Interesting take on Kerry's military record

Wheezer

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Nov 2, 1999
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An Interesting Analysis of John Kerry

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

Fred Amerson - An Interesting Analysis on Kerry

This was written by a retired Rear Admiral. He begins by talking about Kerry ----

"I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command. Here are my problems and suspicions:
Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.
(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some daring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn't run and it couldn't return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight. Something is fishy.
Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.
I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildly inflated. And fishy."



 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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Interesting, but not too informative. Maybe Kerry did things a little different? If Kerry's actions were not as stated, why hasn't any of his crewmates said otherwise?
 

Perknose

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So, the smear begins. This guy obviously has an axe to grind, and convincing and fullly documented proof of John Kerry's bravery and integrity can be read at snopes, where the "urban legend" that John Kerry was anything but a genuine partriot and hero is totally debunked: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

The plain fact is, John Kerry, who had the resources and connections to do otherwise, chose to enlist and actually risk his life in actual combat for his country, the United States of America. Now, only if he were a less wooden speaker.

Trying to smear a guy who actually fought for his country totally disgusts me. It should disgust you as well.
 

Shad0hawK

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Originally posted by: Perknose
So, the smear begins. This guy obviously has an axe to grind, and convincing and fullly documented proof of John Kerry's bravery and integrity can be read at snopes, where the "urban legend" that John Kerry was anything but a genuine partriot and hero is totally debunked: <a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp">http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp</A>

The plain fact is, John Kerry, who had the resources and connections to do otherwise, chose to enlist and actually risk his life in actual combat for his country, the United States of America. Now, only if he were a less wooden speaker.

Trying to smear a guy who actually fought for his country totally disgusts me. It should disgust you as well.

benedict arnold was a brave decorated soldier too just like komrade kerry. in fact benedict arnold had more medals than kerry did.

kerry was nothing more than a buttkissing richboy who went on a medal hunt and became a turncoat soon as he got back stateside, as a former soldier myself if i ever meet this benedict arnold wannabe i will spit in his face for co-founding an organization that flew the flag of the enemy numerous occasions in time of war while others.

komrade kerry will not be getting many military votes, not from us here at Fort Hood anyway. we see through komrade kerry's BS...probobly a good reason for the dems to try and block the overseas votes of the military again like in 2000

ask the family of a POW-MIA if they will be voting for kerry...i DARE ya!

link
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,566
6,113
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Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: Perknose
So, the smear begins. This guy obviously has an axe to grind, and convincing and fullly documented proof of John Kerry's bravery and integrity can be read at snopes, where the "urban legend" that John Kerry was anything but a genuine partriot and hero is totally debunked: <a href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp">http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp</A>

The plain fact is, John Kerry, who had the resources and connections to do otherwise, chose to enlist and actually risk his life in actual combat for his country, the United States of America. Now, only if he were a less wooden speaker.

Trying to smear a guy who actually fought for his country totally disgusts me. It should disgust you as well.

benedict arnold was a brave decorated soldier too just like komrade kerry. in fact benedict arnold had more medals than kerry did.

kerry was nothing more than a buttkissing richboy who went on a medal hunt and became a turncoat soon as he got back stateside, as a former soldier myself if i ever meet this benedict arnold wannabe i will spit in his face for co-founding an organization that flew the flag of the enemy numerous occasions in time of war while others.

komrade kerry will not be getting many military votes, not from us here at Fort Hood anyway. we see through komrade kerry's BS...probobly a good reason for the dems to try and block the overseas votes of the military again like in 2000

ask the family of a POW-MIA if they will be voting for kerry...i DARE ya!

link

Oh noes you didn't! :Q

You need to familiarize yourself with Sampley.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
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ah, this is a repost, and once again without a source. for obvious reasons..the smear campaign begins..

kerry, and his father who was a test pilot and served over seas too have records that the chicken hawks only wish they had.

heres a better less biased take on his service, which i doubt you will read. http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml

Heroism, and growing concern about war

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 6/16/2003


he Christmas Eve truce of 1968 was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around John Forbes Kerry and his five-man crew on a 50-foot aluminum boat near Cambodia. ''Where is the enemy?'' a crewmate shouted.

In the distance, an elderly man was tending his water buffalo -- and serving as human cover for a dozen Viet Cong manning a machine-gun nest.

"Open fire; let's take 'em," Kerry ordered, according to his second-in-command, James Wasser of Illinois. Wasser blasted away with his M-60, hitting the old man, who slumped into the water, presumably dead. With a clear path to the enemy, the fusillade from Kerry's Navy boat, backed by a pair of other small vessels, silenced the machine-gun nest.

When it was over, the Viet Cong were dead, wounded, or on the run. A civilian apparently was killed, and two South Vietnamese allies who had alerted Kerry's crew to the enemy were either wounded or killed.

On the same night, Kerry and his crew had come within a half-inch of being killed by "friendly fire," when some South Vietnamese allies launched several rounds into the river to celebrate the holiday.

To top it off, Kerry said, he had gone several miles inside Cambodia, which theoretically was off limits, prompting Kerry to send a sarcastic message to his superiors that he was writing from the Navy's "most inland" unit.

Back at his base, a weary, disconsolate Kerry sat at his typewriter, as he often did, and poured out his grief. "You hope that they'll courtmartial you or something because that would make sense," Kerry typed that night. He would later recall using court-martial as "a joke," because nothing made sense to him -- the war policy, the deaths, and his presence in the middle of it all.

