Internal USB extension cable

[The111]

It took me forever to find, but I finally found this product.

http://www.frozencpu.com/produ...Cable.html?tl=g2c36s98

However, I've tried it on two motherboards now, and it doesn't work. I've tried extending two different connections... one just a regular front panel USB connection, and the other a 5.25" bay with card reader. I had to remove one of the 10 pins to make it work with a standard 9-pin mobo USB header.

Any ideas why it doesn't work? The (poor) reviews on the site indicate it could be due to lack of shielding.

Anybody know of a product that DOES work?

 

[PottedMeat]

Try getting rid of the twists and making sure the pinouts on one end match the pinouts on the other. The motherboard may not have the same pinout as the case. D+ to D+, D- to D-, +5 to +5, GND to GND.

Seems like the supplier had a load of 1 pair red and black twisted cable and 10 pin sockets - lazy design.

 

[mpilchfamily]

Make sure you have it oriented the right way so that pin one on the connectors are matching up right on the motherboard siade as well as the Case side. If it is then the only problem should be in the wire iteself. If the wire is good and its attached ot the connectors correctly there is no reason why it shouldn't work. The twisting of the wire should have no effect on it at all.

 

[The111]

I actually had the same thing happen 2 months ago with an identical looking cable from a different supplier. I removed all the twists on that one, mainly to make absolutely each pin was going where it should be. Same result.

One thing I forgot to mention, sometimes the device WOULD be detected by Windows, and by the right name, but the "new device detected" dialog would never go away, or the device would "fail to install" even though it was actually already installed fine before adding the extension.

 

[Synomenon]

Crap, just ordered two of those extension cables from FrozenCPU to extend the wires on this:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=170-2876


Anyone know a place that sells USB header extension cables that actually work?

 

[The111]

Well, first off since you already ordered them try them out and see what happens. FrozenCPU told me they thought it was a power problem for me, the device that I was extending (front panel cardreader) needed more power than the extension could carry. They said in the future they are going to order beefier wires, and for now they issued me a store credit for the money I already spent, which was nice.

I made a similar post on EVGA forums and one of the responders said he got extensions here that worked.
http://www.frontx.com/store/order_a.html

Good luck.

 

[Synomenon]

Got the cable yesterday. Didn't work. Made sure the pins on both ends matched up w/ what they were plugging into.

 

[Colt45]

should be able to lift the plastic flaps and rearrange the wire, so it works.. if you're bored.

 

[Synomenon]

That's what I did. I re-arranged some of the wires to make sure they matched the header on the motherboard and the wires coming off of this:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=170-2876

Everything I plugged into the USB ports worked, but once I added this extension, nothing would work consistently. Would get messages from the taskbar about the devices not being recognized after the device was just working when plugged into a different port or to one of the ports on the quad-port bracket (w/o the extension hooked up to it).


Edit:
This is the pinout for the 2x5 connectors at the end of each cable (two cables going to each 2x5 connector) coming from the quad USB bracket:

http://www.frontx.com/cpx108_2p3.gif

It's like pictured in the link, EXCEPT for the red / +5V wires and black S-GND wires.

In each of the 2x5 connectors, the red / +5V wire for each port share a pin and go into the same spot and there is no black S-GND wire.


I found this extension:
http://www.frozencpu.com/produ...le_-_400mm_PUSB04.html


It's cheaper, but is only 4-pin on each wire. Think this would work w/ my quad USB bracket?

 

[piasabird]

Maybe you have to turn it on in the BIOS.

 

[Paperdoc]

Look at any standard "external" USB cable and you'll see there is a shield outside the signal lines. This does two things: prevents outside electrical noise from entering the signal lines, AND limits the signals in those lines from broadcasting outside the cable. Now, one of the electrically noisiest environments is INSIDE your computer case. OP is having trouble with a cable that has NO noise shielding at all! (And no, twisted pairs is not good enough for a noisy environment.) No wonder it does not work well. In the past when I needed to connect a front panel connector to the mobo, I've bought a short USB cable (or IEEE 1394 as appropriate) and adapted one end to fit the available connector. That way you get a shielded cable that is somewhat noise-resistant.

 

[nineball9]

Originally posted by: The111

Anybody know of a product that DOES work?

Try a powered hub. I've got a PC with an external 7-port powered hub and an internal 6-port (4 USB, 2 Firewire) powered hub. Powered internal hub. There are other internal models on the market. This one is powered which really helps and the cables are shielded. I just plugged them in to the PC's rear USB & 1394 ports.

I keep 1 mouse and 1 keyboard plugged in to the mobo's USB ports. Most everything else I plug in to a powered hub.

Good luck though!

 

[Synomenon]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe you have to turn it on in the BIOS.

You can't turn USB on or off in my BIOS. You can only change operating speeds.

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
Look at any standard "external" USB cable and you'll see there is a shield outside the signal lines. This does two things: prevents outside electrical noise from entering the signal lines, AND limits the signals in those lines from broadcasting outside the cable. Now, one of the electrically noisiest environments is INSIDE your computer case

I just got a four-pin USB extension cable:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8784


It has all the wires except for the s-gnd. Looks like it works. Should I buy these:

http://www.performance-pcs.com...info&products_id=23604

http://www.performance-pcs.com..._info&products_id=1740


and plug into the 5th pin on the USB header and make it act like the s-gnd / shield?

