whether you test your app on your phone or in the simulator. Things will crash left and right either way.

 

[amdhunter]

$199 - 249

 

[Aikouka]

I would probably guess $299. I'm tempted to pick one up for my mom as a Christmas gift.

 

[TheStu]

The simulator has a scaling option, so you can scale things up and down to fit the entire screen.

If you need to zoom in, 100% scale shows scroll bars that you can use to navigate around.

That aside, the iPad Retina simulator would not fit 1:1 entirely on just any screen. Even on the Retina MacBook Pro. The iPad 3 has way too many vertical pixels (2048). You can fit it at 100% scale on the Retina MacBook Pro when running scaled 1920 x 1200 mode, but your eyes aren't seeing 1:1 there. Some pixels will be lost in the translation, and it would still be different when you view it on a real iPad 3. Landscape would be fine, though, and the rMBP can show 1:1 in landscape.

But that doesn't make the iPad 3 necessary since you can still use the scroll bars just fine in the simulator on any screen.

Poor apps perform poorly not because they were tested in the simulator or on the iPod Touch but because the developer did not bother optimizing their codes. A glaring and on-going problem is memory leakage. All iOS apps require manual management of memory, so if they don't release something when it's not in use, **** builds up and eventually the phone crashes.

Apple includes a memory leakage detector in their profiling tool that would allow developers to catch and patch leaks, and I'd encourage other developers to try that one out. If you don't use that tool, then it makes no difference whether you test your app on your phone or in the simulator. Things will crash left and right either way.

Was XCode updated for the Retina display? If it had been then it would be like iMovie or Final Cut where it has a 1920*1080 preview window that is mapped 1:1 to the panel, even though the effective resolution is 1920*1200 for the rest of the interface. They could do the same thing with the simulator, have a 2048*1536 (will fit on the 2880*1800 display) 1:1 mapped preview, but the rest of the interface is 1920*1200. Only time you'll have a problem is when you simulate landscape, then it becomes too tall for the display.

 

[runawayprisoner]

It was updated. But in portrait, the iPad Retina simulator is 1536 x 2048, which is way too tall for the Retina Display.

It's in landscape that the whole thing fits... since in landscape, the resolution is 2048 x 1536.

I think you mixed that up.

Anyhow, if you want to see the whole thing, and don't mind some missing pixels (seriously... you shouldn't mind a missing pixel at 2048 x 1536), then 1920 x 1200 scaled mode will show everything:

But other than this display:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors

I don't know of anything else in existence that can display the iPad Simulator at 1:1 in portrait...

 

[mmntech]

I'm going to say it will start at $299 for a 16gb model, $399 for 32gb, and $499 for the 64gb.

 

[Subyman]

I just set the zoom to 50% when testing retina in the simulator. I usually push it to my iPad 3 for testing as it doesn't take much longer.

I'm think the base model iPad mini will be $299. I think the storage will go to 32GB for $399. If cell service is added, I'd expect a 50-60 dollar jump for each storage model.

 

[TheStu]

It was updated. But in portrait, the iPad Retina simulator is 1536 x 2048, which is way too tall for the Retina Display.

It's in landscape that the whole thing fits... since in landscape, the resolution is 2048 x 1536.

I think you mixed that up.

Anyhow, if you want to see the whole thing, and don't mind some missing pixels (seriously... you shouldn't mind a missing pixel at 2048 x 1536), then 1920 x 1200 scaled mode will show everything:

But other than this display:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors

I don't know of anything else in existence that can display the iPad Simulator at 1:1 in portrait...

Pity that the dropbox menubar icon is still crummy.

 

[mmntech]

I just set the zoom to 50% when testing retina in the simulator. I usually push it to my iPad 3 for testing as it doesn't take much longer.

I'm think the base model iPad mini will be $299. I think the storage will go to 32GB for $399. If cell service is added, I'd expect a 50-60 dollar jump for each storage model.

Rumour mill says it'll be WiFi only.

 

[Ichinisan]

What issues have you noticed between the Touch and iPhone? I've never bothered testing my apps on a touch.

The first example I can think of off the top of my head is SnesMusic. It used to respond poorly when interrupted with phone calls. It was obvious to me that the developer only used it with an iPod Touch. He corrected each issue I brought up with updates, so he's actually a great developer in my book.

I'm not sure if there are problems the other way around. With each generation, there are differences in capabilities between the iPhone / iPod Touch (location, vibration, built-in speaker, built-in mic, built-in camera, silent switch, processor, memory capacity, etc)...but these differences seem to be reduced with each generation. I don't expect an iPod to ever have LTE or true GPS, but I wish it had a silent switch and vibration.

