Inventing new devices but without tech/math engineering knowhow...

Gannon

Senior member
Jul 29, 2004
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I have a lot of good ideas for inventions in my head, I can see how they work and how they are put together in 3D geometric space but...

I'm wondering how I would go about making models and schematics of them to prototype them?

I mean I could go get some model plaster and build the actual inventions, but I'd need someone to translate for me (an engineer, etc) to actually tell me what pieces I need, etc.

If you've got an invention in your head but are without technical expertise, where do you go?
 

Kreon

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2006
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What about that package they advertise on TV

I think it's called Inventech??
I know they help with patents, maybe with schematics too?
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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Ultimately you are going to have to go to college if you want any chance making your device a reality. If you can make working plaster model, I would do that to see if the model actually does what you want it to do.

Can't say that you are going to get a lot of help with this one, try wikipedia for schematic Ideas and such.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
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I'm kind of interested in what kind of ideas you have, because I am a grad student in EE and I only feel like I'm just starting to scratch the surface of my field (IC design), and am nowhere near being able to create some technological breakthrough that no one else has thought of yet. Heck, I'm still learning how the current stuff works.

I'm not attacking your ideas or anything, I'm just curious as to how someone with no engineering background can have these great ideas that supposedly no one else has ever thought of.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: Special K
I'm kind of interested in what kind of ideas you have, because I am a grad student in EE and I only feel like I'm just starting to scratch the surface of my field (IC design), and am nowhere near being able to create some technological breakthrough that no one else has thought of yet. Heck, I'm still learning how the current stuff works.

I'm not attacking your ideas or anything, I'm just curious as to how someone with no engineering background can have these great ideas that supposedly no one else has ever thought of.
The best idea doesn't require any knowledge. You simply see a need and think of how best to fill it. I had some of my best ideas when I had very little education, as this allowed me to see problems in ways that educated people didn't see them. When you 'learn' something, you tend to look at it in a more systematic way and it becomes harder to think outside the box. This is why now I tend to get bogged down if I work on a problem for too long. If I don't see a solution right away, it won't necessarily come to me. Someone else who has no background knowledge might walk up and immediately say 'why don't you try this?' and it could be the perfect solution.

edit: I should add that I see the value of education as giving a framework for solving the largest possible set of problems in your particular area. For example, there are many problems that I can solve now that a non-engineer/scientist would never be able to even consider. However, the tradeoff is that I have trained my mind to think like an engineer so I might miss solutions that a physicist, chemist, or high school dropout will see easily.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: Special K
I'm kind of interested in what kind of ideas you have, because I am a grad student in EE and I only feel like I'm just starting to scratch the surface of my field (IC design), and am nowhere near being able to create some technological breakthrough that no one else has thought of yet. Heck, I'm still learning how the current stuff works.

I'm not attacking your ideas or anything, I'm just curious as to how someone with no engineering background can have these great ideas that supposedly no one else has ever thought of.
The best idea doesn't require any knowledge. You simply see a need and think of how best to fill it. I had some of my best ideas when I had very little education, as this allowed me to see problems in ways that educated people didn't see them. When you 'learn' something, you tend to look at it in a more systematic way and it becomes harder to think outside the box. This is why now I tend to get bogged down if I work on a problem for too long. If I don't see a solution right away, it won't necessarily come to me. Someone else who has no background knowledge might walk up and immediately say 'why don't you try this?' and it could be the perfect solution.

edit: I should add that I see the value of education as giving a framework for solving the largest possible set of problems in your particular area. For example, there are many problems that I can solve now that a non-engineer/scientist would never be able to even consider. However, the tradeoff is that I have trained my mind to think like an engineer so I might miss solutions that a physicist, chemist, or high school dropout will see easily.

After posting I thought about it some more and came up with another realization - not every successful invention is necessarily a technical or engineering achievement, even if the products themselves require an engineer to design.

The first example that came to mind was the George Foreman grill - what I have read on them indicates that they were a success from a business standpoint. I own one and I even think it was a good idea. However the engineer in me looks at the thing and realizes that from a technical standpoint, there is nothing special or groundbreaking in a George Foreman grill. Someone who has taken 1 or 2 circuits classes could probably design all the circuitry involved. Nevertheless, the product was a success and I'm sure an engineer had a hand in the design.

I guess I was initially skeptical because in my field, I find it unlikely that someone who is not very knowledgeable in the field is going to be capable of making any significant contribution to it. For example - what is the best way to reduce leakage power in modern microprocessors without sacrificing too much performance? This is a hot topic in next-gen IC design, yet I don't think anyone without the necessary background is going to be capable of making the next big leakage-power reduction technique or design.
 

