Interesting : Who is the real evil ?

[William Gaatjes]

Why are certain people in the middle east who Condemn and blame Israel from everything now not actively speaking out against the violence of the regimes against the protesters in the middle east hot zones ? Where are those voices now to condemn the regimes for killing their own citizens ?

I have learned that the Syrian regime from Assad tried to create a distraction by motivating Palestinian refugees to attack the border of Israel.

Is this true ?

 

[Macamus Prime]

Wait,... someone on these boards is actually concerned over Muslims being killed?

Oh,... wait, it was brought up to bitch about those who criticize Israel. Sorry, I thought there for a second you actually cared and not used this to "pwn" the anti-semites and terrorists on these forums.

My bad.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Wait,... someone on these boards is actually concerned over Muslims being killed?

Oh,... wait, it was brought up to bitch about those who criticize Israel. Sorry, I thought there for a second you actually cared and not used this to "pwn" the anti-semites and terrorists on these forums.

My bad.

This clearly explains more about you then about me.
I am actually concerned for the people who want freedom and peace.
This for me also means people who have the Islamic faith. The religion is not important. The view on life is. The reason i ask these questions is that i just recently read an article that frustrated me if what the researcher is writing is true. It seems that all those Islamic scholars who constantly keep blaming Israel for everything under the sun and the moon are now nowhere to be heard or seen with the exception of a view. Why are the anti regime protesters not helped ? Why is it that the west needs to help out once again to give people a free choice of living ? Where is the aid of all those oil nations ? Where is the public condemning now ?

On a side note :
You write about Israel, That country cannot do anything. Because everything they will do is seen as an attack. The only thing they can and should do now IMHO is to make an offer of peace.

To show that for some regimes nothing has changed since long lost times. It is not surprising that an old pervert such as berlusconi has ties with the people who live very strange lifestyles. The same people who now kill their own citizens while in the process try to divert the attention of their lies...
It is not for nothing these people are having difficulties now.

 

[Lemon law]

Turkey is not the only Islamic nation condemning the actions of Assad. And quite many Muslim voices all over the planet also calling on Assad to resign yesterday.

But unlike Libya, the Arab League has not yet acted, so other nations are still unwilling to commit the military assets to combat Assad. The other thing to say is that while Syria has been shooting its citizens for a few months, it was on a much smaller scale than it now is. So I would expect some intervention soon, probably from Turkey. As it is a few nations are offering Assad a place to exile too, but if he refuses to go his military might think twice about trying to defend him, because its the Syrian army who will lose lives.

As for Assad using Palestinians on the Golan for a distraction, we can't go inside Assad's head to prove or disprove the assertion. And Netanyuhu has a habit of accusing all opponents of all kinds of things so this is Netanyuhu par for the course. But if I had to make a guess, I would, long odds say Assad did try to use it as a distraction. Sadly the Israelis over reacted and used deadly force against unarmed demonstrators. So no one emerges covered in glory. As both Assad and Israel prove lacking in humanity.

But if something does not stop Assad, he will keep killing and killing his own people without limit just to stay and power.

 

[JS80]

This clearly explains more about you then about me.
I am actually concerned for the people who want freedom and peace.
This for me also means people who have the Islamic faith. The religion is not important. The view on life is. The reason i ask these questions is that i just recently read an article that frustrated me if what the researcher is writing is true. It seems that all those Islamic scholars who constantly keep blaming Israel for everything under the sun and the moon are now nowhere to be heard or seen with the exception of a view. Why are the anti regime protesters not helped ? Why is it that the west needs to help out once again to give people a free choice of living ? Where is the aid of all those oil nations ? Where is the public condemning now ?

On a side note :
You write about Israel, That country cannot do anything. Because everything they will do is seen as an attack. The only thing they can and should do now IMHO is to make an offer of peace.