To his crew, Kerry was one of the most daring skippers in the US Navy, relentlessly and courageously engaging the enemy. But the battles and moral dilemmas were in shades of gray, and Kerry to this day wrestles with the scenes of death he commanded.

In an intense three months of combat following that Christmas Eve battle, Kerry often would go beyond his Navy orders and beach his boat, in one case chasing and killing a teenage Viet Cong enemy who wore only a loin cloth and carried a rocket launcher. Kerry's aggressiveness in combat caused a commanding officer to wonder whether he should be given a medal or court-martialed.

Kerry would watch in despair as a crewmate killed a boy who may or may not have been an innocent civilian. He would angrily challenge a military policy that risked the death of noncombatants. And he would try to escape the fate of five of his closest friends, all killed in combat.

Along with Kerry's unquestionable and repeated bravery, he also took an action that has received far less notice: He requested and was granted a transfer out of Vietnam six months before his combat tour was slated to end on the grounds that he had earned three Purple Hearts. None of his wounds was disabling; he said one cost him two days of service and the other two did not lead to any absence.

No period better captures the internal conflicts besetting John Kerry than Vietnam. He enlisted as a Navy officer candidate despite his criticisms as Yale's class orator of America's intervention in Southeast Asia. He would become a war hero, recipient of the Silver and Bronze stars, but would also become an antiwar leader, causing some former crewmates to feel he had betrayed them.

In an effort to understand a fuller picture of Kerry's combat in Vietnam, the Globe examined thousands of recently declassified Naval documents; interviewed sailors who served alongside Kerry; conducted four interviews with Kerry; and read some previously unreleased journal entries and letters selected by the senator.

A dangerous assignment






Kerry and the crew of PCF 94, a swift boat that saw heavy action on the narrow waterways of the Mekong Delta, south of Saigon, under Operation SEALORD. From left, Eugene Thorson, David Alston, Tom Belodeau, and Delbert Sandusky. (Globe Photo / Michael Medeiros)

Where Kerry served in Vietnam

Kerry initially thought about enlisting as a pilot. But his father, Richard Kerry - a test pilot who served in the Army Air Corps - warned him that if he flew in combat, he might lose his love of flying. So Kerry, who sought in so many ways to emulate John Fitzgerald Kennedy, took to the water, just as his idol served on a World War II patrol boat, the 109.

Kerry served two tours. For a relatively uneventful six months, from December 1967 to June 1968, he served in the electrical department aboard the USS Gridley, a guided-missile frigate that supported aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Tonkin and was far removed from combat.

"I didn't have any real feel for what the heck was going on [in the war]," Kerry has recalled. His ship returned to its Long Beach, Calif., port on June 6, 1968, the day that Robert F. Kennedy died from a gunshot wound he received on the previous night at a Los Angeles hotel. The antiwar protests were growing. But within five months Kerry was heading back to Vietnam, seeking to fulfill his officer commitment despite his growing misgivings about the war.

Kerry initially hoped to continue his service at a relatively safe distance from most fighting, securing an assignment as "swift boat" skipper. While the 50-foot swift boats cruised the Vietnamese coast a little closer to the action than the Gridley had come, they were still considered relatively safe.

"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

But two weeks after he arrived in Vietnam, the swift boat mission changed -- and Kerry went from having one of the safest assignments in the escalating conflict to one of the most dangerous. Under the newly launched Operation SEALORD, swift boats were charged with patrolling the narrow waterways of the Mekong Delta to draw fire and smoke out the enemy. Cruising inlets and coves and canals, swift boats were especially vulnerable targets.

Originally designed to ferry oil workers to ocean rigs, swift boats offered flimsy protection. Because bullets could easily penetrate the hull, sailors hung flak jackets over the sides. The boat's loud engine invited ambushes. Speed was its saving grace -- but that wasn't always an option in narrow, heavily mined canals.

The swift boat crew typically consisted of a college-educated skipper, such as Kerry, and five blue-collar sailors averaging 19 years old. The most vulnerable sailor sat in the "tub" -- a squat nest that rose above the pilot house -- and operated a pair of .50-caliber machine guns. Another gunner was in the rear. Kerry's mission was to wait until hidden Viet Cong guerrillas started shooting, then order his men to return fire.

Unofficially, Operation SEALORD was dubbed ZWI, for "Zumwalt's Wild Idea." Navy Admiral Elmo "Bud" Zumwalt was frustrated that the coastal patrols had failed to stop the infiltration of arms via the Mekong Delta waterways. Communist forces effectively controlled the river supply route because US forces weren't supposed to go into Cambodia, and the rivers of the Mekong Delta were considered too dangerous for American boats. When Zumwalt decorated an officer who took the extraordinary risk of running the rivers, Kerry took notice.

Under Zumwalt's command, swift boats would aggressively engage the enemy. Zumwalt, who died in 2000, calculated in his autobiography that these men under his command had a 75 percent chance of being killed or wounded during a typical year. (This wasn't just a statistical concern; one of the swift boat sailors was his son, Lieutenant Elmo Zumwalt III. )

Kerry experienced his first intense combat action on Dec. 2, 1968, when he "semi-volunteered for, was semi-drafted" for a risky covert mission in which he essentially was supposed to "flush out" the enemy, using a little Boston Whaler named "Batman." A larger backup craft was called "Robin."

