Interesting to find not too much on design

[KIAman]

I find it interesting that the interwebs and anandtech programming have very little topics and threads on software (or system) design.

Is the design taken for granted? Is it too easy? Too hard? Where are all my architects?

 

[Markbnj]

Design is almost always given short shrift in corporate programming, at least. Once you have rough requirements management thinks all the work is done, and if you aren't making clicky noises on your keyboard at that point you get outsourced.

 

[degibson]

Depends on what you mean by 'system' and 'design'. There's plenty of papers out there on how large systems are designed, they're just a few cuts above the interweb.

I might be off base with respect to what you're looking for OP, but try goolging 'sosp'.

 

[KIAman]

Depends on what you mean by 'system' and 'design'. There's plenty of papers out there on how large systems are designed, they're just a few cuts above the interweb.

I might be off base with respect to what you're looking for OP, but try goolging 'sosp'.

I understand what you are saying but I should have been more clear in my OP. I'm surprised there aren't enthusiast forums specifically about the design process of softare. There some bits and pieces here and there regarding UI and Usability but not much forum discussion on design methodologies.

I would think designing software for pure performance or scalability or maintainability or even discussing topics such as development process, what model fits what general set of requirements, etc would be just as interesting as finding the quirks of something language/platform specific.

I'm curious if the people who participate in online forums (not just anandtech) are simply the types who enjoy being a code-monkey and the architects and designers stay away or if there are some other underlying reason.

 

[KIAman]

Design is almost always given short shrift in corporate programming, at least. Once you have rough requirements management thinks all the work is done, and if you aren't making clicky noises on your keyboard at that point you get outsourced.

It depends on the industry. A heavily regulated industry (medical, gambling, defense, government, etc.) will easily devote more resources to the planning and design which will later lead to a lengthy and thorough testing. Documentation and accountability is just as key as the actual deliverables.

I would say, in general, mobile and online application development might follow what you feel because of the high need for fast turnaround time and agile methods.

 

[Train]

There's definitely been a lot of discussion around papers released by Google detailing Big Table and Map Reduce, and even their IT practices.

Those systems are about as big an architecture as you will find.

 

[KIAman]

I guess what I'm really asking is if I were to launch a site focused on software analysis and design (rather than coding and debugging), would it have potential?

 

[Train]

I guess what I'm really asking is if I were to launch a site focused on software analysis and design (rather than coding and debugging), would it have potential?

The problem isn't a lack of a place to discuss the topics, there are already plenty of those (despite the majority of topics being "How do I do [task] in [lang/platform]?"

The problem is the higher level architecture discussions will always result in flame wars. I discuss architecture with people that I know or in person, preferably with a whiteboard nearby.

If you try to ask a serious architecture question in any of the hundreds of programmer populated communities out there, you'll inevitably get the "zomg you have no idea how much data I handle, MY way is the only way to do it! trust me I know what I'm talking about." or "dude my friend works on huge gubment databases and he said if he saw someone doing it your way he would laugh at them"

 

[Train]

But on second though, there have been a few islands of sanity that have survived while being more "big picture" focused. I'm not sure if they are still active, but the discussion boards attached to the old "Joel on Software" blog was pretty decent.

But anyways, back to your original question: "a site focused on software analysis and design (rather than coding and debugging), would it have potential?"

I dont want my above text to make me sound like a Debbie Downer. I would say it's 'possible', but wouldn't undertake something myself without a lot of further research. You may jsut need a sort of ranking, community upvoted type system to let the good stuff rise to the top and the cruft fade away. Perhaps even a strict "take your Q&A to another forum" policy. Don't be afraid to lock posts like a Nazi to enforce the main theme of the site.

 

[Train]

ok more, since you got me thinking of it....

Perhaps threaded discussions such as vBulletin is the wrong way to go. Here's an idea, center the discussions around actual prototype/sample systems or even real open source projects.

I'd like to see somethng like "Here is a repository of the Northwind application in web forms, here is the same app done in MVC, let's compare and contrast the two" let all the participants dive into the code bases, run performance tests, submit branches, etc. all the while keeping a productive discussion going on aroudn the whole process.

 

[Markbnj]

It depends on the industry. A heavily regulated industry (medical, gambling, defense, government, etc.) will easily devote more resources to the planning and design which will later lead to a lengthy and thorough testing. Documentation and accountability is just as key as the actual deliverables.

I would say, in general, mobile and online application development might follow what you feel because of the high need for fast turnaround time and agile methods.

Absolutely true, and in some milspec work, for example, it gets very formal.

 

[KentState]

Design is not something that people share openly outside their company. There are too many complexities involved and a huge risk of sharing important trade secrets. I know in the eCommerce space, there are things like Shop.org and trade magazines to gather new ideas.

There are also plenty of white papers published by companies like IBM, Microsoft and Oracle that give insight into the design of various systems.

I also believe that open source projects are probably the best thing suited for what you are describing. People having actual skin in the game is very important to discussions like design.