To show that for some regimes nothing has changed since long lost times. It is not surprising that an old pervert such as berlusconi has ties with the people who live very strange lifestyles. The same people who now kill their own citizens while in the process try to divert the attention of their lies...
It is not for nothing these people are having difficulties now.

Faulty assumption bolded.

 

[piasabird]

If it is a trade-off between the old repressive regime and a new repressive regime, then why should we bother? Then the terrorists take over and all the Christian or non-muslim churches are all on fire and people are running for their lives. So do we have an imporvement or just another flavor of muslim militancy?

One group of terrorists are as good as the next group.

Usually the new terrorists are more bloodthursty than the last.

 

[kylebisme]

Why are certain people...

If you want a question about "certain people" answered, you'll need to name those people.

I have learned that the Syrian regime from Assad tried to create a distraction by motivating Palestinian refugees to attack the border of Israel.

Is this true ?

I've seen no reason to believe that is true.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Why are certain people in the middle east who Condemn and blame Israel from everything now not actively speaking out against the violence of the regimes against the protesters in the middle east hot zones ? Where are those voices now to condemn the regimes for killing their own citizens ?

I have learned that the Syrian regime from Assad tried to create a distraction by motivating Palestinian refugees to attack the border of Israel.

Is this true ?

Yup, it's true.

Does it surprise you?

And yet again you'll hear people yelling about those killed because they attacked armed forces defending a border, something which is obvious anywhere else in the world.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Turkey is not the only Islamic nation condemning the actions of Assad. And quite many Muslim voices all over the planet also calling on Assad to resign yesterday.

But unlike Libya, the Arab League has not yet acted, so other nations are still unwilling to commit the military assets to combat Assad. The other thing to say is that while Syria has been shooting its citizens for a few months, it was on a much smaller scale than it now is. So I would expect some intervention soon, probably from Turkey. As it is a few nations are offering Assad a place to exile too, but if he refuses to go his military might think twice about trying to defend him, because its the Syrian army who will lose lives.

As for Assad using Palestinians on the Golan for a distraction, we can't go inside Assad's head to prove or disprove the assertion. And Netanyuhu has a habit of accusing all opponents of all kinds of things so this is Netanyuhu par for the course. But if I had to make a guess, I would, long odds say Assad did try to use it as a distraction. Sadly the Israelis over reacted and used deadly force against unarmed demonstrators. So no one emerges covered in glory. As both Assad and Israel prove lacking in humanity.

But if something does not stop Assad, he will keep killing and killing his own people without limit just to stay and power.

Turkey is going to be lost as a democracy in less than a decade, the support for the anti-democratic AKD who is now responsible for gassing Kurds has shown who's boss of that nation.

Of course, you don't care about the Kurds though, except when you can use their rights against any democratic nation.

 

[kylebisme]

Yup, it's true.

How do you figure?

And yet again you'll hear people yelling about those killed because they attacked armed forces defending a border, something which is obvious anywhere else in the world.

The reports I've seen, such as this one from CBS, don't mention any attacks on armed forces, but rather armed forces attacking unarmed protesters, something which is obviously wrong anywhere in the world.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

How do you figure?


The reports I've seen, such as this one from CBS, don't mention any attacks on armed forces, but rather armed forces attacking unarmed protesters, something which is obviously wrong anywhere in the world.

I know you hate all Jews and wants a new holocaust, i know you think the Jews were behind 9/11....

Do you actually think i'll have a discussion with you? LOL, you are a loony.

 

[kylebisme]

I don't hate anyone, don't want death for anyone, and figure the people behind 9/11 were mostly of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant stock much like myself. That said, I suspected you'd defend your instability to substantiate the claims I asked you about by launching into a slanderous personal attack on me like you just did.

 

[woolfe9999]

How do you figure?


The reports I've seen, such as this one from CBS, don't mention any attacks on armed forces, but rather armed forces attacking unarmed protesters, something which is obviously wrong anywhere in the world.