Unfortunately, Robin had engine trouble, and Batman's exit was delayed until the boats could depart in unison. The Batman crew encountered some Viet Cong, engaged in a firefight, and Kerry was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart on his first day of serious action.

"It was not a very serious wound at all," recalled William Schachte, who oversaw the mission and went on to become a rear admiral.

Kerry commanded his first swift boat, No. 44, from December 1968 through January 1969, a period that is often overlooked because he did not receive any medals while serving on this craft. But he first learned to skipper on the 44, and he conducted the wrenching Christmas Eve mission in which the old man in the river was probably killed in the crossfire.

Kerry said in a recent interview that he didn't remember anything about the elderly man in the water, noting that he sometimes couldn't see all of the action. But Wasser, who says his memory of the event remains vivid, reminded Kerry about it when the pair met earlier this year and talked about the mission for the first time in many years. Wasser remains haunted by the image of the man being shot: "I don't even enjoy Christmas anymore," he said.

In the free fire zone

The possibility of killing innocent civilians haunted Kerry. With many of the South Vietnamese waterways in ''free fire zones'' - meaning that the US Navy was authorized to shoot anyone who was violating a curfew - the likelihood that innocent villagers could be killed was high.

One of Kerry's crewmates on swift boat No. 44 said such an event happened. Drew Whitlow of Arkansas said he was on patrol with Kerry when Whitlow spotted movement along the shore and yelled, "I'm going to fire!" The quiet river exploded in gunfire, with people on the shoreline dropping, dead or wounded, and no fire being returned.

Whitlow recalled the scene: "This is a free fire zone, I will fire, I will put rounds in, I'm doing my thing, I'm feeling Mr. Macho. But then when you get close, you see the expressions of the village people, people waving their arms, saying, `No, no, no! Wait a minute, hold this off.' I ended up putting a few down, and then I found out it was friendlies."

To make matters worse, a mortar round ricocheted back at the boat and wounded three crewmen.

Kerry, asked about Whitlow's account, said he had no recollection of the episode and wondered whether Whitlow was confusing it with another event or whether he was with Whitlow on that occasion. Naval records do not resolve the matter. After being told about Whitlow's recollection by the Globe, Kerry discussed the matter with Whitlow and said he still doesn't remember it.

But Kerry does recall a harrowing incident, which he has never previously publicly discussed, in which he said a crew member shot and killed a Vietnamese boy of perhaps 12 years of age.

A member of Kerry's crew announced he was shooting, and the air filled with the ack-ack-ack of gunfire. The rounds blasted into a sampan, hurling the child into the rice paddy. The mother screamed as the flimsy craft began to sink, and Kerry, shining a searchlight, yelled, "Cease fire! Cease fire!"

Kerry said his crew rescued the mother, took her aboard the Navy vessel for questioning, and left the child behind. Due to the dangerous location, and the possibility that the gunfire had drawn the notice of Viet Cong, Kerry never had a chance to see whether the woman was hiding weaponry in the sunken boat, and does not know to this day whether his crew faced a real threat.

"It is one of those terrible things, and I'll never forget, ever, the sight of that child," Kerry said. "But there was nothing that anybody could have done about it. It was the only instance of that happening.

"It angered me," Kerry said. "But, look, the Viet Cong used women and children." He said there might have been a satchel containing explosives. "Who knows if they had -- under the rice -- a satchel, and if we had come along beside them they had thrown the satchel in the boat. ... So it was a terrible thing, but I've never thought we were somehow at fault or guilty. There wasn't anybody in that area that didn't know you don't move at night, that you don't go out in a sampan on the rivers, and there's a curfew."

The details of the episode are murky, however, because none of Kerry's crewmates remembers it the way Kerry does. The closest recollection comes from William Zaladonis, a crewmate on No. 44 who vividly recalls killing a 15-year-old boy, but does not remember a mother being rescued. "I myself took out a 15-year-old" when the crew came across a sampan in a free-fire zone, Zaladonis said. "It was all legitimate. We told them to stop. When we fired across the bow, people started jumping from the boat. At that time my officer, whoever it was, told me to open up on them, and I did. And there was one body still in the boat, a 15-year-old kid. But over there, 15-year-old kids were soldiers."

'Days of hell'


'Scorching flashes of tracer, red and deadly, come at you with terrifying suddenness that catches all by surprise...'

From a journal Kerry kept on his experiences in Vietnam. At top, a video still shows Kerry during the war. More from the journal






In any case, Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy put civilians at such high risk. So, on Jan. 22, 1969, Kerry and several dozen fellow skippers and officers traveled to Saigon to complain about the policy in an extraordinary meeting with Zumwalt and the overall commander of the war, General Creighton W. Abrams Jr. ''We were fighting the [free fire] policy very, very hard, to the point that many of the members were refusing to carry out orders on some of their missions, to the point where crews were starting to mutiny, [to] say, `I would not go back in the rivers again,''' Kerry recalled during a 1971 television appearance on the Dick Cavett Show.

But Kerry went back in the rivers. Indeed, it was after this meeting that he began his most deadly round of combat. Within days of the Saigon meeting, he joined a five-man crew on swift boat No. 94 on a series of missions in which he won the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, and two of his three Purple Hearts. Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta.

Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Delbert Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew.

The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."

On Feb. 20, 1969, Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh. According to a previously unreported Navy report on the battle, a two-boat patrol spotted three men on a riverbank who were wearing black pajamas and running and engaged them in a firefight. While not criticizing this engagement, the Navy report did challenge the decision of unnamed skippers to fire at other "targets of opportunity" in the area.

