Interesting question: does moral outrage by the left depend more on the personalities involved than the circumstances?

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Would the left care about Palestinians if the Israelis weren't Jews?

Harvard president Lawrence Summers recently criticized those on his campus who speak in the name of human rights but selectively censure Israel while ignoring much greater problems in the Middle East. He described the divestment campaign against Israel on his campus as anti-Semitic ''in effect if not intent.'' But human rights (and media) attention is often disproportionate to the severity or urgency of human conflicts. What determines their focus is not mainly anti-Semitism. Nor is it the level of horror. It is the racial, religious, and cultural character of the perpetrators, not the victims, that determines the response of Westerners.

An instructive case is Sudan. Atrocities there exceed every other world horror. For 10 years the blacks of South Sudan have been victims of an onslaught that has taken more than 2 million lives. Colin Powell calls it ''the worst human rights nightmare on the planet.'' Yet with the important exception of the black Christian community here, there has been a disturbingly muted reaction from well-known American human rights champions. The media cover the deaths in Sudan only occasionally.

Do rights activists and editorialists care more for Palestinians than for blacks? Surely not. It is the nature of the conflict, I propose, not the level of horror, that determines the response of Westerners.

In Khartoum, a Taliban-like Muslim regime is waging a self-declared jihad on African Christians and followers of tribal faiths in South Sudan. Non-Arab African Muslims are also targeted for devastation. Two million people have been killed - more than in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia, Haiti, Rwanda, and Burundi combined. Tens of thousands have been displaced, and 100,000, according to the US Committee on Refugees, forcibly starved.

Western lack of interest is all the more stunning as Khartoum's onslaught has rekindled the trade in black slaves, halted (mostly) a century ago by the British abolitionists. Arab militias storm African villages, kill the men, and enslave the women and children. Accounts by journalists and others depict the horror. In these pogroms, after the men are slaughtered, the women, girls, and boys are gang raped - or they have their throats slit for resisting. The terrorized survivors are marched northward and distributed to Arab masters, the women to become concubines, the girls domestics, the boys goat herders.

It is hard to explain why victims of slavery and slaughter are virtually ignored by American progressives. How can it be that there is no storm of indignation at Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch, which, though they rushed to Jenin to investigate false reports of Jews massacring Arabs, care so much less about Arab-occupied Juba, South Sudan's black capital? How can it be that they have not raised the roof about Khartoum's black slaves? Neither has there been a concerted effort by the press to pressure American administrations to intervene. Nor has the socialist left spoken of liberating the slaves or protecting black villages from pogroms, even though Wall Street helps bankroll Khartoum's oil business, which finances the slaughter.

What is this silence about? Surely it is not because we don't care about blacks. Progressives champion oppressed black peoples daily. My hypothesis is this: to predict what the human rights community (and the media) focus on, look not at the oppressed; look instead at the party seen as the oppressor. Imagine the media coverage and the rights groups' reaction if it were ''whites'' enslaving blacks in Sudan. Having the ''right'' oppressor would change everything.

Alternatively, imagine the ''wrong'' oppressor: Suppose that Arabs, not Jews, shot Palestinians in revolt. In 1970 (''Black September''), Jordan murdered tens of thousands of Palestinians in two days, yet we saw no divestment campaigns, and we wouldn't today. This selectivity (at least in the United States, does not come from the hatred of Jews. It is '' a human rights complex '' - and is not hard to understand. The human rights community, composed mostly of compassionate white people, feels a special duty to protest evil done by those who are like ''us.''

''Not in my name'' is the worthy response of moral people. South African whites could not be allowed to represent ''us.'' But when we see evil done by ''others,'' we tend to shy away. Though we claim to have a single standard for all human conduct, we don't. We fear the charge of hypocrisy: We Westerners after all, had slaves. We napalmed Vietnam. We live on Native American land. Who are we to judge ''others?'' And so we don't stand for all of humanity.

The biggest victims of this complex are not the Jews who are obsessively criticized but the victims of genocide, enslavement, religious persecution, and ethnic cleansing who are murderously ignored: the Christian slaves of Sudan, the Muslim slaves of Mauritania, the Tibetans, the Kurds, the Christians in Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt.

Seeking expiation instead of universal justice means ignoring the sufferings of these victims of non-Western aggression and making relatively more of the suffering of those caught in confrontation with people like ''us.'' If the Israelis are being ''profiled'' because they are like ''us,'' the slaves of Sudan are ignored because their masters' behavior has nothing to do with us.

In the United States it is not predominantly anti-Semitism that causes the human rights community to single Israel out for criticism. It is rather our failure to apply to all nations the standards to which we hold ourselves. The effect, as Summers correctly said, is anti-Semitic. But it is also the abandonment of those around the world in the worst of circumstances whose oppressions we find beside the point.