That is fenced border area with a nation that has openly declared itself an enemy. For decades Syria has kept the border quiet then all the sudden when the regime is openly killing its population and getting negative press for it, thousands of protestors are storming the border, cutting through fences and holing up in trenchs on the other side. Sure, that is entirely a coincidence, not at all a planned distraction on the part of the Syrian government. You actually read your own article and you claim that you are aware of no evidence of any planned distraction? Sure there's no evidence at all, if you believe in fantastical coincidences.

As for the cause of the deaths (and likely the number), that appears to be in dispute.

The army claimed that protesters threw firebombs that ignited land mines on the Syrian side of the border. There was no confirmation from the Syrian side.

But you knew that anyway.

- wolf

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I don't hate anyone, don't want death for anyone, and figure the people behind 9/11 were mostly of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant stock much like myself. That said, I suspected you'd defend your instability to substantiate the claims I asked you about by launching into a slanderous personal attack on me like you just did.

Son, i don't want you to do anything but bleed.

 

[kylebisme]

You actually read your own article and you claim that you are aware of no evidence of any planned distraction?

Yeah, I see Israel has claimed as much, but I've yet to evidence to back up the claim. It seems you don't know of any actual evidence to back the claim up either, eh?

The army claimed that protesters threw firebombs that ignited land mines on the Syrian side of the border. There was no confirmation from the Syrian side.

So, supposed clearing of Syrian landmines is what you are considering an attack on Israeli solders here?

 

[Doboji]

Yeah, I see Israel has claimed as much, but I've yet to evidence to back up the claim. It seems you don't know of any actual evidence to back the claim up either, eh?


So, supposed clearing of Syrian landmines is what you are considering an attack on Israeli solders here?

I always read threads where I see you posting, you're so looney it makes me giggle.

 

[Lemon law]

Son, i don't want you to do anything but bleed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why, you JOS, are such a liability to Nato and Great Britain. All you are is an ego maniac and a legend in only your own mind.

Wise soldier learn that they must seek allies and consensus to win, but you think raw power is always the solution. As we see, the JOS solution is going over like a lead balloon for 10 years running in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And to get back to the original thread question of who is the real evil, the simple answer may be the the policies of the Taliban, but at the end of the day, its may be JOS type stupidity that insures the Taliban will end up winning because JOS and his ilk are even more morally degenerate than the Taliban.

But to make it more clear on what the real evil is, its always those that think there is always a their side win and the other side must therefore lose. Which almost never works in the entire history of the world long term.

When wiser people search out not only what is fair, but seek out a solution where both all sides win.

Its the difference between being a pig or being a true human being.

 

[blackangst1]

Reminds me of the saying "The only difference between a patriot and a terrorist is the side youre on."

 

[William Gaatjes]

Faulty assumption bolded.

That is what you think. You only see news. I meet everyday a lot of people who just happen to have the Islamic faith. Most of them are loyal to their faith but are also westernized. Most of these people have never committed any crime, are loyal tax payers and carry no anger towards any one. As with any other religious person they openly talk about their faith but do not force people into it. If you behave respectful and honest, religion is not a separating force. Most Muslims, atheists, Christians, Jews, Hindu's or Buddhists have a simple view on life. Pay the bills, pay tax, save money for the future , have children, own a house and a car, send the children one day to college to improve upon life, help out people in need, live in peace.
This means that these people will not side with extremists but will fight for the freedom they are used to experience in the western world. For example many women wear a scarf that shows hair but also show modern clothes. Meaning clothing that extremist would kill them for. For us in the west this is pretty decent and for most people who are religious this is still very conservative. For religious extremists this is already to much. It is only Anti-social people (Religious extremists and atheist extremists) that cause problems.

Some examples that you might see women in (with or without scarf) and still pretty conservative but very decent :

On work :

More casual :

Of course there are also people around who are more conservative but these are the older people or people who just migrated to the west from a very conservative(in religious context) environment. It takes time and devotion by people who are already used to the western way of life.