"Area seemed extremely prosperous and open to psyops action, minimum number of defensive and no offensive bunkers detected," the report said. The naval official who wrote the report concluded: "Future missions in this area should be oriented toward psyops rather than destruction."

The destruction included 40 sampans, 10 hut-style hootches, three bunkers, and 5,000 pounds of rice. The crews from two swift boats had expended more than 14,000 rounds of.50-caliber ammunition. No enemy casualties were reported.

In a recent interview, Kerry dismissed the report's questioning of firing at targets of opportunity. "The problem is ... three guys are ducking behind a bank, and you start taking arms fire," Kerry said. "At any place, at any time, anybody could turn around and kill you. That was the problem with the war."

Five days later Kerry's boat was on patrol when a supporting helicopter ran out of ammunition. Instead of retreating, Kerry turned his boat directly toward hidden snipers, then beached the boat, and ordered an assault party onshore. This was not standard procedure. The swift boat crews weren't trained to fight on the muddy landscape; their shoes were closer to deck wear than combat boots.

None of that deterred Kerry. With a second swift boat providing support, Medeiros and Kerry rushed ashore and found what they thought was a Viet Cong guerrilla inside a bunker. After Kerry sought a surrender, Medeiros threw a grenade. The two assumed an enemy had been killed, although Medeiros said he never saw the victim and wonders now whether it could have been an animal.

The next day Kerry's swift boat convoy detected five Viet Cong in the river. Some of them appeared to be dead, but they were actually playing dead in an effort to stall the swift boat crews. It was a trap, and the swift boats came under rocket fire from the shore. The crews managed to capture the five guerrillas and sped away.

On the following day, Feb. 27, Kerry's boat was nearly hit in a rocket attack, and a crew member was shot.

Ambush in the Mekong Delta

This exhausting and harrowing week was only the beginning for Kerry. On Feb. 28, 1969, Kerry's boat received word that a swift boat was being ambushed. As Kerry raced to the scene, his boat became another target, as a Viet Cong B-40 rocket blast shattered a window. Kerry could have ordered his crew to hit the enemy and run. But the skipper had a more aggressive reaction in mind. Beach the boat, Kerry ordered, and the craft's bow was quickly rammed upon the shoreline. Out of the bush appeared a teenager in a loin cloth, clutching a grenade launcher.

An enemy was just feet away, holding a weapon with enough firepower to blow up the boat. Kerry's forward gunner, Belodeau, shot and clipped the Viet Cong in the leg. Then Belodeau's gun jammed, according to other crewmates (Belodeau died in 1997). Medeiros tried to fire at the Viet Cong, but he couldn't get a shot off.

In an interview, Kerry added a chilling detail.

"This guy could have dispatched us in a second, but for ... I'll never be able to explain, we were literally face to face, he with his B-40 rocket and us in our boat, and he didn't pull the trigger. I would not be here today talking to you if he had," Kerry recalled. "And Tommy clipped him, and he started going [down.] I thought it was over."

Instead, the guerrilla got up and started running. "We've got to get him, make sure he doesn't get behind the hut, and then we're in trouble," Kerry recalled.

So Kerry shot and killed the guerrilla. "I don't have a second's question about that, nor does anybody who was with me," he said. "He was running away with a live B-40, and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it." Asked whether that meant Kerry shot the guerrilla in the back, Kerry said, "No, absolutely not. He was hurt, other guys were shooting from back, side, back. There is no, there is not a scintilla of question in any person's mind who was there [that] this guy was dangerous, he was a combatant, he had an armed weapon."

The crewman with the best view of the action was Frederic Short, the man in the tub operating the twin guns. Short had not talked to Kerry for 34 years, until after he was recently contacted by a Globe reporter. Kerry said he had "totally forgotten" Short was on board that day.

Short had joined Kerry's crew just two weeks earlier, as a last-minute replacement, and he was as green as the Arkansas grass of his home. He said he didn't realize that he should have carried an M-16 rifle, figuring the tub's machine guns would be enough. But as Kerry stood face to face with the guerrilla carrying the rocket, Short realized his predicament. With the boat beached and the bow tilted up, a guard rail prevented him from taking aim at the enemy. For a terrifying moment, the guerrilla looked straight at Short with the rocket.

Short believes the guerrilla didn't fire because he was too close and needed to be a suitable distance to hit the boat squarely and avoid ricochet debris. Short tried to protect his skipper.

"I laid in fire with the twin .50s, and he got behind a hootch," recalled Short. "I laid 50 rounds in there, and Mr. Kerry went in. Rounds were coming everywhere. We were getting fire from both sides of the river. It was a canal. We were receiving fire from the opposite bank, also, and there was no way I could bring my guns to bear on that."

Short said there is "no doubt" that Kerry saved the boat and crew. "That was a him-or-us thing, that was a loaded weapon with a shape charge on it. ... It could pierce a tank. I wouldn't have been here talking to you. I probably prayed more up that creek than a Southern Baptist church does in a month."

Charles Gibson, who served on Kerry's boat that day because he was on a one-week indoctrination course, said Kerry's action was dangerous but necessary. "Every day you wake up and say, `How the hell did we get out of that alive?"' Gibson said. "Kerry was a good leader. He knew what he was doing."

When Kerry returned to his base, his commanding officer, George Elliott, raised an issue with Kerry: the fine line between whether the action merited a medal or a court-martial.