 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Damn good point, but I foresee this topic scrolling away into oblivion...

I still don't understand ANYONE, left or right, sympathizing with terrorists. :confused:
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Very interesting and right on point, I'd say. I think the locale has something to do with it as well -- Africa is easy to overlook because we have limited trade, limited travel, and limited contact overall in relation to western Europe or perhaps Japan.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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The article makes a good point, that is, why aren't we talking about these other places and atrocities?

It's kinda strange though, why do you bring up this atrocity in context as a bash against the "left" instead of as an important humanitarian issue?
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
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very good article

although to care about these "other" atrocities u'd have to be informed (at least I cant say I have heard much or anything about these other atrocities) So I wonder why the media "keeping quiet" aboit them...
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Colin Powell calls it ''the worst human rights nightmare on the planet
Yes, but no one in the 'right-leaning' administration is proposing we do anything about it.

The media cover the deaths in Sudan only occasionally.
The media is not 'liberal or left-center'. It is essentially a corportate entity. Accordingly, they do not aspire to deliver broad, sufficiently-detailed reports of world events b/c you can't get in enough commercials and the general perception is that most Americans only care about events affecting them or events relating to someone famous.

It is the nature of the conflict, I propose, not the level of horror, that determines the response of Westerners.
While the nature of the conflict certainly matters, your analysis is essentially flawed b/c you fail to account for our culture which is filled with diversions and self-interest, while most rely on popular media to provide information on world events (most of which America often shows little interest).

In Khartoum, a Taliban-like Muslim regime is waging a self-declared jihad on African Christians and followers of tribal faiths in South Sudan. Non-Arab African Muslims are also targeted for devastation. Two million people have been killed - more than in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia, Haiti, Rwanda, and Burundi combined.
You would be better served using international NGOs for information. Th actual death toll in this region is certainly staggering but comparing it to Balkan conflicts as well as other African travesties is quite misinformed.

Progressives champion oppressed black peoples daily. My hypothesis is this: to predict what the human rights community (and the media) focus on, look not at the oppressed; look instead at the party seen as the oppressor.
Progressives champion a myriad of causes worldwide. The press and the public's attention for world conflicts is quite fickle. The progressive community is not. Don't mistake your lack of knowledge of NGOs and their work throughout the world for some conspiracy against causes you deem worthy of more attention.

The biggest victims of this complex are not the Jews who are obsessively criticized but the victims of genocide, enslavement, religious persecution, and ethnic cleansing who are murderously ignored: the Christian slaves of Sudan, the Muslim slaves of Mauritania, the Tibetans, the Kurds, the Christians in Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt.
Once again your perception not reality. Ignorance leads many to levy a criticism at Jews when the criticism should be directed at Likud. Ignorance leads many to levy criticism at Palestinians when the true offender is Arafat and his minions. We hold Castro to a different standard than Jiang b/c we are fickle and hypocrites. Turkey is a hair's worth of difference from Iraq when it comes to treatment of Kurds. Many more Muslims have suffered in Indonesia than Christians. In Jakarta, there's a large Catholic cathedral that is filled every week directly across the street from one of the largest mosques in the world. In general, oppressed people throughout the world are ignored. Why one group garners concern while other atrocities are forgotten goes far beyond Summers' pet peeve and your hypothesis.

In the United States it is not predominantly anti-Semitism that causes the human rights community to single Israel out for criticism. It is rather our failure to apply to all nations the standards to which we hold ourselves. The effect, as Summers correctly said, is anti-Semitic. But it is also the abandonment of those around the world in the worst of circumstances whose oppressions we find beside the point.
Your first statement is a false premise. The human rights community is quite diverse and by no means monolithic. Israel is easily singled out b/c Sharon is often doing something (supposedly in response to some other event or new information) and the press believes America cares about those events more than other regions of the world. Your second sentence is also false. We do not hold ourselves to a particular standard even though we often ascribe the violation of some standard to those who we dislike. If we ever meet the standard embodied by our Declaration of Independence and Constitution, THEN your statement would be correct.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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...no one in the 'right-leaning' administration is proposing we do anything about it.

Our administration is concentrating on protecting our asses from terrorism, which isn't a threat from Sudan. The administration's biggest concern isn't human rights. That pretense is what guides the squawking from the left, yet they have NOTHING to say about the much bigger Sudan issue! Maybe Lawrence Summers DOES have a point!


The media is not 'liberal or left-center'
  • rolleye.gif
Undeniable Voting Patterns Of Media Elite. Next you'll be telling us Hollywood isn't 'liberal or left-center' either!
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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It's kinda strange though, why do you bring up this atrocity in context as a bash against the "left" instead of as an important humanitarian issue?