Of course some people go back to more traditional ways of life but that is because they fear for the lack of class that slowly crawls into the western world and revert to traditional views (This also happens in the US and in Europe as well with Christians and Jews). What is the reference point ? That is the question. It is not a constant it slowly slides along with what is perceived as classy and decent in society.

It actually happened to me that one day in the train some young woman was wearing a coat, stockings with boots and no skirt or pants. It was more a mixture between hot pants and a string she was wearing. And she was wondering why men looked so strange and horny at her and women looked at her in a disapproving way. Finally she called a friend complaining on the phone that everybody was looking at her. What did she expect. It is the same as some guy needs attention and being an attention whore by dressing up as Mr Manhattan (from the watchmen) with a huge giant dildo attached to his crotch.

 

[JumBie]

If it is a trade-off between the old repressive regime and a new repressive regime, then why should we bother? Then the terrorists take over and all the Christian or non-muslim churches are all on fire and people are running for their lives. So do we have an imporvement or just another flavor of muslim militancy?

One group of terrorists are as good as the next group.

Usually the new terrorists are more bloodthursty than the last.

Careful with that word, you seem to be very misinformed to call a government regime a terrorist organization. Regardless of the crimes against humanity, it is a government entity like all other countries in the west and the east, and should be labeled as such.

Syria is being destabilized as we speak, it is currently the "rebels" against the Assad regime, the ultimate goal of the people is to overthrow assad and bring peace and stability back to the country, a very complicated goal especially in the middle east.

 

[Atreus21]

Son, i don't want you to do anything but bleed.

ouch.

 

[Oric]

Turkey is going to be lost as a democracy in less than a decade, the support for the anti-democratic AKD who is now responsible for gassing Kurds has shown who's boss of that nation.

Of course, you don't care about the Kurds though, except when you can use their rights against any democratic nation.

I don't know which mistakes to correct but i will try

1. It was Saddam who gassed the Kurds, and it was Turkey who has opened its borders to more tthan 100,000+ Kurdish refugees in 1994

2. Turkey had its elections 3 days ago, Kurdish party hasnow 36 MP in the parliament up from 23 from 2007 elections. What kind of proof do you need other than a world class election ?

3. Turkish economy is quite strong and on the regional scale it has become a soft power, i understand that you may not like to see my country repair the mistakes of yours from world war I but sorry you are no longer the mastermind of the region

 

[shira]

Reminds me of the saying "The only difference between a patriot and a terrorist is the side youre on."

This is a pretty gross over-simplification. It's pretty clear that Israel tries to avoid harming civilians when going after it's enemies. Israel's terrorist enemies specifically target civilians.

 

[Anarchist420]

Careful with that word, you seem to be very misinformed to call a government regime a terrorist organization. Regardless of the crimes against humanity, it is a government entity like all other countries in the west and the east, and should be labeled as such.

Any government that allows, without unanimous consent of its legislature or member states, a national standing army during peacetime is terrorist.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I don't know which mistakes to correct but i will try

1. It was Saddam who gassed the Kurds, and it was Turkey who has opened its borders to more tthan 100,000+ Kurdish refugees in 1994

2. Turkey had its elections 3 days ago, Kurdish party hasnow 36 MP in the parliament up from 23 from 2007 elections. What kind of proof do you need other than a world class election ?

3. Turkish economy is quite strong and on the regional scale it has become a soft power, i understand that you may not like to see my country repair the mistakes of yours from world war I but sorry you are no longer the mastermind of the region

1. LOL, you don't think i already know about that? I'm talking about the gassing of the Kurds that was done two days ago while they were celebrating their biggest win ever in Turkey. I've read more than one report on it in the last days.

2. And absolutely NO influence what so ever and you know that.

3. It really isn't that strong, it's just better than the surrounding nations but none of this has anything to do with my point about AKD.

It's an anti-democratic Nationalistic party which thrives on former strenght of a now very divided nation.