"When [Kerry] came back from the well-publicized action where he beached his boat in middle of ambush and chased a VC around a hootch and ended his life, when [Kerry] came back and I heard his debrief, I said, `John, I don't know whether you should be court-martialed or given a medal, court-martialed for leaving your ship, your post,"' Elliott recalled in an interview.

"But I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that," Elliott said. A Silver Star, which the Navy said is its fifth-highest medal, commends distinctive gallantry in action.

Asked why he had raised the issue of a court-martial, Elliott said he did so "half tongue-in-cheek, because there was never any question I wanted him to realize I didn't want him to leave his boat unattended. That was in context of big-ship Navy -- my background. A C.O. [commanding officer] never leaves his ship in battle or anything else. I realize this, first of all, it was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three people there. On the other hand, on an operation some time later, down on the very tip of the peninsula, we had lost one boat and several men in a big operation, and they were hit by a lot more than two or three people."

Elliott stressed that he never questioned Kerry's decision to kill the Viet Cong, and he appeared in Boston at Kerry's side during the 1996 Senate race to back up that aspect of Kerry's action.

"I don't think they were exactly ready to court-martial him," said Wade Sanders, who commanded a swift boat that sometimes accompanied Kerry's vessel, and who later became deputy assistant secretary of the Navy. "I can only say from the certainty borne of experience that there must have been some rumbling about, `What are we going to do with this guy, he turned his boat,' and I can hear the words, `He endangered his crew.' But from our position, the tactic to take is whatever action is best designed to eliminate the enemy threat, which is what he did."

Indeed, the Silver Star citation makes clear that Kerry's performance on that day was both extraordinary and risky. "With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets," the citation says, Kerry "again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only 10 feet from the Viet Cong rocket position and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. ... The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lt. Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission."

Michael Bernique, who was revered as one of the gutsiest swift boat commanders, marveled at Kerry's brazen approach to battle. Bernique recalled how Kerry one day "went ashore in an area that I thought might be mined. I said, `Get the blankety-blank out of there.' John just shrugged his shoulders and left. John just was fearless.

"If you are asking, `Was he foolhardy?' -- he survived," Bernique said. "I don't recall anybody saying they didn't want to serve with him. I would not have worried about my back if John was with me."

Roy Hoffmann, who commanded the coastal division in which Kerry served, worried about Kerry, at least at the beginning. He said Kerry and some other skippers initially "had difficulty carrying out direct orders. You know, they were playing the cowboy a little bit. John Kerry was one of them. You don't go out on your own when you are given certain type of patrols, and we were having difficulty with that."

Hoffmann said the problem was corrected and he supported the actions on the day Kerry won the Silver Star. "It took guts, and I admire that," Hoffman said.

Leaving Vietnam

A couple of weeks later, on March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, wounding Kerry in the right arm, according to the citation written by Zumwalt. Guerrillas started firing on the boats from the shoreline. Kerry then realized that he had lost overboard a Green Beret who is identified only as "Rassman."

"The man was receiving sniper fire from both banks," according to Kerry's Bronze Star citation from that day. "Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service," Zumwalt's citation said.

Kerry had been wounded three times and received three Purple Hearts. Asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it. A shrapnel wound in his left arm gave Kerry pain for years. Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds.

"There were an awful lot of Purple Hearts -- from shrapnel, some of those might have been M-40 grenades," said Elliott, Kerry's commanding officer. "The Purple Hearts were coming down in boxes. Kerry, he had three Purple Hearts. None of them took him off duty. Not to belittle it, that was more the rule than the exception."

But Kerry thought he had seen and done enough. The rules, he said, allowed a thrice-wounded soldier to return to the United States immediately. So Kerry went to talk to Commodore Charles F. Horne, an administrative official and commander of the coastal squadron in which Kerry served. Horne filled out a document on March 17, 1969, that said Kerry "has been thrice wounded in action while on duty incountry Vietnam. Reassignment is requested ... as a personal aide in Boston, New York, or Wash., D.C. area."

The document notes that Kerry was "presently on full-duty status and available for reassignment."

Horne, in a telephone interview, said the transfer request was allowed under then-existing naval instructions and was "above board and proper." Transfer was not automatic and was subject to approval by the Bureau of Naval Personnel, he said.

"I never once in any way thought my decision was wrong," Horne said. "To get three Purple Hearts and not be killed is awesome."

Kerry, asked whether he is certain a rule enabled him to leave Vietnam after three Purple Hearts, responded: "Yep. Three and you're out."

For the past several weeks, Kerry's staff said it has been unable to come up with a Navy document to explain that assertion. On Friday, however, the National Archives provided the Globe with a Navy "instruction" document that formed the basis for Kerry's request. The instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic. It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." Because Kerry's wounds were not considered serious, his reassignment appears to have been made on an individual basis.

Moreover, the instruction makes clear that Kerry could have asked that any reassignment be waived.

The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer. He met with Horne, who agreed to forward the request, which Horne said probably ensured final approval. The Navy could not say how many other officers or sailors got a similar early release from combat, but it was unusual for anyone to have three Purple Hearts.

Kerry's early departure meant that he was leaving behind a crew that had suffered through many bloody battles with him. Worried that crew members would be killed, he arranged for them to receive a safer assignment. When one crew member, Medeiros, tried to stay, Kerry "came and talked to me and said, `I really would like you to go. ... I'd like to know you are safe, or safer."'