You're correct, that this is a humanitarian issue, not of just the left or right, but that's the context the article is written in. If it were written with the focus being on the "right" (and by all means i think they're worthy of an article just as long if not longer than this one) i would have put that in the thread title instead.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Our administration is concentrating on protecting our asses from terrorism, which isn't a threat from Sudan. The administration's biggest concern isn't human rights. That pretense is what guides the squawking from the left, yet they have NOTHING to say about the much bigger Sudan issue! Maybe Lawrence Summers DOES have a point!

You basically prove my point. For some of us, human rights are always the biggest concern. Many American administrations dealt with significant threats, domestic and foreign, without singing one chord choruses like Bush. America is consumed with whatever interests us at the moment. The threat from terrorism is not new and the world did not shift its axis on 9/11/01. Regardless, the thread was about the etiology of moral outrage and one person's biased opinion that left-of-center individuals and groups lack a true moral compass.

East Timor, Tibet, Chile, Sudan, Ethiopia, South Africa, Kosovo, Bosnia, Congo, Rwanda, Sri Lanka, Peru, El Salvador, Burma, and many other conflicts have been served dutifully by a myriad of NGOs for decades. My criticism was directed at the thread originator who is either ignorant of the facts or chosing to ignore them and our current administration which bellows about human rights for Kurds (Iraqi NOT Turkish), Cubans, and the Sudanese while rejecting human rights as a basis for negotiating trade relations. Furthermore, many in the current administration walked the corridors of DC in the 70s and 80s under previous administrations that considered human rights an afterthought.

Now does Larry Summers have a point that SOME people are so enraptured with the Palestinian cause that they see fault in every Israeli action? Of course, he's right. But his criticism is no more valid than those that criticize the tacit support the US gives for Israeli "incursions". Be honest, pretend 9/11 never happened (which is a pleasant thought), Saddam is still an arse but he's messing with Iran, Syria invests more money trying to clean its water supply than supporting terrorists launching mortars into northern Israel, and gas is cheap(er). We wouldn't bat an eye at Sharon's dealings with Arafat. The people of the occupied terrorities (non-Israeli settlers) would still lack water, security, and freedom of movement. But instead of "troubled by Israeli actions" or "deeply concerned" you wouldn't hear a peep out of the US except some low level lackey giving lip service.

Summers definitely has a point. But you are wrong. Sudan is a much bigger issue b/c you apparently care about it. For those who work with humanitarian causes it's just another stop on the world tour of inhumanity. As for your hero at Harvard . . .
The measurements of the costs of health impairing pollution depends on the foregone earnings from increased morbidity and mortality. From this point of view a given amount of health impairing pollution should be done in the country with the lowest cost, which will be the country with the lowest wages. I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that.
Dump toxic wastes on poor people, yeah that's moral leadership.

I've always though that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted, their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City.
Umm, OK.

After the memo became public in February 1992, Brazil's then-Secretary of the Environment Jose Lutzenburger wrote back to Summers: "Your reasoning is perfectly logical but totally insane... Your thoughts [provide] a concrete example of the unbelievable alienation, reductionist thinking, social ruthlessness and the arrogant ignorance of many conventional 'economists' concerning the nature of the world we live in... If the World Bank keeps you as vice president it will lose all credibility. To me it would confirm what I often said... the best thing that could happen would be for the Bank to disappear."







 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
My criticism was directed at the thread originator who is either ignorant of the facts or chosing to ignore them and our current administration which bellows about human rights for Kurds (Iraqi NOT Turkish), Cubans, and the Sudanese while rejecting human rights as a basis for negotiating trade relations.

You're getting angry at me for posting the thread and it's title, when i didn't write the article and merely refer to its contents? I think your criticism is misdirected, my friend.

The thread title does a pretty good job IMHO summarizing the article, it's not my problem that you don't like the contents of it. My summary description of the article != an endorsement of the point of view it contains.

As for "ignorant of the facts or choosing to ignore them and our current administration," i don't see where i said anything about the current administration, or any adminstration for that reason. You're committing the logical fallacy of begging the question... inferring that because i posted an article critical of the left, that i must be saying that there's no basis for being critical of those on the right for the same reason. Well, the article didn't talk about the conservative side, but rather the progressive side, thus the thread title. Yes, it may well seem like the conservative side is getting a bit of a free pass, but then again, not a whole lot of people (myself included) have very high expectations for them on this subject anyway, so that's just how the cookie crumbles.

And as for your points about the article, i daresay the progressive movement would be well-served to acknowledge and consider the grain of truth contained in some of the points made in the article and stop the reflexive "well, the conservatives do it too!" chant. But i suppose that would be too much to ask for a little bit of humble self-reflection by those who claim the moral high ground on the issue of human rights.

As for your NGO's, the ones which do the best job out there where they're needed belong neither to right nor left, but rather are faith-based and are more concerned with the spiritual than the political sphere, so trying to claim them for your own won't carry water.