 

[Ichinisan]

Well, like you mentioned, the cheapest new iPod Touch is $299, so there's no way they would give you a screen that is twice is big on an iPad Mini for less than that. And it has to be priced less than a 10" iPad. My guess would be $399, but my hope would be $349. But knowing Apple...$100 more than an iTouch, $100 less than a big iPad would make more financial sense. But then, you're getting a smaller screen, so 3" less for only $100 less doesn't make a lot of sense either.

Either way, I'm really interested in one. I have an original iPad and it's just too large to go places with me, but my brother has a 7" Kindle Fire and it's much more portable, and also a nicer size for reading (both a smaller screen similar to a paperback, as well as lighter & easier to hold).

There's simply no way it would be $400. Also, the point of the Mini is to avoid losing market share to these 7" tablets this holiday season. At $400, Apple would lose as much market share as they would if they didn't release the Mini at all. Apple already sells an iPad for $400: The iPad 2. I expect the Mini to be $300, but I don't believe it's could possibly be over $350.

 

[KeithP]

Well, like you mentioned, the cheapest new iPod Touch is $299, so there's no way they would give you a screen that is twice is big on an iPad Mini for less than that..

Why not? The iPod Touch is much more portable and will likely have more storage than the base model of the iPad Mini. I could see a iPad Mini at $249 without any problems from a product mix stand point. I am not saying it is likely, just possible.

-KeithP

 

[runawayprisoner]

Pity that the dropbox menubar icon is still crummy.

Yeah... It's just an icon so I don't really mind it much but... it does look obviously... pixelated next to everything else.

The first example I can think of off the top of my head is SnesMusic. It used to respond poorly when interrupted with phone calls. It was obvious to me that the developer only used it with an iPod Touch. He corrected each issue I brought up with updates, so he's actually a great developer in my book.

If it had issues when coming back from a phone call, it would have issues when coming back from the App Switcher as well.

Or is this a 3.x, 4.x app we are talking about?

 

[Ichinisan]

Yeah... It's just an icon so I don't really mind it much but... it does look obviously... pixelated next to everything else.



If it had issues when coming back from a phone call, it would have issues when coming back from the App Switcher as well.

Or is this a 3.x, 4.x app we are talking about?

When I first tried it, it was a 4.x app that supported the background music API. It had no problems with app switching.

I would pause the music or leave the app when I was done with it. Then I'd get a phone call hours later, even days later, and the music would start playing after the phone call ends.

 

[Steelbom]

I thought it would be priced at $249 or $299. However it's also possible they replace the iPad 2 with the iPad mini at $399.

 

[vailr]

I don't expect an iPod to ever have LTE or true GPS, but I wish it had a silent switch and vibration.

You're probably correct about it not having "true GPS", although not including that feature would be reason enough to not buy Apple and look at some other company's 7" tablet.

 

[runawayprisoner]

When I first tried it, it was a 4.x app that supported the background music API. It had no problems with app switching.

I would pause the music or leave the app when I was done with it. Then I'd get a phone call hours later, even days later, and the music would start playing after the phone call ends.

Sounds like you don't have a lot going on with your phone.

An app still running days later... I haven't seen that on any device (not even the iPad 3) other than the iPhone 5.

 

[Ichinisan]

Sounds like you don't have a lot going on with your phone.

An app still running days later... I haven't seen that on any device (not even the iPad 3) other than the iPhone 5.

Well, it wouldn't be uncommon that the suspended app would still respond the next day after my phone sat unused through the night.

 

[Ichinisan]

You're probably correct about it not having "true GPS", although not including that feature would be reason enough to not buy Apple and look at some other company's 7" tablet.

I think it's very possible that a future iPad will have true GPS, though I haven't seen an indication that it will. The iPod is least likely to get it. I don't follow it very closely, but I can't think of any other tablets that have true GPS. Most just use the less-accurate location from mobile phone towers and WiFi-only tablets get their location data from a crowdsourced Internet database (built with data from mobile phones that associated GPS coordinates with WiFi networks).

 

[Ichinisan]

I thought it would be priced at $249 or $299. However it's also possible they replace the iPad 2 with the iPad mini at $399.

No way it will be $400

At that price, the iPad Mini simply could not prevent $200 7" tablets from stealing market share. It's the same price you can pay today for a brand-new 10" iPad.