Then, at the beginning of April 1969, Kerry left Vietnam. "I thought it was time to tell the story of what was happening over there," Kerry said. "I was angry about what happened over there, I had clearly concluded how wrong it was."

By this point, five of Kerry's closest friends had died in combat, including Yale classmate Richard Pershing. Then, just days after Kerry left, another friend, Donald Droz -- a fellow skipper who had provided support for Kerry on the day he won the Silver Star -- died in a fiery ambush. Droz had an infant daughter.

The mounting losses made no sense to Kerry. The boats went up a river, showed th
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
Another "interesting" article on Kerry, from www.strategypage.com:

Certain Death, Purple Hearts and John Kerry
by James Dunnigan
March 2, 2004

Senator John Kerrys presidential campaign, naturally enough, brought attention to his Vietnam military service. While in Vietnam (from December '68 to April '69), Kerry commanded a river patrol boat in the Mekong Delta. He was wounded three times and won a Silver and Bronze star for his combat activities. Because of his wounds, he requested and received three Purple Heart medals and invoked Navy rule 1300.39 to get sent home early. The 1300.39 rule stated that an officer receiving two wounds that required hospitalization, or three wounds of any severity, could request a reassignment, which "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." At the time, these requests were usually granted, and the officer was allowed to leave Vietnam early. The marines had a similar rule, used during the battle for Khe Shan in early 1968. For several months, the marine base of Khe Shan was under siege, and heavy fire. The marines established a policy whereby anyone who was lightly wounded three times, got to leave the embattled base. Naturally, any marine that was seriously wounded got evacuated to a hospital.

During the Vietnam war, American troops were wounded 352,000 times. But 43 percent of those were "light wounds," that were typically treated within the unit, and often the soldier went right back to work. All three of Kerrys wounds were of this sort, although one of them required that he take it easy for two days. Some 13 percent of the wounds were fatal, often instantly. Another 21 percent were serious, and left the soldier permanently disabled. But 23 percent were serious wounds that eventually healed with no permanent damage. Most of these were what troops called "Million Dollar Wounds." That means you were banged up badly enough to get sent home, but not permanently hurt.

The navy policy of turning three light wounds into a "Million Dollar Wound" can be traced to similar policies developed during World War II to avoid serious morale problems. The air war in Europe turned out to be quite bloody, and aircrews soon did the math and calculated that they had a near zero chance of surviving if they kept flying bombing missions over Nazi occupied Europe. So the brass established a system where, once a man had flown a number of missions that gave him a 50 percent chance of surviving, he would be transferred to a less lethal job (often as instructors for new aircrews). No such policy was adapted for infantry troops, even though their job was nearly as lethal, in the long run, as was being in a bomber crew. But the infantryman's chances varied considerably depending on which division he was in. Moreover, the infantry had already established informal policies that got men out of action before they went mad from the stress. The navy had nothing as lethal as the heavy bomber missions, although service in submarines were a high risk job. Submarine crewmen were watched carefully for the effects of stress from two many combat cruises.

When the Korean War came along in 1950, the public uproar over reservists (many of whom were World War II veterans) being called up to fight in another long war led to another new policy. This was the "13 month tour of duty." In past wars, you were "in for the duration" (until victory, your death, or a Million Dollar Wound.) Rather than just apply the 13th month rule to combat troops, it was applied to everyone. The rule was revived during the Vietnam war, and, as we see with the navy's "three wound" policy, there were additional ways for a hard hit combat veteran to get cut some slack.

While these policies to limit combat exposure were popular, they did not appeal to everyone. In the infantry, especially elite infantry units (about ten percent of the total), it was not unusual for troops to volunteer to stay in for Vietnam for two or three tours. Moreover, men in infantry units develop strong personal bonds with each other, and are often eager to get back to their buddies after being wounded. There's a strong sense of mutual obligation among combat troops that produces this reaction. But the average soldier would take any opportunity to get out of combat. Most troops counted the days until their 13 month tour was up. At Khe Shan, marines who got the three wounds could leave without losing the respect of their buddies, although it was considered bad form to put in for a Purple Heart medal for each of those three light wounds. Among combat troops, one Purple Heart per war or campaign was considered sufficient, and many light wounds were never turned into Purple Hearts. One famous Bill Mauldin "Willie and Joe" World War II cartoon shows a ragged GI with a light wound standing in front of a table, behind which a medic offers him a Purple Heart. The GI says, "I already got one, can I have a couple of Asperin instead?"
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
So, the smear begins.
No it began when he started the fiction about our war crimes in vietnam were everyday occurances. That bastard gave GI's giving their life a bad name Feeding misinformation to liberal hippies/weeders that then danced on their graves screaming Babykillers. The Vets I know would run his aS$ over if they saw him on the street.
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
Does it have to make any since, I was there with the 2-14 Golden Dragons, Sounds to me some body in high places was pushing to make Kerry a hero or make him look like one and then get him out, Men that get more than one purlpe heart put in for a purple heart cluster, It goes through the channels, Kerry doen't have a cluster, I heard last week on the radio that he was put in for the medal of honor but it didn't make it through, It was a joke and I didn't hear who put him in for it if they even knew, First time I had heard about that so who knows But I could care less what he did over there, I would like to punch him out for what he did over here, He thinks he dishonored the Viet nam vets but all he did was to dishonor himself and he has to live with that for the rest of his life
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: EXman
So, the smear begins.
No it began when he started the fiction about our war crimes in vietnam were everyday occurances. That bastard gave GI's giving their life a bad name Feeding misinformation to liberal hippies/weeders that then danced on their graves screaming Babykillers. The Vets I know would run his aS$ over if they saw him on the street.