Gannon

Senior member
Jul 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: Special K
I'm kind of interested in what kind of ideas you have, because I am a grad student in EE and I only feel like I'm just starting to scratch the surface of my field (IC design), and am nowhere near being able to create some technological breakthrough that no one else has thought of yet. Heck, I'm still learning how the current stuff works.

I'm not attacking your ideas or anything, I'm just curious as to how someone with no engineering background can have these great ideas that supposedly no one else has ever thought of.

My mind speaks and thinks in visual geometry which I convert along an axis of translation to word metaphors, my axis of math conversion is from visual geometric space to word metaphors and not symbolic decimal systems we use.

Remember albert Einsteins thought experiments? He used his imagination to imagine and relate simple concepts to complex problems (i.e. like a bowling ball following the path of a perturbed flat surface) or what it would be like riding a rocket at the speed of light, etc. He said imagination was key in doing science, being able to see things from new angles and perspectives BEYOND the mathematics. Remember that math is just symbolic expression of what we see in the world, its a powerful tool used to measure things. But ultimately ideas are born of frustration of someone seeing something from a new angle, and having an yet-unrealized conception on things. All human minds do not work, think or operate in the same mannner, they specialize, like say one persons mind is like a Geforce 8800, anothers is like a Core 2 duo, still another is like an audio DSP or embedded chip that specializes in different tasks.

We have to remember that our minds are exposed to arbitrary (someone elses invented) system of doing calculations, you could easily come up with better math notations, hell you could change numbers from the base 10 decimal system notation we use and use new notation based on geometric shapes and boolean logic.

Go find the startrek the next generation episode if you have time and are interested. Season: 2 Episode: 5 DVD Disc: 2, the Episode is called Loud as a Whisper.

A deaf mediator communicates through a Chorus. In the star trek episode, Riva cannot talk, and two other people act as nodes of his mind (like parts in a machine) I think human beings have yet to realize that minds specialize in computational domains and they are not always in the traditional decimal symbolic form, in other words if we had a computer that could read my minds visual images and convert them to calculus we would see enormously complex calculations and abilties that are "locked up" inside peoples heads in our cultures but they can not express in "decimal point" mathematics.

For instance I can see things in 3D geometry, perform complex calculations on shapes, morph them in real time inside my minds eye, but I could not convert them to symbolic math. I could draw them very roughly using 3D Studio max or some other 3D package but the tools are not easy enough (intuitive enough) to use to create the shapes fast enough, I see complex fractal vortices and extrusions. I can take a fractal image, perform a boolean flattening operation on it, and perturb it into complex geometric shapes. I don't have to "do calculus" my mind does very complex calc on its own in terms of 3D geometry in which I don't have to use symbols "my mind just does it". I also just know how concepts are related without having to know or go through entire courses, my mind can stick them together.

So just remember our minds are DOING complex MATH, they are just not expressed in decimal notation. My math is expressed in visual form of geometry, colors and lines, and not decimal symbolic space.

Think of it as translation vectors between symbol spaces, and inventing new "functional sets" in mathematics. In set theory you have stuff like A U B, I do that kind of stuff on concepts and shapes automatically without having to go through rigorous decimal calculations.

Next is conceptualization, Inventions are born of frustrations and needs. The mind puts together ideas automatically over time when you use or do something long enough your mind is calculating efficiency vectors (plotting new paths about what needs to merge/thrown away, "widdled down" or invented.

Every persons mind is a fractal growth algorithm, with algorithms built on top of algorithms and grown from previous ones. Over time depending on what they've read and the data they've been exposed to.

There are savants in the world who just "know things" without having to think about them, the mind is not a static computational device, it rewires itself and re-specializes itself for different tasks and computation over time depending on the data its been exposed to.

Google Daniel tammet. Or better yet watch the video of him below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbASOcqc1Ss
 

Gannon

Senior member
Jul 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: Special K

After posting I thought about it some more and came up with another realization - not every successful invention is necessarily a technical or engineering achievement, even if the products themselves require an engineer to design.

Note: my CAPS are not for yelling they are for emphasis (and bad habit of mine!), its more of a shortcut then typing the bold code.. heh.

Remember that the engineers real goal is making tools that do not frustrate someone trying to solve their own problems... the goals are to make things that:

1) Are widely usable as possible and performs functions that are indispensable (to the said person), from a 5 year old child to a 70 year old grandfather (or mother)

2) That he'd want to use the tool and be able to get as much indispensable functionality out of it if he was NOT an engineer. (i.e. not "dumbed down", to think, how do I make these complex functions accessible to a person who NEEDS to use my creation for its function, but does not have complex educational background or did not design it?)