Originally posted by: nineball9

Originally posted by: The111

Anybody know of a product that DOES work?

Try a powered hub.

Not all USB peripherals work well w/ hubs. I have a webcam and a printer / scanner / fax combo that won't work with any USB2.0 hub I've tried.

 

[Paperdoc]

That first item, the 4-pin extension cable, looks OK, and you say that it works. On the mobo header, most look like a 10-pin (2 x 5) layout with one (#10) missing. On those, pins 1, 3, 5 and 7 are for one USB port, and 2, 4, 6 and 8 are for the other. #9 is the shield ground for the cable. And note that the shield ground should be connected only at one end of the cable, so a regular cable will not have a connection to shield ground at the more distant end that connects to the front panel device.

In the case of the 4-pin cables you just showed, it actually looks like two 4-pin cables side by side. On each, the female connector that plugs into the mobo port does not have a fifth pin dedicated to shield ground, and the cable connects only to pins 1-7 (or 2-8). But each MAY have a shield anyway, connected to pin 7 (or 8) which actually is a ground connection. That could be why this cable set works for you whereas the original (which obviously had no shield) did not.

Since you have something that works and there is a reasonable explanation for why it's good, don't bother trying to modify further.

 

[Synomenon]

Thanks Paperdoc. You're correct they're simply 1x4-pin USB extension cables zip tied together. They do however work. Been using them for the past two days w/o any problems. They're cheaper than the original extension I tried to use so that's a plus.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: nineball9

Originally posted by: The111

Anybody know of a product that DOES work?

Try a powered hub. I've got a PC with an external 7-port powered hub and an internal 6-port (4 USB, 2 Firewire) powered hub. Powered internal hub. There are other internal models on the market. This one is powered which really helps and the cables are shielded. I just plugged them in to the PC's rear USB & 1394 ports.

I keep 1 mouse and 1 keyboard plugged in to the mobo's USB ports. Most everything else I plug in to a powered hub.

Good luck though!

Thanks, but how is that going to help me with my front panel multi card reader? It needs an internal USB header.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
Thanks Paperdoc. You're correct they're simply 1x4-pin USB extension cables zip tied together. They do however work. Been using them for the past two days w/o any problems. They're cheaper than the original extension I tried to use so that's a plus.

So your 9th pin (ground I think?) is just unattached?

 

[Synomenon]

Yup. The 9th pin isn't attached to anything.

 

[Paperdoc]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi
Yup. The 9th pin isn't attached to anything.

As I said earlier, it is possible the grounding of the shield is done, but not quite the usual way, IF there is a shield at all in the short cable. It could be connected to pins 7 or 8, which are really supposed to be Ground for the DC voltage supplies on pins 1 and 2. Of course, that means that any front panel device or USB connector fed by this cable does not have a Ground "supply" to it via the cable. But as long as that front-panel device has its chassis and its USB output connector shell as a metal component in contact with the chassis ground, then the connector's requirements for a Ground are met.

I must admit, though, that from the picture it does not look like there is any connection to a shield at either end of the short cables. Maybe there is no shield, or maybe it is unconnected.

For OP he / she has a working solution and there's no real need to pursue. For others, though, I'd prefer a better solution that provides a full 9 lines plus grounded shield in a cable long enough to reach the front panel from an inconveniently-placed mobo header. The 9 lines (for 2 USB ports) are: 2 x (+5vdc, Signal +, Signal -, DC Ground) plus chassis Ground.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: PaperdocFor OP he / she has a working solution and there's no real need to pursue. For others, though, I'd prefer a better solution that provides a full 9 lines plus grounded shield in a cable long enough to reach the front panel from an inconveniently-placed mobo header. The 9 lines (for 2 USB ports) are: 2 x (+5vdc, Signal +, Signal -, DC Ground) plus chassis Ground.

Well, I'm OP and my working solution is that my new x58 mobo has closer headers. ;-)

The 4-pin cables sound like a "working solution" too if I were to need an extension again. But I agree I'd like a cable with all 9 pins and ground. Since the 9-pin connection is standard on all motherboards and devices I've ever seen, I don't understand why an extension doesn't exist, and why all these weird 4 pin extensions do exist (I've never seen a 4-pin device or mobo header in my last several years of building PC's).

FrozenCPU did tell me they'd try to fix the problem in their next batch of 9-pin cables (and they gave me a store credit) so I'll keep my eye on that item.

 

[Eureka]

An extension simply should be a long wire with ends to connect pins on both side. Are you sure that the case matched your old mobo in the first place?

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: cevilgenius
An extension simply should be a long wire with ends to connect pins on both side. Are you sure that the case matched your old mobo in the first place?

Yes, that is what I thought too.

I'm positive the pins matched up, this question has been asked and answered before. The item had numerous similar reviews on the frozencpu site (as also stated in OP). It's not my imagination, trust me. ;-) Even the mfr has admitted it may have a problem.

The cable actually would reach with my old mobo, it just wouldn't reach with the routing I wanted (cable management). So yes, I tested it without the extension, and it worked. Multiple devices (one was the case front panel USB, the other was an addon 5.25" cardreader) worked without the extension, those same multiple devices would not work without it.