oh really? this is a man who was brought up by a father who piloted in the service, respected the uniform so much he didn't participate in protests until he was officially a civ. did he scream baby killer? no. he is backed by his band of brothers, when bush had none. he went to war and did not turn back from danger when his country needed him, when bush used his familys privilidge to jump ahead in line to save his butt and even then couldn't take it seriously. and for a war he supported no less. maybe u should run your own @ss over.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: EXman
So, the smear begins.
No it began when he started the fiction about our war crimes in vietnam were everyday occurances. That bastard gave GI's giving their life a bad name Feeding misinformation to liberal hippies/weeders that then danced on their graves screaming Babykillers. The Vets I know would run his aS$ over if they saw him on the street.

:beer:;)
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
oh really? this is a man who was brought up by a father who piloted in the service, respected the uniform so much he didn't participate in protests until he was officially a civ. did he scream baby killer? no. he is backed by his band of brothers, when bush had none. he went to war and did not turn back from danger when his country needed him, when bush used his familys privilidge to jump ahead in line to save his butt and even then couldn't take it seriously. and for a war he supported no less. maybe u should run your own @ss over.

Is this a joke or what, What has Kerry's dad got to do with anything or did I miss something, Did you know Bush signed up to go to Nam
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
its very easy to sign up for nam after you've already ducked it, swiped another mans spot and sent him in your stead, and made damn sure u'd never be able to go, flying outdated planes, with too few hours.
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
its very easy to sign up for nam after you've already ducked it, swiped another mans spot and sent him in your stead, and made damn sure u'd never be able to go, flying outdated planes, with too few hours.

I think you should get your facts right, Every thing you typed is not true, Man take time and get it right, Swiped another mans spot, How did he do that, Outdated planes, F102?, Two few hours?,
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
"became a turncoat soon as he got back stateside"

Your statement is false.

When he returned from Vietnam he served out his enlistment.

He did not participate in protesting the war while he was in uniform.

Once he was an ordinary citizen he exercised his Constitutional right to petition the government about something he thought was wrong.
 

DoubleL

Golden Member
Apr 3, 2001
1,202
0
0
"became a turncoat soon as he got back stateside"

Your statement is false.

When he returned from Vietnam he served out his enlistment.

He did not participate in protesting the war while he was in uniform.

Once he was an ordinary citizen he exercised his Constitutional right to petition the government about something he thought was wrong.

Your statement is mosly falas to

I don't think he served out his full enlistment

He did protest the war while he was in uniform, Both US and Viet Cong, You can find that on the net

The Constitution does not give you the right to lie and if he didn't lie it doesn't protect you from war crimes
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: DoubleL
its very easy to sign up for nam after you've already ducked it, swiped another mans spot and sent him in your stead, and made damn sure u'd never be able to go, flying outdated planes, with too few hours.

I think you should get your facts right, Every thing you typed is not true, Man take time and get it right, Swiped another mans spot, How did he do that, Outdated planes, F102?, Two few hours?,

if you think its false...
prove it then.

he had too few hours to qualify for duty in vietnam, and the plane was outdated. simple facts.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,504
566
126
I have talked with a couple of Vietnam Vets that I work with and here is their take

1. He put himself in for the purple hearts and used it as an excuse to get out after only 4 months.

2. He returns home and betrays all of his fellow soldiers by
A. Calling all US Soldiers Murders - In effect calling them criminals
B. Claiming attrocities
C. Marching under the North Vietnamese Flag
D. Marching in tattered uniform with communist writings on them
E. Disgracing the Iwo Jima Memorial on the cover of his book
F. Throwing away his medals - medals easily replaced for a US Senator
G. Disgracing the memories of those who have died for their country - regardless of the reason their government sent them

When the soldiers returned from Vietnam, they were reviled, spat upon and called baby killers. Can you image a 20 year old who was drafted and served his country honorably coming home to this? What does this do to a man?

I firmly believe if you want to protest the war -fine
I firmly believe if you want to protest the government - fine
But
NEVER EVER Protest the soldier.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
1. He put himself in for the purple hearts and used it as an excuse to get out after only 4 months.

well considering your first point is blatently wrong, how good are the rest? he was serving for atleast 2 years overseas by the time he got out. he did not march in his uniform. and he did not protest while serving, he waited until he was officially out. he grew up in a family where his father was a test pilot, he knows plenty about respecting soldiers. apparently you believe walking in lock step with macnamara who now regrets the war and the presidents who all knew it was a pointless war behind closed doors like a lemming.

you have to wonder where people are getting their information. talk radio and Sampley? and his veterans against kerry? just remember, this is the man that smeared McCain's vietnam record during the 2000 election.


"Sampley ... accused McCain of being a weak-minded coward who had escaped death by collaborating with the enemy. Sampley claimed that McCain had first been compromised by the Vietnamese, then recruited by the Soviets.

In 1992, Sampley wrote a long article that portrayed McCain as a "Manchurian candidate," who had betrayed America to the North Vietnamese and then enlisted as a secret Communist agent. But it wasn't until seven years later that the celebrated Navy pilot and ex-POW found out how much damage such smears could inflict. After McCain declared his presidential candidacy in 1999, Sampley revived the "Manchurian candidate" smear as a convenient weapon for the Senator's political enemies. Some of them, including the prominent conservative Paul Weyrich and Richard Mellon Scaife's Newsmax Web site, didn't hesitate to pick up the slimy stuff generated by Sampley. The fringe assault on McCain, amplified by the likes of Weyrich and talk radio, caused grave injury to his campaign during the pivotal South Carolina primary.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/02/10/kerry_smear/


as for the other accusations that he was anti american, anti soldier, they have no merit, as ussual with smear campaigns.