3) Make complex breakthroughs, but make it so that ANYONE can use your complex breakthrough, you engineer Translation vectors, you basically do a combinatorial search to see if you can translate some of the core functions and make them usable and understandable to the "common man". You want a wide market because... No money = No resources to keep the invention feedback process going (circuitous loop).

4) Remember the axis of translation vector is probably the most important inventive aspect of any invention. The interface is critical. Just look at windows and linux. When computers moved from memorizing command line functions to the Graphics user interface with the mouse, the response (and financial rewards) were enormous. All because someone invented a simple pointing device, and said "hey why can't we just have a little hand that can grab 2D objects on a piece of paper and move them around, why can't we havea "virtual paper" interface?

Early computers were hard to use even for computer scientists, and what did they do? They saw a need for creating an interface (Machine TO human translation bidirectional vector).

This is the KEY thing in my mind that all engineers should aspire to, sure make complex breakthroughs, but also make breakthroughs in the most important aspect: the human interfaces.

Look at how bad Personal computing design is right now. When I build a computer from scratch and have to hook up tiny wires to little nodes on the board, there should just be one damn standard or very easy converters when standards change. I have so many frustrations about how bad computer case design is and where the locations of things are placed. I am a tinkerer by heart, and even I can see all the "cost cutting" (read: frustrating cost cutting versus sound design choices). They may save a company a few bucks, but at the cost of good-easy-to-put-together designs.

Just look at the PCI-E graphics tabs on motherboards, the guys who designed those tabs should be flogged. Sure "most" computer users will not be switching video cards in and out of their system, but there are many millions of tinkerers in the world, who break those little tabs very easily taking things in and out.

Next is the location and connection points of of the power, sound and reset switches, the interface for these hasn't changed in YEARS. ASUS after probably 15 years of computer design added a little "extension bracket" with labels to make it slightly less frustrating (i.e. time consuming) to figure out which pins were power, sound, etc. After 20 years, the most simplest and basic interface of a motherboard is in the engineering dark ages!

There is such a thing as having TOO MANY good inventions that all do the same thing or looking at it from a "cost only" perspective, versus sound design. There are probably 50 different types of hammers, wrenches, vice grips, pliers out there that all do similar things and some are more specialized (because the need was there too invent it).

The first example that came to mind was the George Foreman grill - what I have read on them indicates that they were a success from a business standpoint.

The problem engineers have is that they are divorced from peoples desires, people buy what they DESIRE, not the design fantasies of what gets an engineer excited. Engineers have to temper their dreams with the reality of creating a self-sustaining feedback loop. They can work on their dreams, it just may never be realized within their lifetime. Many great breakthroughs built upon "tiny" building blocks that others spent their entire life building because they saw the need, had the interest, or saw that it was important.

I guess I was initially skeptical because in my field, I find it unlikely that someone who is not very knowledgeable in the field is going to be capable of making any significant contribution to it.

The problem is in our society, school is designed to churn out followers, not thinkers and leaders, who are...

1) Self motivated and self actualized (directed)
2) Infinitely curious even if they "do not understand math" or whatever, they don't let anyone limit them (tell them they cant understand because they haven't gone through some academic obstacle course... lol) just because they don't understand something in the way other people do or do not understand something perfectly

You have to realize that even our math system is only ONE of many ways to "do" mathematics. I've been brewing ideas in my head of creating 3D geometric or 2D isometric mathematical notation because decimal numeric pictographic symbols we use such as 1-2-3-4-5 are descriptions of real world 3D things, but they are trapped by symbolic terrorists that are the mathematicians.

Our base 10 decimal notation is only one of many ways to represent numbers and calculations there are superior methods to do math that have not even yet been developed. I know because in school, I struggled with the symbolic manipulation of symbolic math concepts because I could not visualize them in 3D because of the way the information was presented, it took me years to figure that it wasn't me that was entirely wrong... I realized that I am a highly mathematical person, But my mind does calculus, and math for me in visual memory space only which I cannot translate to symbolic decimal notation. I express math in pictures, and geometry, not in symbols like "1, 2, 3, 4 ,5".

I "see" math and understand it from visual-conceptual angle, not symbolic decimal notation of the decimal numeral system.

 

HVAC

Member
May 27, 2001
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Solidworks might be what you need (student edition is under $100). I personally cannot stand AutoCAD in any way, shape, or form.

Read this before you run off to some "inventor helper" company: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/documents/scamprevent.pdf

You might also look up such books as "Patent it Yourself" by David Pressman (ISBN-13:978-1-4133-0516-6 ISBN-10:1-4133-0516-4)
It is written by a patent attorney and targeted at advising the lay-inventor about the process and patentability issues of inventions.