Insinuations of treason are being revived for deployment against Kerry, who happens to be a close friend of McCain (Kerry defended McCain against Sampley, denouncing him as a "stupid ass" in print). The simplest way to tar Kerry as an antiwar extremist -- and indict him for unpatriotic betrayal in the eyes of many vets -- is to pair him with "Hanoi Jane" Fonda. On Monday, Rush Limbaugh published a photograph of Fonda at what appears to be an antiwar rally, under the headline "John Kerry With Hanoi Jane in September, 1970." And indeed, a blurry face about two rows behind her does resemble the young Kerry.

But Limbaugh, like so many who attack Kerry for working with Fonda against the war, distorts reality. Fonda didn't travel to Hanoi until August 1972. Obviously that was two years after the September 1970 rally and, more important, a year after she joined demonstrations led by Kerry and his fellow vets in Vietnam Veterans Against the War. By the time Fonda visited Hanoi, Kerry was running for Congress in Boston. There's no evidence that he worked with Fonda after her notorious trip. (If Monday's rant indicates Limbaugh's state of mind, he is absolutely unhinged by the prospect of renewed debate over Vietnam. Might his hysteria have anything to do with his own embarrassing escape from the draft?)

Searching for proof of Kerry's alleged anti-American radicalism has frustrated his more intelligent adversaries. The current issue of the Weekly Standard carries a windy account of this ongoing quest by David Skinner, who dug up a copy of the New Soldier, a 1971 antiwar volume that carried Kerry's byline. Skinner offers a long, dull account of his effort to find a copy of this minor, somewhat moldy period piece -- and when he does, the results are anticlimactic. "Anti-Kerry oppo researchers will be disappointed to learn that Kerry wrote very little of the book," he reveals at long last. "It reprints his [1971] Senate testimony and includes a brief afterword from him." Skinner can't manage to work up much righteous anger. At the end, he complains that in the midst of the movement's turmoil, Kerry "was able to have his cake and eat it, too, becoming the establishment, patriotic face of a radical, anti-patriotic movement."

Please allow me to translate: The Weekly Standard found nothing because there was nothing to find. But that won't stop the desperate, screaming smears, escalating in volume as Kerry stumps toward his party's nomination.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,504
566
126
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
1. He put himself in for the purple hearts and used it as an excuse to get out after only 4 months.

well considering your first point is blatently wrong, how good are the rest? he was serving for atleast 2 years overseas by the time he got out. he did not march in his uniform. and he did not protest while serving, he waited until he was officially out. he grew up in a family where his father was a test pilot, he knows plenty about respecting soldiers. apparently you believe walking in lock step with macnamara who now regrets the war and the presidents who all knew it was a pointless war behind closed doors like a lemming.

you have to wonder where people are getting their information. talk radio and Sampley? and his veterans against kerry? just remember, this is the man that smeared McCain's vietnam record during the 2000 election.

So how long was he in country? Did he not use that excuse to get out early? Did he not leave the Navy 6mos early? Did he not wear a uniform while protesting? What were those clothes?

I am not saying " in military" but "in country" every account shows four months.

Why doesn't Kerry release all of his military and medical records?

 

SViscusi

Golden Member
Apr 12, 2000
1,200
8
81
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
1. He put himself in for the purple hearts and used it as an excuse to get out after only 4 months.

well considering your first point is blatently wrong, how good are the rest? he was serving for atleast 2 years overseas by the time he got out. he did not march in his uniform. and he did not protest while serving, he waited until he was officially out. he grew up in a family where his father was a test pilot, he knows plenty about respecting soldiers. apparently you believe walking in lock step with macnamara who now regrets the war and the presidents who all knew it was a pointless war behind closed doors like a lemming.

you have to wonder where people are getting their information. talk radio and Sampley? and his veterans against kerry? just remember, this is the man that smeared McCain's vietnam record during the 2000 election.

Why doesn't Kerry release all of his military and medical records?

Why should he, there's absolutely no questions about his record. If there were they would have been brought up many years ago.

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
1. He put himself in for the purple hearts and used it as an excuse to get out after only 4 months.

well considering your first point is blatently wrong, how good are the rest? he was serving for atleast 2 years overseas by the time he got out. he did not march in his uniform. and he did not protest while serving, he waited until he was officially out. he grew up in a family where his father was a test pilot, he knows plenty about respecting soldiers. apparently you believe walking in lock step with macnamara who now regrets the war and the presidents who all knew it was a pointless war behind closed doors like a lemming.

you have to wonder where people are getting their information. talk radio and Sampley? and his veterans against kerry? just remember, this is the man that smeared McCain's vietnam record during the 2000 election.

So how long was he in country? Did he not use that excuse to get out early? Did he not leave the Navy 6mos early? Did he not wear a uniform while protesting? What were those clothes?

I am not saying " in military" but "in country" every account shows four months.

Why doesn't Kerry release all of his military and medical records?

he served two tours. the first aboard a missle frigate. do you really think they just drafted him and shipped him straight over and gave him command of troops? http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml